A slightly unpleasant occurrence
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I'm not really good with girls. I'm 29 years old and over my whole life I've only had two girlfriends, and both of those relationships only lasted a month. Recently I was really hitting it off with this girl at work. We really seemed to have a lot in common. The only problem that I could see was that she referred to herself as strongly Christian. I suppose at this point I should have mentioned that I was an atheist, but she didn't ask what I believed and I didn't volunteer.
I was thinking about asking her out today, but before I could she told me this story about her best friend of 7 years, and how people sometimes think that they are a couple(kind of random, I know). She then proceeded to tell me that they weren't a couple because he reminded her of her brother who she claims is an ass, and because he was an atheist and that she wouldn't date an atheist.
At this point my plan to ask her out went down the drain. I suppose maybe at this point I should have said something about being an atheist, or at least made some kind of snazzy remark, but I'm not really quick at coming up with stuff like that so I said nothing.
Later on she became annoyed with me. She was changing the lining in a garbage can and the bag ripped. She said the bag had it coming because it tried to grope her. I said nothing at first not really sure how to respond, but after a seconded I said that it must have been a real dush bag. This seemed to make her angry for some reason.
I think that maybe she was trying to flirt with me and I didn't respond in the right way. I really don't understand girl that well. Is this experience the way I described it normal? Were my responses to her appropriate? Any other insight and advice on this matter would also be appreciated.
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Heya RatDog...
First off, I have to say that the "Douche-Bag" line was pretty funny... the problem is not you.
Here's the deal goomba... Let her go... She might be cute now, But When people are this humorless and self-righteous they usually follow a specific pattern...
Just wait until she pumps out a few diaper filling life-wreckers because the Lord told her to be fruitful and multiply... Her Belly will look like day old lasagna, not to mention her keister is bound to test the limits of her Walmart purchased stretch pants... and unless you prefer being the focus of her delusional projection after she realizes deep down that the uptight, fridgid, bible thumping estrogen ridden nightmare she has become hasn't had an orgasm since she muttered the words "I Do"... and YOU find yourself so miserable in your existence with this knuckle dragging troll that you'd be willing to exchange that very moment in time for the starring role in an Al Queda beheadng video... Consider this...
This scenario is not uncommon... Yet like Lemmings, due to our biological urges we waddle off the Matrimonial precipice en mass ... Most of us can see it coming, yet we do nothing to avoid it...
Seriously... Go to Church...and you can see FIRST HAND what I am reffering to to... there is a disproportionate amount of these morbidly obese, sexually repressed angry dr. Phil watching man haters... who project their unhappiness at the poor saps who married them... and they spend their lives bickering and dissassociated... and replace intimacy and affection for carboydrates... They will invariably spend their lives delusionally believing that sacrificing any libidinous persuits in this life will be reawrded with eternal Bliss...(Good Luck with that, You chior singing Fatsos)
Here's my advice... Go to places where rational people gather... Perhaps find yourself a nice Atheist gal who, having shed the bonds of guilt has aquired the skill to pleasure your shwantz to the point where you'll have to pull the bedsheets out of your ass... and NEVER be ashamed of who you are, how you feel, or what you believe...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
Where do you live? That could be a factor...
You should consider looking around for some secular meetups in the area.
As ineffective as it often is, I could even suggest trying online. You can usually filter matches for religion, and that goes a long way.
Meet some girls, have some dates (if you can afford it). Most of them will be nutters, but for the one in a hundred that aren't- if you really can't find any the old fashioned way- it's almost worth the 99 other bad dates. Depends on how much you dislike bad dates.
One thing I can't advise strongly enough, though, is moving. Single best thing you'll ever do if you're stuck in a hole.
Where have I seen this movie before?! Oh man! Life is so ironic! It as a dark sense of humor too!!
Well RatDog! Just go for her!!! Look her in the face and tell her about your feelings plain and honestly!
Say you would very much like to know her better because you think she is a very interesting girl. Say you are an atheist but that doesn't change anything for you, beliefs are personal and you respect them.
If you don't tell her nothing you will spend the rest of the days regretting that you didn't even tried!
Have some guts and do it. Sit back and WAIT for her move. If she says no right then, she may say yes latter... just don't insist...
This is all great, until we get to this part:
1. Dating hard core Christians is a generally bad idea- there are rare cases where it can work if neither person really cares, but it is definitely more likely to ruin a relationship (and in the case of a work relationship, cause dangerous drama).
2. This is a work relationship- again. All the more reason to make sure it isn't doomed from the start- she's a co-worker, and if it's almost certainly going to fail and cause resentment, it's a better idea to go for a girl with better odds.
3. He'll only be regretful if he doesn't find somebody better- and given the chances of this ending in fiery glory, or worse- lasting in misery- just about anybody is better.
I don't, and I can't say I know many people who do, pine after those I didn't ask out for good reason. Sometimes the grapes really *are* sour.
See what Rich said above... I mostly agree... with the exception of his strange phobia of procreation.
Sounds familiar though I have dated several the relationships don't last long, I think my longest relationship was almost a year, but they probably averaged 2 weeks to 2 months lol. If you are open to dating the religious it's not that hard to get started, I just have the problem of turning them down with a look because, well I'm sick of religion.
Women give signals that are easily detected if you have a clear head and analyze a bit more than just tryng to throw your own signals. If you seem to make them laugh a lot without trying you probably have a shoe in. That first impression is the most important, stand up straight, eye contact and ask them something random and let them do some talking.
I'm personally tired of religious women and wont date anymore of them and I don't care what they look like, 20 minutes of sex is not worth it.
I haven't dated in a couple of years at all now. Looking for that nice atheist woman is like looking for a girl playing an online game. Girls don't play online games. (sarcasm but it seems true in this town anyway)
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Ditch her, you want to date a girl, not her religion. Just think how terrible her relatives must be, bible thumpers like her but not cute. And the lack of humor is very bad sign. Fundies want to make sure God exists by taking him extra seriously. Find someone laid-back. For example I admire people who are able to make fun of themselves.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I suggest moving on and not dating this girl. She said it herself, she does not want to date atheists. Any attempt to pursue this girl would have to be in a dishonest way which deceives her about your atheism and causes you problems with your career.
About the incident with the ripped trash bag, I wouldn't worry about it at all. I suspect she was not flirting with you, but if she was, there is no way for anyone on this forum to tell. There is a reason for her reaction, but it is probably not related to you and you are unlikely to ever find out what it is. After all, anger is an emotion and emotions are irrational.
edit: Rich Woods, you are hilarious.
I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.
screw her. don't pollute your gene pool with ignorance
and the deusche bag line was great. if she can't appreciate it she deserves to be a christian
I Am My God
The absence of evidence IS evidence of absence
I'm all for deceiving Christian women who denigrate atheists and refuse to date them. You should hook up with her and right when you blow your load all over her face yell at the top you lungs "THER IS NO GOD!"
That'll teach her.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Ty Sir...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
That is definitely worth a consideration.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I know you are saying that in jest, because no one really "deserves" such horror. It might suit them well but to deserve it.. nah.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
This is sound advice. I wish I would've taken it when I was 19.
I got married young, to a fundamentalist Christian. She was (and still is) a good person. She knew I was an atheist, and for the first couple of years, everything was really great. And we had a kid.
Later, when I was attending university studying physics, her friends started to hammer on me. One night she invited a couple over. Instead of the couple, the husband and one of his male friends showed up for dinner. It was very uncomfortable. They tried to convert me. If I was the person I am now, I would've kicked them out of my house. But I didn't want to offend my wife, so I didn't.
I was angry, and unfairly blamed my wife. We talked it out, and started discussing our beliefs. She wanted me to read several books that "debunked" evolution. I said, "I will read three books of yours, if you will read three books of mine." I had lined up The Selfish Gene, and a couple of others I do not now recall.
At first, it seemed she was willing to do this. But as I began reading her books, she did not start reading any of mine. We continued talking about it, until one night I said, "Look. Science is based on observations that anyone can make. If scientists were really trying to disprove God, and were lying, there would have to be a huge conspiracy. Almost every scientist alive today would have to be part of it." She looked abashed, and I realized this was exactly what she believed.
There is a global conspiracy of scientists who wish to disprove God. And as a physics major, I was joining them.
It all went to hell from there.
It is not a good idea to start a relationship with a strong Christian unless you are ready yourself to join in their beliefs. This isn't about worldviews or any other such nonsense. It's about mutual respect. You will not be able to respect her because she believes some really kooky things. She will not be able to respect you because she must believe you are willfully going against God. You will wait for her to see reason, but you never will. She will wait for you to be saved by God's love, but you never will.
In the meantime, this mutual disrespect, no matter how mild, will poison your relationship.
EDIT: The douche line was damned funny.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
This sounds like an angry pirate moment, to me.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Ouch... that's really sad. Is your kid alright? I hope you were able to impart some rationality.
Child rearing tends to be the most divisive point in these cases.
I know it might not be the most romantic thing, but I'm all for prenups... wouldn't hurt to include a clause that demanded a secular upbringing for any and all children.
My daughter is OK. She has some of her mom's beliefs -- but she seems to have much more doubt than her mom ever did. She's 22 now (damn, I'm getting old). I decided when things started to fall apart that I'd let her mom handle the religion thing. During visits, she didn't go to church, though I offered from a young age. She knows I'm not a bad guy -- and she's really taken to her evil stepmother (my wife) and family. It's weird seeing my kid bond to her "naunt" (not-aunt) and not-cousins. Both my wife and her sister are atheist.
Life is strange, and wonderful, and unexpected. But there's no reason to stack the deck against yourself by hooking up with someone with strongly divergent ideas of what constitutes "reality."
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
That's good to hear Nigel. I've heard horror stories about Christian children disowning their respective atheist parent and refusing to have anything to do with him (usually him in those I've heard). I'm glad this isn't one of those cases.
Good advice and lulz in this thread keep it up
I would just tell her point blank:
If your believe that an invisible man would to punish you for having sex with me, we have to end this now.
You're better of with hookers. Christian women want your mind and soul in exchange for sex, hookers only some cash. You can always make more money but if you loose your mind to something like religion, you may never get it back.
P.S. I don't believe in a soul, speaking metaphorically.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
As mentioned earlier, if there is no joy in your area, moving somewhere better is a very good idea.
Well, it has always worked for me.
Thank you everyone for what you wrote. I've thought a lot about this and have come to the conclusion that I need to be honest. Lying isn't going to get me anywhere. Or at least it isn't going to get me were I want to go. I can't believe in god. I've heard all the arguments in some form or another and I just can't believe it. I need to be honest about that. I'll be honest, and I'll just hope that some day some one can love me for who I am. After I graduate from collage I'll start looking for somewhere I can be happy. All any of us can do is the best we can.
Sounds like she is picking up the vibes you plan to ask her out and is throw rocks at you.
No woman, No Cry, particularly this one.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
This reminds me of some very useful advice I was given as an innocent lad when being dumped by a young lady.
"You are too nice".
Don't just do what you think the other person might want. Be yourself and that may well mean being a bit bad.
It's a big world and there is probably someone somewhere.
Mind you, there's a good chance of much misery too.
tell her you want to impale her with your tongue, seriously, that gets them everytime.
Or if you are not that bold, you should tell her that your favorite bible story is the tale of Samson and that you have a jawbone of a moose in your possession and sometimes you fantasize about going to Rwanda and wiping out sinners.
Or....you could just say you are Catholic.
If where you want to go is just to get laid, then maybe lying for a short period of time may not do any harm. If you lie to yourself, then it could be a problem down the road. But there are not too many Christian women that would have sex with a man unless he was Pussy Whipped into 'believing'.
I think what you need now is just lots of experience with different women to build up your self-confidence. Join some dating sites, do it with some hookers.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Despite
"Never interfere in a boy and girl fight."
This may pertain to romance too:
"If you're doing business with a religious son of a bitch, get it in writing. His word isn't worth shit, not with the good Lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal."
from http://www.donshewey.com/1993_zine/words_of_advice_for_young_people.html
An update on this(though a bit late I guess). When I told her I was an atheist she told me that she had never been interested in me in the first place.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.