"If you want people to pray for you, we need your money!"
Offline http://www.christianprayercenter.com/ <---------Total scam designed to take gullible people's money
The other day I saw the link here on the top of the page, and thought 'Hey, I can go there and send out a prayer request for people to give up the insanity of religion!'. So I start an account, urwrong, since they require that, and I think to myself 'Ok, it's a message board service or something, they require membership.' But I get to the point where I write my "prayer" request and it actually requires "seed" money for it to even go up onto the site. We're talking at lowest like 5-10 bucks! The reason I bring it up here is that I really wonder how many Christians can tell this is a scam? I could see a message board service where people talk to each other and ask for prayers cash free, even though I think it's silly I can see people feeling a sense of solidarity just knowing other people are rooting for them, and that feeling of social support can be very important. But asking money of people already in a bad situation (or they wouldn't be desperate for prayers) before you even pray for them seems worse then being a vulture. The vulture can't pick it's survival strategy, but a scam artist can! Oh, and don't take that the wrong way anybody, I have a soft spot for the biological recyclers of the air!
So I was wondering what these people are doing with this money, and if there is a way to deal with it so no more people in desperate situations find that place and are suckered in by it's bullshit. I may disagree with the religion, but people, no matter who they are, getting scammed sickens me and gets me so angry I want to scream.
I've been think about putting up a youtube video or something about it. Something like 'If you think you need prayers for your tough time in life, and you disagree with me that you need the prayers to help, go to one of the many free religious message board sites where you can explain your situation and ask for prayers, which many of your coreligionists will probably have no problem doing for you, and which doesn't charge you since that's an obvious scam.'
Am I alone on this one or do other people get pissed off like this when even the people who we disagree with get scammed in their desperate times?
Just another reason I fucking hate religion...
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
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Yeah, that is disgusting. The FBI has a page for web fraud - maybe they should check it out.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Unless they are stupid, they have some kind of disclaimer in their "terms of service" which would protect them.
$5-$10! Hell, I will pray for you for only $4. Send it to me via paypal and I will prey (ahem) I mean PRAY all night long. But don't wait, this deal will only last for a limited time. Or you can save EVEN MORE by pre-ordering your prayers. By 1000 blank prayers for only $3000 today so you have enough to get you through the year.
Taxes and fees not included. Results are not guaranteed by BS Ltd, any complaints about unanswered prayers should be forwarded to God, Jesus, Mary, Allah, Vishnu or Zeus or the deity of your choice.
On a more serious note, I have a hard time working up too much sympathy for people who get caught up in bad scams. If some idiot really believes they have a long lost relative who died in Nigeria and left them $100 million dollars they probably shouldn't have money anyway. I have a little bit of sympathy for people who get caught up in really well ran scams. I have a hard time working up alligator tears for the people who buy into this one.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
XD
I know, it's so obvious that it's a scam!
I feel bad for people who have been caught up in this kind of shit because most likely the adults who raised them forced it into their skulls, just as those very same parents had it drilled into theirs. These people never had a chance to learn how to think about these kinds of things logically, leaving them screwed in the head and being milked most likely for life. That's where my sympathy comes from on this one. Now the Elmer Gantry's on the other hand...
But maybe it's because I was raised to question everything and I can't comprehend having to break free of some mental spell, woven around my head by all the people who I'm supposed to be able to trust. Which is probably the reason so many stay to get used...
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
The government really needs to step up the regulations and not let intentionally dishonest people hide behind "caveat emptor" grey area laws.
Dude, I was watching TV late one night, and there's an infomercial from some religious organization selling tiny plastic viles (the kind you need to puncture with a needle) of 'Holy Water'.
FFS...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
See, that is the kind of thinking that scares me. People are getting scammed so the government ought to do something about it. The problem is that the only tool the government ever brings is a hammer. I don't need the government telling me what products are good and which are scams. I am perfectly capable of researching and thinking for myself. I have been ripped off before (by perfectly legal and legitimate companies) and I learned some valuable lessons, the world keeps spinning.
People need to learn to think for themselves and some of us will learn the hard way. Having government regulations thinking that they will protect us from scams just makes us more vulnerable to them. With google providing you with instant reviews and warnings of less than honest advertising, government regulation is less necessary than ever. Look up the companies you do business with yourself. Don't trust government to do it for you. As a matter of fact, it is good to trust no one to do anything other than what is in their personal interest unless you know that person on a very personal level. And even then it is sometimes bad to trust them.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
isn't this how philanthropists are 'charmed' into giving churches their money? "Give us a tithe and people will pray for you"?
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I have more faith in government being able to establish reasonable guidelines to eliminate products that have no independant unbiased controlled scientific studies to back up extraordinary efficacy claims, that can be proven to be no more effective than a placebo.
Not true.
This is a strawman.
FDA guidelines are an attempt at being reasonable, in regards to claims of efficacy.
Read that statement back to yourself.
That sounds scary, in my opinion...
I couldn't agree more.
However, I still have empathy for those who are not skeptical enough, to their own detriment.
And I think it's a form of protection that the government should provide, in order for people who cannot ascertain whether something has any actual merit, or if it is merely placebo.
I see that as a benefit to society.
Something I'd rather see a poor effort at, that no effort at all.
That's all I'm saying.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
So every product that is ever offered should receive some government stamp of approval before it can be sold? Even if the effect is a placebo a person might decide it is worth the price just to have the placebo effect. Who are you to tell them they can't waste their money?
Lol, you obviously don't have much experience working with the FDA. The FDA is very much a hammer and a bulky slow moving behemoth of an organization. Now you can argue that since food and drug safety is extremely important and lives are at risk that the slowness of the FDA in exchange for safety is a worthwhile trade off and I would not be inclined to argue. With junk products or scams like these prayers you are not dealing with health risks, you are dealing with some idiot losing a few dollars. The former might call for a large governmental organization, the latter simply isn't damaging enough to justify it.
Yep, read it. And stand by it. Life is scary sometimes. The only way to get through it is to make a million mistakes. Everyone will learn something the hard way and sometimes it sucks.
There is a big difference between having empathy for someone who does something stupid and setting up a government organization to prevent that person from doing something stupid. I don't think the government should be in the business of deciding what products are rip offs and which ones are quality. An attempt to do so would certainly lead to mounds of regulation that would slow down legitimate products while doing little to nothing to prevent scams. What about the shake weight? or the Abdoer? Should they be illegal? They sure don't work as well as advertised. Maybe they have some benefit. Personally I am inclined to believe they are a complete waste of money. But why should I want the government to decide whether or not they have merit? (using my tax money to make that determination) Carbon credits are a complete fraud. But those who buy them do get what is promised- a tree planted somewhere and a good feeling. So while I think it is a waste of money and a scam, it certainly shouldn't be illegal. To me the prayer thing falls in the same category.
Your a big boy now, if you get scammed or hustled learn from your mistake and don't repeat. Don't get mad at society or government because it didn't protect you from being foolish with your $10.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
No, that would be a complete waste of time and resources.
Just the ones, as I mentioned, that one might substitute for something scientifically tested, that might carry a serious consequence or detriment.
Like substituting some holy water to sprinkle on their gravely ill infant, because they've been convinced by misleading claims that it would be better than getting a proven medical treatment for a serious illness.
That kind of thing.
I understand that ideology.
Someone who sees pragmatism in intervening at times, and values it more that simply sticking to an ideology, self indulgently.
Not directly, no.
However, I have worked in the biomedical engineering field, and have also worked in a different capacity for Glaxo Smith Kline, and have made friends there, who left for ethical reasons, and have divulged many aspects of their unethical practices, some of which you can find on the internet, in the form of fines for illegal business practices, including collusion with doctors, and 'payola' for overarching in the recommendation of drugs to people.
I'm not so inclined to agree with you, however, in this instance, I'm very much inclined to say "Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't"
That's good, because there have been many instances where poor systems were the direct causes of people dying needlessly.
Same with water quality regulations and systems.
I've also done work in that sector.
I'd say you're merely speculating that, more than anything. I could easily claim that's merely a confirmation bias.
You might be completely right.
But, which is the lesser of two evils?
You're biased that it's mostly benign. But, what's the cutoff for 'benign'?
Some innocent people causing themselves to be harmed, or worse, or setting a precedent for completely misleading scumballs who exploit the weak and desperate to not even think about pulling that kind of BS.
Would anyone be die as the result of government putting in a base level requirement for claims of extraordinary remedies, that could qualify as 'miracles'?
I doubt it.
That would be the lesser of two evils, by a landslide, IMO.
In my case, I have no problem with that, as I'm a natural born skeptic, and more knowledgeable than most people I encounter.
But, I wouldn't say the same for my brother. He's been grossly mislead many times, and relies heavily on me to 'check things out' when the stakes get high.
Which I'm happy for. I worry about him.
Right.
Like the ideal that organized religion is something that should never fall under the scrutiny of the government, or that the government and justice system should never intervene.
Scientology could very well be the very impetus for lawmakers to revisit that line of ideological practice.
You're kidding right?
Then why don't you scrap all city bylaws and building codes, since you'd value that over the systems in place to give you reasonable assurance that your house won't collapse on you, or burn down, or breathing the VOC's from offgassing of composite materials won't form a lump of cancer to start growing, and so that any companies can build right next door to you and your kids, no matter what the consequences to you and your family?
BS.
Do you have any idea about UL certifications, and the various self regulations systems of ISO, QC that countless companies put instream in order to mitigate potentials for legal liabilities due to personal harm or death being the result of their products or services?
Is China's model more appealing to you?
I don't know, man. And I'm not interested in going through a endless list of things to do a play by play.
This is about speaking in somewhat broad terms, for me.
I'm totally with you on that. It's full of loopholes. But it does put a focus on lowering carbon emissions.
So, I'm not going to complain.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion, and that you debate about it in a civil manner.
I'm not concerned for me personally, at all, and I'm not angry.
It's just me thinking out loud.
It's merely an academic discussion for me.
But, I'm not one to adhere to a dogmatic view of thinking it's best to keep the governments at bay, in terms of regulations, and ethical standards.
I see that kind of dogma as being more of a problem, in virtually all instances.
In any event, I'm not willing to get into anymore of a heated debate about it.
I'm just not that interested or feel strongly passionate about it all, nor do I completely disagree with any, or all of your points.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Before I got my email better updated, I used to get emails from princes in Nigeria and emails from supposedly lonely beautiful women stranded in Nigeria that just could not wait to make my aquaintance.
I used to just shake my head at the sheer stupidity of these emails. They were poorly written and had the word SCAM all over them.
How some people fall for this is just totally beyond me. I am supposed to send them thousands of dollars and credit card information so they can send me my millions ? ?
A few years ago, I encountered this group of young dudes, new to the biker world, who were going around and actually expressing interest in trying to create a motorcycle club. (This should have been a tell-tale sign that they were out of their league and were clueless).
Anyway, there was this huge tri-state event about to take place and one of them actually asked me if I knew someone "cheaper" that would trailer their bikes for them. When I asked what they meant by this, they told me that this guy offered to do it for ten thousand bucks. But they weren't sure if he was telling the truth or not, since no one anywhere had heard of him, since he refused to meet them face to face, would only communicate with them via a cellphone and wanted to be paid cash in full, up front. They said they were having trouble raising all of the money.
I was like, WTF ?
Let me get this straight, you want to form a motorcycle club, but you wish to "trailer" your bikes to an event ?
Your gonna give a guy that you have never met personally ten thousand dollars on the day of the event to haul the bikes there ?
Their answer : Maybe we should contact the cops.
My answer : I don't really care what you guys do at this point, but you might want to seriously reconsider your ideas of how to do business. I would also advise to stop advertising all of this nonsense about forming a motorcycle club. Your probably going to wind up getting your asses handed to you by the wrong people.
If I had been crooked, I could have offered to do it for eight thousand bucks and probably ripped them off. But, I don't have the heart to do something like that to stupid people.
Really puzzles me though.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
With that kind of stupid, simply being ripped off might save their lives in the future.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
delete double post
My morality framework is getting looser and looser the more I hear about scam artists making serious coin at the expense of the general public's gullibility. Don't be surprised if 5-10 years down the road you read about me getting caught running some major scam from my basement. I'm really on the fence now, I have a decent paying job that keeps me interested, but these people are literally rolling in it. And it seems like all of my friends are buying into this woo new age crap... There is some serious business opportunity here, you just need to make it sustainable. I've read a fair amount about this crap to have a general idea of how it works. I just need to dedicate some serious study time... food for thought.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc