Jimmy is having a debate with a predjudice christian
Offline My husband, jimmy.williamson, is going to have a sit down later this week with a guy he works with who is catholic and sadly is very predjudice. It has came to a few of his co-workers attention that he is atheist and this one guy has told Jimmy that he has a serious problem with Jimmy.
This guy is from Missisippi I think. He hates black people, hispanics, middle eastern people, you name it and he hates them. His daughter got a signed letter from the president for perfect attendance, perfect grades and so on and he burned it because it had the presidents signature on it.
Now the problems with my husband is that he has since finding out my husband is atheist, taken up harrassing him and making smart ass comments about Jimmy being a devil worshiper. I'm not sure of all the comments made because I can't remember them all right now but this I feel is enough for Jimmy to talk to his boss and possibly have this guy fired for harrassment.
Jimmy has opted for a discussion with this guy for the beginning and I believe if he keeps up with his comments and harrassment then take the next steps. We're not talking about this guy just aggrivating Jimmy. He makes comments to other co-workers about Jimmy.
Jimmy asked me to make this thread and I think the point of it is to get some imput on how to handle this conversation with this guy. It doesn't seem to be as simple for this guy to just keep his mouth shut and let things be. He has made it very well know that he has a serious problem with Jimmy because of his nonbelief in god. Any suggestions or info to use in refute to this guy would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Becky
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
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Tell Jimmy good luck from us. Sounds like your typical workplace bully, so religion is probably just an excuse to act like an ass. If he's going to have a talk with this guy, I suggest doing it at work, with plenty of witnesses.
Oh, and try informing him that to be a "devil-worshipper", you have to believe in "devils" first, and being an atheist means that you don't. That should be simple enough even for that guy. And whatever you do, don't let them provoke you into a shouting-match or any kind of fisticuffs.
Then again, I'm not familiar with this kind of insane, childish behaviour outside the context of a highschool, so maybe someone American can give you more sound advice.
Thank you anonymouse. I will tell him. We have lots of this insanity in the US. I know far to many so called christians like this one. This has a lot to do with the reasons that I rejected god and all that delusion. I can't imagine being like that.
I forgot to add in the original post:
This guy and his wife of course participate in lent or however you spell it. They fasted for 35 days. He said they ate lettuce, peanuts and berries. All they drank was water. He said towards the end he was so weak he couldn't pick his water up to drink it.
He said he had to use a straw and lean over the glass to drink it feom the straw. He didn't even have the strength to pick ul the glass! He should have been in the hospital on iv fluids but instead he and his wife chose to damn near die because of god. I personally can't understand this.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
I happen to be someone that has been unfortunate enough to run across these types of people on a pretty regular basis. That is going to be one of those situations where situational judgement is going to apply. 99% of people that I have met like this guy, mistake blind faith and psychotic convictions for knowledge and are probably not going to listen to any sort of well thought out arguments. These generally tend to be really unreasonable people and for the most part there is no way to talk to them. HOWEVER, I have seen rare cases where people like this can get stumped in their tracks with alot of well thought out arugments and silenced. One or two things happens with them. I have had a few of them (very, very, rare) that would actually tell me that they would never be able to look at Atheists in the same way, after talking to me. The other half generally realizes that the Atheist viewpoint can run rings around their dogma and make them look really foolish. Bullies do not like to look foolish and are not going to risk debating someone that they know is far ahead of them,those types of theists generally leave you alone after a debate.
If this guy is of the first type, best thing to do would be to go through the proper channels to get the bullying theist off of his back.
Second or third type, go ahead and debate them. They'll either soften their approach, get ran away, or try and take it to a higher level of bullying. If it is the latter, then the end result is still going through the proper channels to have him taken cared of. I have not met the guy, so I have no real way of determining if debate or conversation is possible, but he sounds like alot of the extremist types that I encounter. Sometimes, the extremist fanatics are not worth wasting time on, unless he wants the simple pleasure of making him look like the idiot that he obviously is.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Please ask Jimmy to forward a gigantic "Go Fuck Yourself" from me......and then hand the ignominious ass-socket my URL, and tell him to watch tonight...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
Oh jeez, Becky, that sucks.
The only thing I can add to what's already been said is, Jimmy shouldn't bring up any of the other prejudices at all. This guy does not need to be reminded of all his failings (whether he sees them as failings or not). Jimmy should be firm, but not confrontational. If it gets out of hand (the instant he feels more uncomfortable than the situation itself makes him), he should immediately stand up, say, "Thank you for your time, and the opportunity to discuss this like adults," and walk away.
In situations like this, being courteous and polite is the best defense.
Anyway, that's the only advice I can give.
[EDIT addendum]
Oh, yeah. If the harassment continues after the talk, the time for politeness and conciliation is over. You can add a big ol' "I hope your pastor is fucking your wife" from me, to go along with Rich's best wishes.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Haha yeah well knowing Jimmy, this guy will at least get told to "go get fucked". That's his favorite line lol. Hopefully it will be a calm conversation but if it keeps up after the fact then it's more than likely gonna turn ugly.
Jimmy doesn't generally take shit off people but in the work setting he has to bite his tongue a LOT. It's been agreed that this won't take place at work so that if it gets out of hand theres no drama. His plans are pretty much to point out the inconsistancies with the bible and to explain his reasons for his nonbelief. Of course he is exspecting some preaching.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
35 days of "lettuce, peanuts and berries" shouldn't have done any harm.
Peanuts have enough fat, and berries enough carbohydrates that he should not have felt weak after that (with regards to calories).
As far as protein goes, peanuts are a little light on Lysine, but they do have Lysine in them (one just needs to eat more of them).
If he weighs 100 kg, he would just need to eat 300 grams of peanuts a day (which would sill be under a daily 2,000 calories, depending on how many berries he ate and what kind).
On the face of it, a diet of "lettuce, peanuts and berries" is quite healthy and sustainable perhaps for years- unless it is slathered in syrup and oils. The definitions of "lettuce", "peanuts", and "berries" respectively are questionable.
More likely, he's a complete moron and just ate iceberg lettuce slathered in mayonnaise, and a small handful of honey glazed peanuts (more sugar than anything else), and "dried and sweetened" berries which are largely sugar and palm oil. The only healthy things in his diet were likely in a volume inadequate to fill his nutritional needs in the most basic sense short of the calories he got from refined fat and sugar.
If he indeed did manage to make that diet unhealthy, I am in awe of an idiocy so profound it could accidentally surpass the efficacy of planning and deliberation to make the diet intentionally unhealthy.
Even if he ate what I think he ate (which has nothing to do with the stated diet), he still shouldn't have become weak from just 35 days of that- is he in that poor health?
You could tell him that, but I doubt he'd accept it. Idiots will be idiots- even if you showed them the math.
That aside:
What state do you live in?
If you live in a one party consent state, Jimmy should record all of the debate without this guy's knowledge (regardless of what you want to accomplish, this is always a good idea). If the guy becomes belligerent, he can show his employer.
If you live in an all party consent state, I would suggest skipping the debate and just going to the boss.
By federal law, only one party must consent to recording a private conversation, but some states require that all parties must consent (this is primarily applicable to telephone, but any private conversation could fall under this rule in court).
Delaware has some conflicting laws, but would probably be O.K. (don't take my word for that, though- I'm not a lawyer so you'll have to do your own research). Also, if you live in one of these places but hold the debate in a sufficiently public place, it may be possible to record it because he can't reasonably expect privacy (check the applicable laws).
Otherwise, if you live in one of those states, you can't record it without his consent. If you live in a free state, though, record the whole thing, and give it to the boss if the guy gets out of hand (But don't *blackmail* him).
Blackmail law is complicated, but it should be safe to say "Stop harassing me, or I'm showing this to the boss and taking you to court" (Since you aren't trying to extort any personal benefits from him- just trying to get him to behave lawfully as he *should* be doing anyway).
Or if you just want to get him fired, that's much safer.
Again, I'm not a lawyer, so if you decide to do that (threaten the guy with it and make him behave), you might want to talk to one.
Well as Becky stated I have little patience for these racial, christian, hypocrites.
So my patience wore the fuck out today, now the talk will never happen.
I kinda his foot as well as mine in his mouth.
temper temper temper....
thank you all for the comments
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
I know what you mean. A majority of the time, a dialogue or a debate is actually an obtainable goal. However, I have encountered plenty right here in the Bible Belt, where I currently live, where that is totally impossible. Some people that fit the description of this guy you are talking about, seem to have the attitude of think like me or I'll kill ya. When I encounter those, it is almost totally pointless to try to debate anything with them. They have made up their mind and can not fathom or entertain the notion that ANYTHING they believe could be incorrect. You could show him a thousand irrational reasons for his convictions and it would probably be ignored in favor of "MY PREACHER SAYS THIS IS SO, SO IT IS TRUE ! I FOLLOW GOD !,". Totally pointless to try and reason with.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Though this might be already too late...
My piece of advice is: by all possible means DO NOT talk to the guy. Report the known cases of harassment to your manager/boss/head/VP/etc. Do it officially and do not disclose the fact of the reporting to anybody else. Most likely, your company (as all companies in principle) should have quite strict policy on dealing with harassment cases. They are most likely obligated to act on this. Let them work for you.
If they don't, then they are on a hook, and you can safely ask them for a good compensation... in court as well.
Edit: also, make clear your goal is not retaliation, not that the guys is fired, but your goal is to stop harassment. Very simple.
I'll pray for him, shall I? lol
I am, of course, kidding.
This sort of thing really annoys me. My aunt is exactly like that. Just a total catholic nutjob, racist, irrational, and a total bigot. And trying to brainwash her children into it as well. I't always gets my blood boiling to think that someone like that is allowed to raise and influence children. Luckily they are grown up now, and mostly rational people now that they are free of her dogma.
I hope all goes well with this issue. There is too much pain and hate in this world already.
Be as you wish to seem ~Socrates
Missed this before. I'll just say that I would seriously focus more on protecting yourself from rumour, slander, backstabbing, and general bullying than to try to convince this dick of anything. You're under no obligation to correct his bigotry. But at the same time, if you do not take active steps to cut off his campaign against you, it could easily escalate into something that you cannot control or defend against. All that needs to happen is for one slightly believable story to start spreading. It may be a total fabrication, but unfortunately, it *will* colour other peoples' opinions of you if you haven't planted enough seeds against such rumours to stop them before they start.
I would suggest documenting everything you can. Any time you find out about anything he's done against you, write it down, put a date on it, and keep it in a journal. Report any incidents to management, and do so without malice. All you're doing is documenting harassment. Make them aware of the situation *before* the deck gets stacked against you. With any luck, management will be reasonable, and when they start to catch wind of badmouthing, they will have the seed already planted that its source is illegitimate.
There have been too many people who get bullied, prefer to 'tough it out', and end up victims of a social group turning full-on against them. Don't sit by and let it happen. Too many people are too credulous and will think, "I know Fred's got it out for Jimmy, but you never know. Maybe he does have a cocaine habit. Maybe he does abuse his kids. Fred wouldn't make something like *that* up without a good reason. He's a true Christian, after all! Anyway, I won't risk it. Maybe Jimmy's alright, but I think I'll play it safe by promoting Sally instead." Or worse.
I was going to recommend having a video camera on hand for the debate. But if it's not happening, then just stick with making sure you document and report everything. CYA = Cover Your Ass
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Hi Rebecca,
Interesting discussion. Perhaps I ought to have a discussion with your husband. But you said something that was wrong. You said he is going to have a discussion with a Christian and the person is Roman Catholic.
Roman Catholicism is NOT Christian. They deny many essential tenets of the faith. They have:
1) A Different Authority (The Pope tells them what to do and acts as Jesus in Persona Christi).
2) Different God (They can eat their Jesus, and the Jesus turns into poop)
3) Different Method of Salvation (Infusion via 7 sacraments vs. Imputation).
Hopefully that helps. I hope Jimmy gets him out of that cult. And by the way, it's a blind guy leading a blind guy. Eventually they will both fall in the ditch since both the Roman Catholic and Jimmy are both pagans and are both hell bound.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Omfig! Again no rational response to the issue at hand. Just more ridicule and wanting to argue. If you have nothing meaningful to apply to this issue then stay the fuck of of my thread!
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
And thank you to all the others here that did have meaningful input. I only read one that didn't and I think it's obvious which one.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
I had a similar experience this week at my day job.... a Gay Bashing, Muslim hating fundamentalist Christian rationalizing his ignorance and hate-speech as the will of god, and masking bigotry with morality... He actually claimed to "Not Believe" in Cro Magnon Man... because God would never make such a "man"...which was probably the best part of our interaction, because I couldn't stop laughing for a while...especially when i pointed out that his protruding brow and under developed frontal lobe was proof positive of their existance (which, to be fair, he thought was funny too)....
There were so many simple concepts that he was either unwilling, or unable to understand that it made reasonable dialogue impossibe.... He couldnt grasp that "Belief was not a Choice" ... or that "Faith could not be aquired through fear"... which are the basic precepts he abides by... I was simply trying to get him to admit, that the "facts" he was asserting were in fact "belief"... He honestly believes that God is punishing the public school system for taking Prayer out...
It's infuriating when conversing with someone who presents fairy tale as fact in a work environment that you can't explain to him that he's suffering from a psychotic delusion... Nor could I ask him for his daughter as my slave (exodus)... so every time he would quote the bible... I would quote Star Wars...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
Yes but according to the tenets of Calvinism, it would not matter if the fundamentalist left the Catholic Church, he is still going to hell anyway. It doesn't matter if an Atheist saves a man from the catholic cult, he is still going to hell anyway. Everyone is going to hell, everyone has already been pre-destined to go to hell, there is nothing we can do about it, we are all going to hell. Hehehehehehe.
Ok, I give up, I am going to hell. Ok, I wonder if anyone knows if the Devil is taking any applications for the position of the Ghost Rider (obviously Nicholas Cage and Sam Elliot were not cutting it in that movie). I mean, I love to ride, and that chopper on fire looked awesome. Plus, I like the idea of tear-assing through the countryside as the Devil's soul collector on a Harley. (The flaming skull might be a bit much, but I am sure that I would get used to it).
However, there is irrefutable evidence that if I am already destined to hell and have no say so about it, then I must already be destined to be the next Ghost Rider. It's probably part of God's plan all along.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Hello,
We don't know who is of the elect or the reprobate. God did not draw a yellow stripe down the back of the elect. Only God knows. So the Roman Catholic may be elect, or Jimmy may be Elect, or you may be elect, or Rebecca may be elect.
She simply may not have had her evil nature changed. But her choices as of now correspond to her evil nature.
Nobody knows. But as of NOW via consistent Roman Catholicism, logically if one was to be a consistent Roman Catholic or Jimmy Deans, they they would go to hell.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Shut the fuck up
This is not to imply that Jean is not a dick, but in the future, when there is a topic that you don't want people like him to hijack, I recommend starting a thread in Freethinking Anonymous or even Honorary Members and VIP Club rather than in General Conversation.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
This guy sounds like a real @$$. For grins, I might let him keep making an @$$ out of himself but do it in a manner of these clowns vs the KKK.
http://www.neatorama.com/2007/09/03/clowns-kicked-kkk-asses/
peace!
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
I agree with 100percent absolutely and without reservation. Talking to this individual will end in catastrophe, I assure you. If your description is accurate, this fellow is *exactly* the wrong person to try and have a reasonable discussion with.
Take it to HR and don't talk to this person, ever, about anything, without a credible witness present. He's trouble and I suggest treating him like he is on fire because he will probably not hesitate even for a moment to do as much harm to your boy as he can. Fundamentalism and reason are opposite and he sounds like he has one of them in spades.
Good luck!
Hi Marsh,
You are "scared" to have a conversation with me. So of course, like always, when you can't answer my arguments, and when your own worldview is shown to be folly, you attack the person head on.
I am elaborating on the original thesis of my intent, in different areas of atheism. Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, The Prison System, etc. These areas of atheism have their own twist on things via various subjects, but it appears in all areas of atheistic thought via fragmentation, (like I have been saying), atheism fails as a means of thought.
Marsh, instead of running away, get some balls and confront me. BobSpence1 is even against me. Ad hominem abusives are flying. And the term fundamentalism is going around without a proper understanding of the world in retrospect to the etymological understanding and the usus loquendi understanding.
So, if you DON'T have a way of knowing, just tell me. Then we can move on to another topic regarding atheism. I have yet to meet an honest atheist regarding this specific issue yet.
So be honest. Honesty is a Christian trait, and is antithetical to atheism. But try. To be honest is to be a Christian, to be a liar is to be an atheist. So perhaps it is impossible CONSISTENTLY for an atheist to be honest.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
OK Folks... I am officially calling shennanigans
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
Am I "Marsh"? If so, I wasn't talking about you, you weird little dude. I was what, in the biz, we call "on topic" and talking to the original poster about her inquiry.
?
Who are you talking to, and what the heck are you even talking about ?
Doesn't matter, he is only jacking off again.
Sincerely and not respectfully,
CJ
edit: Apologies, I'm respectful to anonymouse, but not to Jean.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Same here. Jean is an evil turd!
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
His God is a narcissist who is scared to have his creation know too much.
Jean believes he is in the image of his god, ergo...
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Natural brings up a good point: it is very difficult to get a penis to do what you want, or pay attention to reason.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
The "Prison System" is the funniest so far. I doubted you were kidding until you equated socialism and the prison system with atheism.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence