Human history
Offline Throughout human history as our species faced the terrorizing fact that we do not know how we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authority's) how have attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. The only way to reach truth in your life is to question authority, and think for yourself. It was doing this that evolved me into an atheists. Since doing this it has also opened my eyes to the really sick and twisted minds of some of these so called Christians. Tell me what you think....
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
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I agree with you except for your seeming belief in the good intentions of the authority. I don't believe that political, religious or educational authorities are attempting to "comfort" us with their order, rules and regulations. I believe they are attempting to control us and gain power.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
The first human governments were simply organized food gathering events. Government and politicians expanded from there to cover all aspects of human endevers. This worked pretty well untill some asshole invented religion. Then politics and religion got together for 15,000 years, [give or take a few days] a time span so long it took that long to realize what a realy bad idea it was. Sometime in the late 1780's the USA became the first government to write in a constitution 'religion and government are seperate' and should stay that way. Today a lot of countrys 'practice' the speration but without any law to keep it that way; which is most of secular Europe.
Without the written geruntee Europeans found out who they are, (intelligent/Godless) while the yanks with the amendment are always fighting to keep the fundies at bay.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
The reference to "comfort us" is that in a time when people were to stupid to know diferent these were the ones giving them something to hope for. Telling people that if you follow me you will live eternity in happiness. That was the comfort. Now yes it is all about controll. Religion and politics went together about the time they realized they needed something to scare people with. In a time when people had no fear of death it was only the afterlife that scared them. That is how you controll a mob.
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
As an esotericist, my job is to know what the human history is about, where are we coming from, what are we, and what is our future and purpose. Having that knowledge, I can keep it for myself or those interested, but it primarily helps to distinguish according to it what is true and useful and what is not. It may sound like endless litany of woo woo, but it has clear implications on what to do.
People should make such a clear opinion on politics, economy, society, and stuff. One of things I dislike about Christians, is that their beliefs don't help them fix the world. In north America there's religious right, in south there's religious left, but neither lefts or rights alone can make the world better just like that.
No amounts of praising Jesus will force him to fix the world. Jesus is OK, he doesn't need anything, he's about the last person that would need a donation. But there are billions of our global neighbours who need exactly that kind of devotion and support. There are simple guidelines, like LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR, that really need to be applied on politics, military, international trade, and so on. Jesus didn't say "climb my ass." Christians have their institutionalized, organized life and beliefs, without asking what are these things good for. This place will be anyway all blown up on doom's day and then magically rebuilt after the battle of good and evil, and they don't have to move a finger to make it happen. God will do everything for them.
This is a dangerous delusion. As one my favorite writer says,
'Nothing happens by itself. Man must act and implement his will.'
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
So you have all the answers do you? Then why do Christian hate everything that goes against them. They are the real source of hate in this world. Preaching peace and practicing hate. Really you cant make this shit up. It seems the more you believe in god the more evil you become. Is that the way it's supose to be?
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
Luminon's theism is a intensively subjective business - he can speak for himself and no doubt will - but he's not to be mistaken for a christian. He's speaking in this balanced way because of a non-fundy upbringing and his very bright and unusual mind.
Ask him which god he believes in at your peril...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Atheistextremist: Thanks
Today the most important answers are in politics, economy and market. I saw even some atheists admit, that poverty and greed causes more death and suffering than religion. There are countries like mine where religion is present but has no political power. But this country is fucked up anyway, thanks to the rule of thieves, who steal about 20% of state budget through corrupted government orders.
There are many ideologies, many evils, so that it becomes seemingly hard to define what is truth and good. But the answer is simple. The good is to provide all people with basic requirements according to declaration of human rights, which is food, shelter, healthcare, education and security. Existential security gives a great freedom. It makes you think and do things that you wouldn't otherwise do. The research of human nature and potential has barely begun, because so far we only have observed people conditioned by existential insecurity, or fear of thereof. But human potential is great in both doing small and big things. I should read up more on communities like Federation of Damanhur or former Rajneeshpuram, which proved that people can live and thrive without consumer society, corporate employiment and with surprisingly low stress levels.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Thinking that you have all the answers is just the mind set of the fundamentalist extremist... Well you may not be fudamentalist given the fact that you state giving people food, shelter, HEALTHCARE, education and security. I say that because Obama is pushing health care "LOL"and the fundamentalist hate him there for you dont fit in that extremist cattegory. I do want you to think about the closed minded statement "I do have answers and i'm not the only one" again this puts you and your fellows in the "only ones right" cattegory. Please try to open your mind a little. The statement "i know whats right for me" seems to fit better. There was a study done with lie detector test once asking people that are so sure of there believes yet they all failed the test... Your statement that poverty and greed causes more death and suffering than religion.. Well have you forgot that religions right wing fundamentalist have a lot to do with that. Tax breaks for the rich, and increased taxes for the poor is the way of the church. Keep the rich rich and the poor poor. So could it not be said that Religion plays some part here to.. Yes.. I dont have all the answers and im not a closed minded individual I just think that people are born free and should stay that way.. Also churches should be TAXED higher than all athother because of there involvement in policy..
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
This is not ideology but objective physical reality. Many people already pointed out this problem, not just me but anyone who can see this planet as a whole. Every damn statistician with simple model of "global village". They also already suggested solutions.
The problem you have in USA with right-wiged religion is nearly universal. Trust me, rich-friendly taxes are perfectly possible with any right-winged government, religious or not. I don't have first-hand experience with religion in politics. This country was never very religious in last 100 years thanks to separation of church and state, communistic persecution and general lukewarmness of character. But there is also religious left wing. So what you mean is rather a particular organized religion that favors the rich, than religiosity as such.
In my opinion, religiosity is a particular mindset. When someone says "God", they worship it. That's inborn idealism and devotion which can't be cured but it may decline naturally with the end of this culture and invention of new culture. In fact, I think that religious people sense the end of old culture and do everything to stay in power, which won't work eventually. Every culture lasts for about 2000 years and this one is just dying. Some visionaries can see what this new culture will be about and people are divided into two almost equal groups. Those welcoming the new culture and those holding onto the old culture. The problem is that current situation is a stalemate, which will only slowly turn in favor of the progress. That's a dangerous situation but still gives hope.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
You are right about the religious left. It is true religion "infects" us all. However you are on a forum based on the atheist views. Now it would seem to me that you would consider atheist Americans right.. I hope so you wouldn't want to open that can I'm sure. Bush Sr. a hard core right winger was quoted as saying that atheist are not Americans in his book. Well I think you know where that is headed. Politics's are full of religion to say that there is separation of church and state is a man blinded by the acceptance of his views. I on the other hand am not seeing my views passed. It always seems to be the religious right throwing them out.
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
Until then, we'll have these American crusaders bringing faith overseas to local groups of Christian youth. But I hope that traditional Czech lukewarmness, beer and techno parties will weaken this conquest. Next time I meet those folks I have to ask how the mission is really going, what makes their ranks swell or deflate.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I honestly never thought I'd say this. I agree with Luminon!
Apart from the techno parties, I'll take Czech relaxed attitudes and beer in opposition to Christian conquest
Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss
Well it would be nice here if they would take religion out of politics. I dont see that happening in my life time. I can only push for my childrens generation and hope for the best. On one of the other post we are discusing how it would go if you tried to start a weekly Atheist gatthering. I know there would be a lot of opposition. What are your thoughts on the matter? do they have anything like that where you are?
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
As I said, my people are lukewarm about religion. But also about atheism and all intellectual topics in general. It bores the hell out of me, but people like to watch and discuss sports, like hockey, soccer or anything we're currently winning. (like this year Martina Sablikova magnificently won in ice speed skating) Most of my friends are simple materialists, not thinkers. Christians are better in that, though they're also just common people their faith compels them to face these topics - or people with different view on them. Christians here generally keep a low profile. Of course there are many religious crazies of all Christianic kinds, but it's very easy to ignore them, because you won't find them in mass media and politics. Religion is not so severe here to provoke a counteraction. I think the people here should be more active, because politicians here are out of control and steal about 20% of annual state budget.
Although, this mild environment is quite friendly to alternative medicine, New Age culture, gurus and quackery. Also teahouses, we have the greatest concentration of them in the world. I think skepticism here is rather perceived as a threat, because local skeptic society is founded and led by old communistic dignitaries who grew up, studied and worked in totalitarian regime. And they really enjoyed it, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to reach any place of importance. These people have been proven as wrong, incompetent and dangerous, as they (communists) come. They attack all that is different without any understanding or study of what they criticize, whether it is quackery or not. This is why they don't allow discussion, they couldn't stand up to any counterarguments. It's natural the skeptics disagree for example with astrology, but their simplistic objections show rather their own stupidity and ignorance of the subject, than inconsistency on the astrology's side. So they stay with their old communistic methods, like organized infiltrating of television broadcast councils. No, they don't even introduce popular science to public, they just criticize. And general public doesn't care about these hidden battles, they've got their sports and... floods. Yeah, floods and subsequent rebuilding of houses keeps locals busy.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Well it may not be religion, however it seems you have problems there as well. I would still like to know how you would feel about starting an atheist gatthering place here in the USA. I realize that you have your own views on many issues, as we do. An open floor forum would be in my eyes the best way to do this. Without all of the typing, posting, and reading. A two or three day topic on here would be discussed in a matter of minutes... So what do you think? And would you attend? (if able)
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
I think that with good will and interest in other opinions we can quite safely be anything, theists, atheists, whatever. I'd like to see such a group as you say, but without prejudices, inhibitions, fears and so on. It's diffcult to speak freely even in a so-called freethinker group, when the members are afraid of returning Dark age.
It would be much easier to explain and demonstrate all opinions and topics in person, clear away inhibitions and raise interest. And perhaps show off some psychedelic music from my collection
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I was actually thinking about this just today. I wonder if an Atheist "church" would be tax exempt? That alone might be a great reason to create one. Then we could have a great tax shelter for our wealth as well. It is disgusting how much land churches own that is not taxed. And even more disgusting how they build big expensive buildings and they are not taxed. I am a tax appraiser for real estate taxes so I get pissed off multiple times each day when I see some church or another with acreage and a nice building that is tax exempt. Which means everyone else's property taxes are higher (Property tax levies generally are set to bring a specific amount of money in so property values are determined first then the tax rate is set high enough to bring in the required money)
What really pisses me off is that I have to appraise it anyway (government inefficiency thing). Today, I had to get out of my air conditioned car in 100 degree heat to measure the square footage of a ridiculous church. And WTF is gods problem with squares? Why do they need all those stupid angles? If I wasn't already an athiest I would have been converted today. So y'all paid me to spend 20 minutes measuring and sketching a stupid church that won't pay taxes anyway.
As for whether or not I would show up at a meeting depends on how much fun it was. I would probably show up the first time out of sheer curiosity but it would probably take some food and beer or something to keep me coming back. I couldn't imagine showing up just to sit in a circle and laugh about religion. I can do that from my computer.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Hey right now its just a thought. There is a convention coming up in October. Its in Dallas Fort Worth area. the tickets are like $90 dollars per person. Now I'm not a cheap scape but come on!!! Hotel, Food,& other shit it would cost an arm and a leg.
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
If daddy's thing takes off that would be great. Now your issue with money is just the tip of the iceberg. There is still that deep rooted fear that someone, or more than one would get hurt. Now I know that Christians are supposed to be civilized, but really. I don't think for a second that this would be easy..
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
Nah, I just took a break from the forum. I found I wasn't contributing as constructively as I would have liked and I was getting a little tired of seeing the same conversations over and over again. I'm back to lurk around. Good to see you're still here!
Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss