Someone asked about another forum with more theists to debate. Here is one.
There is an interesting and "alive" forum. In a few days I have already got a punch from the moderator, but I am still not banned!
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16044&start=20
Unfortunately, I am not so careful in my choice of words, and I am not so dedicated to disprove typical logical faults as many of RRS gurus.
For instance, I would love to answer this one (this one is from a bible study goer, not a weird atheist)
"At the risk of becoming the social leper around here, I'm going to go ahead and ask how you arrived at the moral conclusion that slavery is wrong. For the life of me I can't see the secular basis for the sanctity of human life and the autonomy of persons, on which, presumably, a condemnation of slavery must be built. Our lives seem to be spent in servitude to powers we rarely control, and under determinism we have no true autonomy."
(here: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16015&start=40)
But I am afraid, I will be banned from that forum for ever.
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Hah! I'm a member - since 2004, last visit before today was in 2007.
What's your username there?
We could be a pair of shit disturbers.
I'd do it for kicks since I have no desire to actually debate christianity. I much prefer the company of atheists.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Same name as here. I'd say the most people there are atheists, or 50/50 maybe. The forum is much more "intellectual" than topix.com for instance. And there are quite a few "disturbers" on the forum. These days I am on a "vacation" from RRS. I find RRS lacking fresh theists to debate (Jean was an anti-religious jerk) and this I found is one of the reasons for topics like "who's vegetarian" so we atheists can find some topic on which we may disagree.
I don't know, maybe RRS should make occasional mass visits to some other forums time to time?
I asked about other forums, and I agree that RRS seems to be overwhelmingly atheist. That's not a bad thing but if we all agree in principle makes for some boring debates. Not to mention any theist brave enough to come here would get ripped apart. Even the more intelligent ones don't stand a chance. I'll look for you in this new forum. I just created the username Ktulu. I still enjoy reading the old debates on here.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Answer: It isn't necessary and it causes undue suffering. It is a net moral negative in almost every conceivable situation.
That is, if you base your moral system on something like, 'increase health, happiness and general welfare/decrease suffering'.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
"At the risk of becoming the social leper around here, I'm going to go ahead and ask how you arrived at the moral conclusion that slavery is wrong. For the life of me I can't see the secular basis for the sanctity of human life and the autonomy of persons, on which, presumably, a condemnation of slavery must be built. Our lives seem to be spent in servitude to powers we rarely control, and under determinism we have no true autonomy."
This paragraph in itself warrants a good and lengthy answer, however, if you read the initial post, it asks :
"How do modern Christians justify this to themselves? Are the parts concerning the beating/owning of slaves "god-inspired" or not? Keep in mind all the horrors that have been caused by the enslavement of other human beings, which presumably would have been foreseen by the deity Christians usually believe in. "
It's just more of the same "We don't have to prove God exists, you have to prove he doesn't." argument.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
At school we had to sit through a clip, where a christian philosopher or theologian or something is ranting about the pointlessness of an atheist life. A couple of class mates of mine started to say that I had nothing to say to that. I had, but after about two minutes or something they already started to walk away. Of course they won't admit defeat.
Anyway, the argument went like "Without god there's no ultimate purpose, because the universe is going to end anyway and no objective morals, so no reason to do any good" My answer was that honouring a god doesn't make your life more meaningful (why would god's happiness be more important than our own?), an infinity of time makes your choices pointless as well, because it doesn't matter what you'll do, after an infinity you'll have arrived at the same level of goodness or whatever. I continued that god's morals aren't so objective and absolute as people would want, because the Bible is multi-interpretable, people bend it's words and these morals don't matter since you have grace.
Also, if people want to debate people on forums so much, why don't we make a three-part forum, with one part atheist-only, one part theist-only and one part for debates? That way you can discuss debates with your own people, and there's some safe space for people who aren't experienced in debating and everything.
That whole "ultimate purpose" rhetoric is probably the one argument that I get the most.
I always just flip it around on them and ask them this :
So, your telling me, that if you found out there was no god you would be out committing all types of heinous crimes against humanity because nothing would matter ? Says something about you doesn't it ?
It's real easy to demonstrate that there is nothing moral, good or loving about religion. But like you said, they usually just turn and walk away when their arguments start getting refuted. It's also easy to point out to them that all of their so called "morals" do not come from god but from themselves in the way they reject/accept certain tenets of their god belief to suit their own personal lives.
I always throw this quote at them from when they start that :
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties. No religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death --Albert Einstein
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
The reason I stopped going to forums like 4-Forums and debatingchristianity is because I got sick and tired of reading all the pseudo-science and bigoted, religious crap from ignorant lemmings.
If I should get in the mood for an argument, I know where to go.
For those times (99.9%) when I enjoy the company of intelligent atheists, I know I can count on everyone here.
I might even go so far as to ban theists altogether from this site.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
I too like the website the way that it is.
However, I would not want to ban the theists altogether. The rebuttals to their arguments and other interactions have provided me with some really useful ammo in debates with people in the everyday world and in other forums.
I DO like the majority of the membership here being Atheist because there is so much logical/rational input here on any issue. But the debates are somewhat fun for me.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
But what's the point in debating psychos?? I've tried debating theist before but some of them are so far gone they've lost touch with reality. It's like banging your head on the wall since they've lost common sense!!
How do they react to the TRUTH that Jesus is just a MYTH? No eyewitness accounts or even contemporary accounts and we have MANY records from Roman times during that period that don't even mention his name or ANY character in the bible!!
HOW the hell do they explain that not a single historical document exists that corroborates ANY bible character EVER existed?? They have to be downright delusional to try and justify that!!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
Interesting. Because if you go to a theist forum there will be various doctrinal differences and if you ask the atheist to conform to a prescribed doctrine of sorts they will say they are like cats. They can't be herded. They can't be taught to fetch.
I think it is because they still deficate in the dirt and bury it. [There is no reason or ration]
[Laughs] Uh . . . actually, I think you grossly overestimate the atheist's ability to debate.
I see the majority of atheists [the majority implies the thousands of atheists I have debated with in the last decade and a half - minus 2] as anti fundimentalist fundimentalist. You are almost all the thing which you hate most. Most retard theists are not as devoted to the cause as you are the anticause. You are rebels without a clue.
I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!
Besides, we have the advantage of being right
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Actually you are out of your element. You have no idea what you are talking about. You see . . . if you are going to criticize the Bible that is one thing. Better be on your guard when you talk to me. When you gather 'round to slap one anther's backs that is another. What do I have to work with?
I think I'll wait to respond until you've moved past this funk you seem to be in today.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Well, this is an obvious attempt to antagonize but let's see what you have here. Atheists by definition do not hold to a doctrine (a set of beliefs). The belief (as in faith) is what sets us apart from theists. Let me see if I can simplify what you just wrote above. "If I go to a believers forum, they all hold a set of unfounded beliefs, if you go to an atheists forum, they do not care for unfounded beliefs. " I'm ok with what you said so far. Then you attempt some levity with your cat 'analogy' (fails miserably and makes you seem as though an atheist beat you up for your lunch money, repeatedly)
Lets define atheist because you seem to have an issue understanding the term. This is what wikipedia has to say about it:
"Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities."
I fail to see how that affects someone's ability to debate. As for your other rambling about 'fundimentalist' [sic]... not quite sure how someone's degree of dedication to what you call 'cause' is determined by their theistic affiliation, or lack there of.
You make nothing but unfounded ad hominem attacks. What, pray tell, type of theism do you adhere to? Perhaps we may have something to debate after all.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Awww, the poor wittle theist has nobody to share in his delusions, and this makes him feel all lonely. This is just a wild supposition, but I believe that the majority of atheists on this site have better knowledge of the Bible than you do. I would even say that we have better understanding of the Bible. Again just meaningless suppositions, I'm sure you know all about making those. Furthermore, I venture to suppose that the majority of atheists are more moral than most theist. Lol, two can play this game.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc