Aw I know you hate the south but if you lived in south Texas Jimmy would more than likely have you a job in a second.

cj i think you did the right thing by not staying with that crazy job.  i had a job for four years, great job, but just about everyone in the office went to the same church and prayed at work!  that's the job that my boss would give me religious pamphlets at my reviews and i'd find an open bible on my desk.  FUCKING WRONG.  anyway i literally had a nervous breakdown.  (and i'm pretty tough when i have to be, but they wore me down.)  i took a leave of absence and finally quit.  so i'm glad you won't have to go through all that.  just don't give up!  i'm sure you'll find a muuuuuch better situation to work in. 

and don't get me started with the immigrant issue!  we need to get people out of our country that don't legally belong here.  america is in a serious crisis for jobs and the thought of illegal immigrants having benefits just really pisses me off.  i mean what the fuck?!

I have an in-law whose sister is exactly what you describe. Neither her or her husband will work, though they are physically able. They have 4 kids, and live entirely off welfare/public assistance. They're as white as you can be, their ethnic heritage being a mix of irish, german, and english. Their most recent immigrant lineage landed in the US before the civil war. The problem isn't their ethnicity, it's their laziness.

I know the political right wing likes to demonize immigrants (legal or not), but the fact is that they aren't really the problem. The vast majority of them are hardworking legal residents who pay their taxes. Sure, there is a sizable minority that takes advantage of the system and causes problems, but if certain business didn't actively recruit illegal immigrants because they knew they didn't have to pay minimum wage and benefits, the problem would basically solve itself. Businesses need to take responsibility, verify legal status of employees, and follow labor laws. If they did that, there would be more job openings for legal residents. Would it solve our current economic problems? no, but at least we wouldn't have to listen to thinly veiled racism masquerading as patriotism, and not have right wing power whores using it as a wedge issue.

Oh ok, I see. You like other countries being pissed at us. Well, let's just shut down all the borders and watch what happens. Let's watch as a lot of businesses shut their doors as well. I mean it's all about the fact that we let immigrants come here that this country is so fucked up, right?

They take our jobs and that's why we had a recession, huh? It couldn't have had a thing to do with that moronic George W. It's predjudice, whatever way you turn it. If you don't like immigrants then stay outta their country too. Oh and heres the other thing. I guess this mexican chick should go sell her body in order to feed those kids? Or would that be a problem too?

I really hate how nobody can do anything right, especially if they are immigrants. There's no right and wrong way because there are so many highly opinionated people that think they have it all figured out. And their solution is the best one.

They will judge and condemn in order to make someone feel like shit for whatever choices they made. Last I checked this was a country where we have the rights to do what we need to do in order to survive. Anyway, Ima get off this thread before my pissy attitude gets me in trouble.

Ps: kapkao, you should know I don't care about much of anything you have to say. You open mouth and insert foot a lot.

Yeah and they didn't hire those illegals to come in the way rich white folks do now.

I see you don't know the meaning of self contradiction but that's ok. I can post the meaning if you need me to. I can also try and explain. Not sure if you will get it but here goes.....I don't like predjudice! I don't see the huge problem with immigrants.

I think that the one's who gripe about it are the lazy people who think they are too good to get a job at McDonalds. No, they sit there jobless and complain about immigrants taking their jobs but it all honesty, if these people were bad enough off, they would go get that job at McDonalds until they found something else.

No pun intended cj. This is not directed towards you in the least bit. I will say that I am actually embarrassed that I'm from the south. There are some of the most predjudice people there.

Some of the comments on this thread just really appalled me. Everyone isn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Some hqve to apply for government help. Some have to take lower paying and unrewarding jobs. I just found it a little rediculous that a hispanic woman was a lower life form compared to the american in the food stamp office. I also find it ridiculous that what other people do for money has something to do with their character.

Well let's file that one under judging a book by it's cover. If I felt I made a mistake, I would apologize. Seeing as how the original post I made wasn't directed towards you, I don't believe I'm the one who made a mistake. For that matter I'm not sure anyone did, but you quoted me so you knew I would respond.

I called him a fuck turd in a joking manner and no actually, I'm having a pretty good day. Whether I'm having a good or bad day is beside the point. Doesn't change the fact that you have come to this site and made it a point to offend people with your predjudice remarks and your putting people down for what they do for a living.

Personally, I am very offended by the remarks you have made. My daughter dates a hispanic boy and I can tell you, had it been a white girl with hispanic kids, I would have the same response. To be as experienced as you claim to be, you really make a lot of rude and down right degrading remarks.

There is people of damn near every race on this forum and I want to tell you that it's truly disrespectful of you to suggest that those people don't deserve the same rights as we get. Something to maybe consider before you make any more posts about race, sexuality and so on. This is an atheist website. Not a race bashing and condemning people funhouse.

I'm glad you're not having a bad day.

You are wrong about assuming I am a racist. I am not. Sorry if my reply offended you, it was not meant to offend anyone - except, maybe, any illegal aliens who may be lurking (or in plain sight) here. The girl could have been white, Indian, Chinese or another color and I still would have been pissed off about the fact that she had several toddlers hanging on her and another in the oven while standing on line for food stamps. The fact was, she was Hispanic and so that is how I described her. I would bet a $ that the rest of what I said about her was true.

So, you think it is better for her to be getting food stamps rather than 'selling her body'...as though selling her body would be a bad thing? Yet, you criticize ME for 'judging' someone else who is doing the exact same thing? Hmmm. What's the difference...it's okay to get paid mega bucks for doing porn but, it's not okay to be a prostitute for chump change? A bit of a double standard there, don't ya think?

Yes, it is an atheist web site - not a hell hole for degenerates. Or is it? I don't think one has to abandon their moral standards when they abandon god. But, I do agree with you: I don't quite fit in here...and that's alright with me.

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

Really? Now we're gonna resort to immaturity? I wasn't being mean to you, just saying imo the fact that you are VERY predjusice is a sad thing to see from a grown ass woman. But ok, i can be a bitch too. She is no worse than you. My husband works and technically he is supporting your ass to get food stamps. I don't have an issue with that but if you think it's fair for you but not someone else because they made mistakes just like you then that's bullshit.

Maybe she didn't make the same mistakes as you but as far as you're concerned she is scum of the earth because omg she got pregnant! Please! Spare me the line of crap. You already said you don't have a job so you aren't supporting her and her kids. Not to mention, you don't have any say in where those tax dollars go. It's just a cold hard fact. Am I happy about. Not really but it limits the ones on the streets begging.

Oh and illegal immigrants don't get food stamps. They may have a legal one that goes as head of household and lies (and I'm sure that ruffles your feathers lol) but we have this thing called border control and no illegals would dare walk in and try. They'd be deported.

Ok, I live in Texas and most of my friends here are hispanic. They won't date hispanic guys because they say they are controlling and abusive. Just a thought but abusive men sometimes keep there wives/girlfriends pregnant so that they feel trapped. In essence, they don't leave. It may be possible that she really has no choice. Possibly speaks only spanish so she doesn't know of resourses like battered womens shelters and so on.

I'm pretty sure they don't set out for the US with the intention of pissing people like you off. They may not even be aware that there are so many that do get pissed about it. But I can tell you, they aren't out to get you. They want a better life than what they have there.

I know, I know, it shouldn't be at Americas exspense and they shouldn't geg handouts in your opinion. But they do. There's people here like that dumb bitch octomom and the couple with 19 kids who say " we want another one ". As if we don't pay for that too? Like I said, it's a cold hard fact and unless your willing to except that you will be put in jail for stalking the prez, what can you really do? Besides gripe at me about it?

In years past, it was a decent source of booze money.  As for expensive kids... are you buying them clothes from anywhere besides Thrifty Nickel, and buying food from anywhere but Safeway?

Also, 4-6 kids per bed and NO new toys during birthdays and xmas. Yeah, there's quite a few corners a person can cut when it comes to child-rearing.

I don't know if that girl was illegal or not but, if she was and those kids were born here, they are elligble for handouts that hard working American pay for. If she is illegal, she is not and can not contribute to the pot. True, one does not need be an illegal to be a leach...but, the point is, if you are a legal American you are legally entitled to 'help'.

Because, after all, the "Black Market" argument is infallible, and it's not like legalization has increased usage in other countries, either...

I doubt anyone cares about plain usage levels.  Personally, I'm more concerned about violent crime and overall cost.

The way we deal with drugs in America right now just isn't working.  We just send people to prison, then they come out with little chance of decent work and a new gang of associates and behaviors that encourages recidivism.

We've had a bunch of thefts.  Meth heads trolling around, breaking and entering, that sort of thing.  The police actually caught one group of people and I got to meet them when I was identifying some of our property...a whole group of toothless, drugged out losers.  They're going to go to jail for a couple years then be right back out.  No skills, no chance at getting a real job...they'll be doing the exact same stuff inside of a month.  No choices, even if they wanted to join society.

Now we *could* just reoccurring offenders for life, which would solve part of the problem.  Expensive though.

Depends.  If they are being paid under false identities (most are, as a business, not having at least a fake ID for your workers is like turning yourself in to the IRS) then they are paying income tax.  They would only avoid that if they are being paid straight cash.

Legal, simple and sane.  Have you ever spoken with people who've gone through the system legally?  It is a bureaucratic nightmare, it takes ages, and usually you need to be skilled and educated to be accepted.

Why wouldn't we just give them a clean and easy path to citizenship?  I'm not sure what the big stink about this is either, the arguments I hear against it are mostly, 'Oh, we'll be rewarding them for sneaking in!'.  Well, so what, most of them couldn't have made it in through standard channels.

1. Reform immigration so people can actually make it in to do the work, and have a clear path to citizenship if they want it.

2. Lock down the border.

3. Provide path to amnesty for current illegals.

4. After amnesty period, start rounding up remaining illegals.

We'll never fix the problem with plain enforcement unless we want the southern states to look like Israeli border towns (and they don't even catch everyone!).

NIMBY doesn't have anything to so with it.  If someone wants to get wasted that is fine with me, as long as they can still support themselves and don't start disrupting society.  I *suppose* that could be seen as NIMBY, but that is not the spirit of it.

Our criminal justice system didn't work when we had room in the prisons and LWOP, why would continuing a system that didn't work then start working now?  We already have outrageous incarceration rates, I don't think the evidence shows the answer to be 'do it harder'.  I agree, the way we handle crime in general isn't working.  We should look to the countries that have lower crime rates and think about how we could apply those systems.

Now, we *could* lower crime by cracking down, but that would mean executions for most felonies and public beatings for most non-felonies.  If we're willing to do that as a society, it does seem to work.  If we aren't, we need to look to more liberal systems that focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment.

No.

Not in my back yard.

I hate to get political, but I don't see why it is impossible, the Dems would do it if they could.  Honestly, if the economy hadn't melted down they might have done it in the initial wave after Obama was elected.  I doubt anyone will do anything about it soon though, since our government is about to go into gridlock for the next two years.

Active duty- yes

Veterans- no

Any worthwhile veterans who are willing to continue being shot at aren't going to accept government pay, not when they can earn four times the income with Blackwater. 

Generally I think militarizing the border is a waste of resources. It is a really big border and the forces required to effectively shut it down would be immense. Plus, to be effective, we would have to be willing to shoot and kill women and children, I just don't see us doing that. If we try to arrest everyone, what do we do with them? Send them back? They will cross again tomorrow. Hold them in our already overtaxed prison system? It simply isn't realistic especially since most of the people coming across are harmless and are simply trying to flee the violence and corruption in Mexico. If I was in Mexico I would run across the border too. And don't even get me started on the ridiculous idea of building a wall. Penn & Teller did a great bit on that where they hired Mexicans to build a wall consistent with many of the proposals then paid them to get through it. It added like 30 seconds to their commute time. These people are risking their lives and going through a lot of effort to get here, a little wall won't stop them and neither will arresting them and sending them back.

About the drugs. I don't care if people use them, it is their business. I do care that I might get shot someday by someone who is afraid that I will report their meth lab. My job means I am walking around peoples properties and I have had problems with drug dealers before because they are afraid that I will report them. Illegal drugs bolsters organized crime just like illegal alcohol bolstered mobsters in the 20's. 

Now that is an idea I can work with.

But on a serious note you are right. The best way to stop the problem is to help Mexico become a decent place to live. Our government has a history of propping up the corrupt governments of Mexico (and around the world remember we used to give Osama guns). Our farm policy also plays a big role in the devastation of Mexico because we artificially increase the price of grains and corn which I would argue kills people around the world through direct starvation and indirectly through social breakdown caused by food shortages. Sometimes we are so damn ignorant of the damage our actions causes in other countries. Americans are chronically ignorant and sometimes it pisses me off. We really do deserve what we get sometimes. 

Good grief - I agree with Beyond Saving.  Mark your calendar as this is a red letter day.

A remarkably good question with a slew of dumb answers - my answers are probably included in the dumb part.  People have to believe they can provide a life better than theirs for their children.  It is what keeps the masses quiet and calm in the US.  Regardless of the facts, most Americans believe they can manage to help their children have a better life than they themselves have.  Last time I read anything on the subject, it is not particularly true in the US, but that is not important.  It is the perception of social advancement that is important, not actual advancement.

So to get Mexico to that point, lots of things would have to change.  Including Mexicans perception of Mexico.  Not easy, not quick and not in my lifetime.  Maybe in my grandson's. 

In the meantime, we should get real about what is happening, why it is happening and stop spending money on projects that have no effect except to employ some people short term.  Short term - open the border, set up something like the old bracero program, change the drug laws (maybe not legalize completely, but loosen them so they aren't so profitable for the bad guys), streamline the process to citizenship for everyone.  I'm way tired of endless paperwork at the moment.