Culture Clash
Offline Hello everybody. I've been away for a while, sorry about that. The reason I was here so much for a while was that I was working out a few things for myself where my beliefs are concerned. I pretty much accomplished that goal, so there was nothing left for me to debate.
I've had some interesting experiences because I like chatting with the Arab guys. My noble explanation, and I do say this sincerely, is that I hope to get to know better how they think, and hopefully show them that not all Americans are anti-Arab bigots. It's just me doing my part to form a bridge here and there across the world, since I believe we are a global community now. Yeah, yeah, round of Kumbaya anyone? But it's true. My less-than-legitimate reason is that I think they grow their males damned handsome over there, but that's not a discussion for here. Strangely, I've spoken to very few Arab women; the only Muslim women I've encountered in chats are from Africa and so far all the ones I've chatted with have been apparently trying to get a green card out of me. In a lot of these other countries, I don't think women are allowed anywhere near computers, or any device that might make their day more pleasant, for that matter.
The first problem is that there is some kind of sick obsession with marriage. I'm still trying to get a handle on it, to be frank. My parents are divorced and while I'm sure it's a very beautiful union when it works out right, I have no burning desire to be married to anyone. But especially if they know how old I am (38), they will inevitably ask me if I'm married. I say "no." So they ask "why?" And there's the second problem. I am not ashamed of who I am, and I am damned sure not going to mince words just to protect someone's overblown religious brainwashing and superiority complex. "Because I'm gay," I say, matter-of-factly, although the guy today on FB I warned "you're not going to like the answer." LOL He didn't.
The first stage is Shock. It doesn't quite sink in right at first. You can sort of tell they're taking some time to process what I've just said, like "I don't understand..." No one in their entire lives has ever actually come right out and said such a disturbing thing, as if it weren't a huge problem. The second stage is Panic, and it's quite obvious. Their thoughts get completely jumbled and they don't really seem to know what to do with themselves. "OMAllah, what am I supposed to say to this sinner?!?!?" At least the Christianazis in Bumblefuck, Alabama (no offense to Alabamans) know immediately that they're supposed to hate me and bash my skull in at the first opportunity. No questions there. "FORBIDDEN!!!" I'm warned from Cairo. [Actually, I've heard much different stories from gay guys who've visited there, but I won't go into that now.]
The next and final stage is Straw Grasping...the straws being Islam, of course. I have to sit and listen to a barrage of passages (likely misquoted) from the Koran. See, that's what a good Muslim is called upon to do in the face of this abhorrent lifestyle: lead me back to Mohammed. I'm not scared. I've been able to convince pretty redneck straight guys that I'm not a bad person just because I was born with preferences different from theirs. But man, these Muslim guys are a tough crowd. Getting into my whole spiritual philosophy would probably be as bad of an idea with them as it turned out to be on here, but I try to just gently break it to them that I'm not religious and nothing they can say will change that.
The Egyptian guy today had the nerve to bring up Adam and Eve, and I need to have a small rant about this. If I hear the "Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve" argument one more time I'm going to have a big old gay hissy fit. Every person on the planet descends from Adam and Eve, right? Adam and Eve had only two children: Cain and Abel, both boys. That's what the bible says. Hence, one of those two sons quite obviously had sex with HIS OWN MOTHER. Right. So loving another man is an abomination, but screwing your own mother is perfectly fine. I'm sorry, but those biblical literalists are fucking sick. I countered with that, but this guy ignored it.
I basically told the guy, "look, I try to be a good person and treat people with kindness and respect. I don't need any holy book to tell me that's the right way to live." Ultimately he did agree with me. Maybe you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, I don't know. We'll see if he says hello next time I sign in or if he'll chicken out and hold fast to his religiously-sanctioned hatred.
Ryan
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Nice to see you around again!
The problem is that Islam doesn't have much of a reform movement, and the Koran is crystal clear about how bad homosexuality is. You're not going to meet a 'good', traditional Muslim who accepts you for what you are because that would be contrary to everything they've been taught.
Now you might find some hippie or ignorant western Muslims that are fine with it, but honestly I'm not sure how they can rationalize being Muslim and accepting a homosexual, because the Koran really is super-duper-really-really clear about the issue. Even worse for a gay Muslim...I'm sure they exist though, because people can rationalize absolutely anything...there are gay Christians, and Christianity is about as clear about it as Islam...it is just easier to justify not killing homosexuals for a Christian because of the whole Jesus, 'love everyone' thing and a couple centuries of reformation where the religion modernized and westernized.
Good luck, I hope you can get some hot Arabian Nights.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Hey Ryan,
Have quite a few muslim buds irl, and their reaction to my gayness varies from "don't care and allah doesn't either" to "your life is worth less than a that of a pig. So there".
You know all the fun Suras to quote when you're talking to muslims, right ? Just in case you don't :
"And there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."
"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who will seem like scattered pearls to the beholders."
Have fun.
Well, I often do ultimately get some degree of acceptance, whether they choose to forget I ever said it or realize nothing is going to change it, I don't know. Some have immediately broken off communication with me, but not all. I'm sure they already think America is a continent of sinners, anyway, so in the end they probably decide it's not that surprising.
I've read a bit about this and it seems to be a tough road they have ahead of them. As you said, Christianity has had the benefit of a slow evolution and temperance as a part of Western culture. But the Middle East confronting the global community is sort of like taking a group of people from the year 500AD and plopping them down in the middle of Times Square.
Yes, they do exist, and I've spoken to quite a few of them. Some of their stories are very scary, desperate for any help in getting to the USA or anywhere because they quite literally fear for their lives. It's a whole different level from dealing with repression and shame as in this country before 1970. I can't even begin to comprehend it.
You guessed correctly that I would not at all mind being stranded on an island with Naveen Andrews.
LMAO That is so awesome. Is that what the Koran promises its faithful believers in heaven?
.............and those who wish they were. Muslims condem homosexuals and alcohol drinkers equaly, curtesy of the Prophet. Then one only has to read the "Rubaiyat" by that devout muslim Omar Khayyam [ Omar the tent maker]. In the poem Khayyam takes his boyfriend to a place " where the names slave and sultan are not known." and there with a "...loaf of bread....a flask of wine, a book of verse and Thou... Sing of wilderness...and wilderness is paradise" {Rub 11.}.
The Rubaiyat is nothing less then an ode to gay love and wine drinking. I' m guessing Muhammad woke up one morning with a hang over and a naked fat guy beside him. From this the old prude decided that no one else should have fun either. Well fuck Muhammad like the fat ugly guy did and drink wine till the next harvest; then drink some more. HAVA NAGALIA!!!!!
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Yeah, I've read about that. Honestly it doesn't surprise me much. A society as repressive and misogynistic as theirs I believe actually breeds homosexual activity, much the same mechanism that breeds this kind of atrocity in the catholic church. If you're going to celebrate male sexuality and excuse its potential for predation and animalism, demonize and forbid female sexuality, and hide every woman under a sheet or out of sight completely, what else can you expect?
Naveen is Indian... but he did hammer one of his teachers at the age of 16, so he is something of a personal hero to me (along with Fualaau)
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Meh, his image came up when I Googled, "Hot Arab Man". I know he was in Lost, that's about it.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I figured as much. I simply used the opportunity to advertise how much I am into older women.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I thought I'd remembered that he was Indian. The Indian guys are equally as hot.
And btw, for a guy who professes to be straight and hot for teacher, you seem to know an awful lot about the sexual history of this male actor...way more than I ever knew. What's that all about?
It's like I said, he's a personal hero. Nothing more.
But still... I professed to be straight? Where?
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Mmhmm. Likely story.
That's usually what being into women means...