I wonder what would happen
Offline So this is a topic I tend to think a lot about lately. What would happen if it was in fact proven to the world that there really is no god? I wonder how people in the world would react. Of course I know there are people that no matter what proof you have of something they will still disregard it and that might actually be a good thing. But the ones that take it for real and their life is just turned upside down with the fact, I wonder how they would react.
To me this is kinda a scary thought. I think that all the child molestors/rapists,people who have at least contemplated killing someone but were too afraid of judgment, piss poor broke ones that go to church every Sunday but think about robbing that convenient store on the way home, etc. Even though I am an atheist, I feel that religion may actually help some people. Those with the unsettling thoughts especially.
Anyway, I was just thinking about this a few minutes ago and kinda wanted to see what people thought would happen.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
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Your husband Jimmy and I had this discussion "live" during the RRS get-together a while back. Jimmy convinced me that if god/religion suddenly disappeared that 1/2 your neighbors would turn into murderous/rapist/amoral/psychphants and I believed him. I grew up in the U.S. of A. I easily believed him.
Jimmy said he was scared of the prospect and I believed him! I also gave him advice on moving to Canada, not so religious as the U.S. of A. and good insurence coverage to boot. Do you like Tim Horton's coffee, and hockey and the CFL and the Blue Jays? And did you know that during the War of 1812 not only did Canada boot you army out of Canada we burndt Washington D.C. in retalliation for burning York [Toronto]. These and meny other amazing facts you will learn as soon as you and Jimmy move up here.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Did you know or recall that both John Paul eye eye & Benedict the ex vee eye said in official writing that "the theory of evolution is NOT incompadible with Catholic doctrine."
That was just their quaint way of saying, "we know god aint real but be a good catholic anyways."
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Well, there is proof. I mean mind-bogglingly overwhelming proof that this 'god' being does not exist, and can not exist (more piling up by the day, any one thing a complete victory). What do people do? They just ignore it, as they have for centuries.
If you actually managed to convince people?
Well, I imagine they'd all do more or less the same thing they always have, except for the more socially conservative ones would take the sticks out of their bums. That is, the more vicious hatred of homosexuals, and some other elements of fundamentalism, die down a bit.
Nah- they can still do all of that stuff believing in their 'god'; they just need to ask Jebus for forgiveness after the fact.
It's more the legal consequences that deter wicked people than religion. Comparative crime statistics might even suggest that religion encourages crime (more likely, though, they are just mutually correlated to poor education).
Oh cool. I was kinda in and out of that conversation. Just caught the tail end of it. He and I have had this discussion several times. I think mostly because we are in the bible belt ( both from alabama ) and we both know some of our own family members would go ape shit. We have talked about movung there a couple times, esecially sinse Ethan was born. We run into lots of dead ends all the time in dealing with his health care. I'm starting the beginning stages of preparation to open my own business. Maybe once I get it going (starting online) and he can be the lazy bum he wants to be so bad lol, we can start looking at moving somewhere that could make dealing with Ethan's health issue so much easier.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
I agree they do still do wicked things and things people don't even know they are doing. Or people know but because they are a christian, they don't believe it because that person is a christian. Actually we have a child molestor in our family that goes to church all the time but he skated because of evidence mainly but also our family still excepts this tard because he is a christian.
I just wonder about those who try to curb their disgusting fetishes ( although they have been fulfilling them in other ways ) by going to church everytime the doors are open.
I'm kinda thinking along the lines of just how far would these priests that were eh hem getting sexual favors from little boys would have gone had they had an inclination that is no god. I wonder if they would have gone as far as to kill them too. That's the thing about someone with an f'd up mind like that. You never know just how far they would go. Maybe I watch too much TV and horror movies idk but the thought of what it might be kinda scares me.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
It has been proven that there is no god, it is just that most of humanity does not want to accept it.
Thoughts require material, that is scientific fact. Humans have filled the graveyard of myth with prior gods no one longer believes in. Humans are capable of believing false things.
Now if people want to attempt to construct a working definition and working model to prove the existence of a god, the future is wide open. But all the god claims so far are debunked and not worthy of calling scientific fact.
There are lots of things I can utter out of my mouth if I wanted to make up and believe something, but only a fool will buy an utterance merely because it sounds good.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Well I think that there lots of so called Christian that supress their real desires. They may even be the decon in the church. Deep down in their minds they are sick sadistic killers. Just look at the killing they do in the name of god. Take that away and they will have nothing to fall back on.
There has been discussions on this forum where theist ask what keeps us from being killers. The answer is usually rationality. The real question should be is religion the only thing keeping these people grounded? I think in some people it is.
I don't think that it would be isolated to the bible belt either.
Just my thoughts. Oh and if Becky's buisness takes off I will so be a lazy bum!
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
You are stuck on labels. I speak in terms of human nature and human psychology. I think speaking of psychological problems as being an invention of one label or any label, is a bad line of logic. Human problems that cause these things, are because we are human.
There will always be those who despite any reasoning you may present them do not like any competition to their beliefs and see any such competition as a threat, even if you explain that you are trying to help them.
Somewhere in Dawkin's book, "The God Delusion" he shows how this same behavior is found in other species. He talks about a species of bird and in a flock, the alpha male will violently react to a subordinate, even if that subordinate is merely offering help.
Both you and I are capable of murder. Not in the sense that we will murder, but in that part of our human evolution and even murder existing in other species as well.
Most humans, outside of war on a national scale, will not. But when resources lack, or a tribal member or gang member or family member or even ourselves as individuals, feel a threat to the point we feel our lives are in danger, will react. Even aggressive murder is a natural reaction to a feeling of or real lack of resources, or a threat to our resources, be they emotional or financial and we can as a species and often do, murder in aggression even when the threat is not real.
Murder exists as a product of evolution. Humans react to murder negatively because of evolution. None of what humans do, should be understood through labels, other than humans hide behind labels because they do not understand their own psychology and why they do what they do, both good and bad.
I do think religion, race and politics help, unfortunately, avoid the needed understanding of the human condition and sets up a gang mentality.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Rebecca,
I would like to provide several comments in response to your question.
1. God is immaterial by its definition. This means that whatever material proof for existence or nonexistence of a god we provide, there always will be a way to modify the definition in such a way, that the material arguments are avoided. In other words, tell me the argument for the nonexistence of a god, and I came up with a new definition of god that avoids your argument.
2. A hypothetical proof that god does not exist would make a broad spectrum behavioral effect on believers in both short term and long term. Probably this spectrum will include suicides and murders. That said, the effects of the proof for god's EXISTENCE would create a real doom. Think of this, it will be that more than 50% of planet's population had a wrong god in a wrong way.
3. In the long term, that is over than one generation, the effects on non-believing in gods will be likely positive. Kids who never exposed to indoctrination will have no any religious feeling about god. Soviet Union is a good example. No one was screaming - "oh, my god, there is no god!". I think that this was one of a very few things in Soviet Union that was done right and really well generally (with some reservations though including my grand-grand-pa who was a priest and who disappeared during Stalin's repressions). The sad thing about USSR is that religion has been replaced with a cult, but it is a different story.
In my opinion, declaring gods disproved is not the best way to get rid of religion even if this would be possible. A more gradual approach is needed. We need to work with kids, families, charities maybe... all the same drill just without a god.
Best,
100%
I guess the issue here is your point 'if it was proved there was no god'. If it was truly proved to all humans there was no god I think most actual christians would go on being decent people. A lot of us used to be christians and have learned that personal morality does not evaporate if belief in god fades.
The former believers would get on with loving their families and communities and would find they feel almost identical as a non believer. I think people would actually behave better. We would realise we have one chance, one life, one planet. There's a bigness of feeling to being a sentient organism in our universe, the direct descendant of the first living organisms, to owning responsibility for the preservation of life. Praying to a god who does not respond is really just self parenting anyway and there is nothing to stop former christians continuing a positive and self affirming inner dialogue.
I don't know about the nutcases who would start wildly killing if there was no afterlife threat to worry above. Many countries are atheist and don't have a higher crime rate. There might be nutcases but not many. And, as others have pointed out, if there was any possible way to keep believing in god, the non believers would do so. For them no proof at all is the ultimate proof. How do you contest this sort of mindset?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Yeah I'm with you somewhat. The atheist countries are a progressive thing and they apparently have some smarter people than the US does. I don't want to sound like I'm labeling but there are a few people I know that would absolutely have a meltdown if they were slapped in the face with the whole there is mo god and it's a proven fact.
The example I'm rambling about is say tomorrow on the news they broadcast irrefutable proof that it's all a hoax. My fear is just mass hysterics (my mom is one of those with the meltdown ayndrome)because these people have nothing left now. I know people who lean on religion heavily because that's all they have and without it their world is just tiling ever so sideways.
I don't know what example to use as the irrefutable proof but you get my drift. Something that without a doubt nobody could ever say " blah, that's not true ". I know they could but those people would go on believing anyway and they would really harden their hearts towards atheists.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
double post because of my phone,sorry
I meant believers here, rather than non believers....sorry, lack of coffee.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I'd hate my mum to be without Jesus. I really don't think she could handle it. He is her best friend in all the world. She has a shrine to him in her bedroom.
I looked at it last night when we were hanging out and was tempted to stick a photo of Justin Bieber in there, tho' I doubt she'd get it the giggliness of it.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I think as time goes on, maybe in a few hundred or thousand years as our minds evolve civilization wont feel the need for religion anymore. My personal opinion is that religion it is a mental weakness that needs to be outgrown as a civilization.
~~Be Real~~
I think a better way to put it would be: What would happen if all holly texts where discovered to have been written as fiction or entertainment for their respective cultures. IF for example they found writings that dated to around the time the first passages of the bible where written and writers stated that it was all a joke or just a fictional work. This would really turn religion on it's head, but ultimately I think they would keep believing because it makes them feel good. Like someone said above it would be impossible to disprove the existence of god.
The OT's first 5 books outed as The Complete Works of Moses Rice Burroughs...
This.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about but yeah I think some are so wrapped up in it that it doesn't matter. They'd still keep believing.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
Unfortunately, the proof comes in the form of science, which most people (including me) don't really understand... so the ones who also don't understand *anything* that they can't purchase on sale at Walmart will disregard it... The more proof Science can provide, the deeper the Denial, and the more unreasonable the rationalizations become...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I wondered about this back in Y2K. Remember how the second coming was almost upon us and not only the christians but the druids and wiccans made fools out of themselves? What were people going to do when nothing happened? Well, it wasn't 2000, it was 2001. And nada. I don't know, maybe they are all going on about 2012 or 2035 or something now. I quit paying attention.
My sister was on the band wagon and her response was pretty typical. "We don't know exactly when it will happen, but it will happen. And no, I have not quit believing in the church elders who were making a big deal of it, and no I have not quit believing in Jesus."
So if somehow, someone came up with definitive god/s/dess did not exist? It wouldn't make a spec of difference except to a very few people who were already sitting on the fence.
I'm late because I hosed my pc Tuesday. As in format the hard drive and start over. Lost some not important info, rescued the really important stuff. But it takes time to rebuild. Mostly back now.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Oh hey I'm in the very beginning stages of starting that business I was talking about. I'm looking at distributors and stuff right now. I'm going to start online first and later open a store. I'm going to do some screen printing and several other things. So in the near future I will have the atheist undies lol.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
You let us know, okay? I think the mods would let you shamelessly promote your goods.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.