Hey
Offline I was looking into this DVD which disproved the existence of a Christ, as I was bored, and I followed a few links to this site. None of it is anything new to me, as I've known many, many different philosophies and schools of thought on every which thing.
I am actually a pagan, which is just a summary term to describe a variety of different practices. Basically, I believe in nothing other than nature reverence and taking care of the earth, following natural law (which isn't really set of rules, but an absence of any, in a way.)
It's all very obvious, though. Of course, Christ is a remnant from pagan traditions. The Catholic church is full of pagan symbolism, to name one. Of course, God doesn't exist as such. Jesus wasn't a man or a god. That issue is really irrelevant to me.
I am not certain on one point of your way of thought, though. It would seem to be the height of banality to try to say that nothing exists in the universe outside of our senses and immediate perceptions. I am a man of science, which I believe in above all else. It is quite the opposite of nothing existing - indeed, everything exists in the universe. There is an unlimited amount of energy and space in the universe. Unlimited amount of creative power and potential. There are many dimensions, all inhabited by energy that we are still trying to classify.
No God? No Allah? No big bearded guy in the sky? No men with wings flying around in space? Undoubtedly. There is no question that such foolishness does not exist.
No anything? There is no way that is true. I think that the hatred of ridiculous religions like Christianity, blinds some to the possibilities of the universe. I hope I am not being too forward in saying so.
Anyways, that is my introduction. Thank you for having me here.
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Hey, Vito, welcome.
It seems you might be confusing atheism with a form of solipsism. Or perhaps there is a bit of confusion with ontology (that which is) with epistemology (how we know about that which is). Many of us here believe essentially as you do, that there is an objective universe that is inconceivably huge that exists well beyond our perceptions, but is entirely natural in its existence. However, many of us will also say that our knowledge of that objective universe is restricted to that which we can perceive, and rationalize. (Here, I mean, 'put into a rational framework,' not, 'create a post-hoc excuse.')
In any case, there are all kinds of atheists here. Our only common factor is: we don't believe god exists. Our own models of the universe might differ, but we all agree there is no room for god. (Except the theists here. Unless it's Luminon, who is labeled a theist, but is really an atheist. Or Eloise, who is labeled a theist, but her theism is so far removed from theism, it is almost non-existent.)
In any case, welcome. Enjoy your stay. Jump in and join the fray. (Hey! I rhymed! Ain't that special.)
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Welcome to the forum.
I agree. Certainly, there are things that exist outside of what is directly perceivable with our senses. We do not dispute that. Of course, there are things we don't know. There are things we may never know.
Unlimited? I don't think I agree with that; I'm pretty sure our current observations indicates that there is only a finite amount of energy and space.
I think I agree with that too.
Thank you for joining the party.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Your broad take on reality won't get you into any trouble here and I'd say you'd find plenty of folk to agree with you. I'd agree with much of what you say but I'd contend the points of unlimited creativity and energy. Not sure if the universe could be defined as creative and you'd think the universe's energy has a value of some sort. Like the other chaps here I cheerfully reach a point of accepting a lack of understanding without the need to install gap god to make me feel better or to erase the ingrained fear of the psycho-god threats.
Not sure too many people here would argue there is no anything. I think most of us accept there's something - lots of something - but that ultimately we view it with a finite understanding and limited tools.
Do your beliefs really constitute paganism?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
ciarin might be able to weigh in on that, if she ever discovers this thread. my understanding is she would say her beliefs constitute way more than respect for nature or the vague notion there might be "something" out there.
"ciarin"...i'm sorry, but i always thought that looked like the name of a potency drug...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Welcome!
Why call yourself a pagan? Usually that has some spiritual and supernatural baggage associated with it.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Leave the baggage behind and you will find life so much easier: I promise!
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Sounds like something more palatable than a lot of things.
As long as there is no imaginary personal contact with a divine being it may be ok, or not, he hasn't said enough..yet.
/end Ambiguity
Welcome.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin