Do we have a worldview?
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This is my recent response to a topic on debating X-tianity. I think that it might be even more productive to ask here if my idea about the atheistic worldview makes any sense.
ORIGINAL POST: NoisForm wrote: I would be interested in seeing if someone is able to tell me what my 'worldview' is, based on my being an atheist (While this isn't intended as a direct response to Jester's post, it was one of many that inspired the question).
Alternatively, many have described atheism as a philosophy, a religion, and I imagine many other terms that are appropriate for far more comprehensive collections of ideas, views, etc.
While such a term may be applicable when speaking of Christianity, I've a difficult time accepting that any of these terms are appropriate when describing a single position on a single claim.
For this post, I'd like to focus on the term 'worldview'. A couple of definitions to keep us on track;
A comprehensive world view...encompassing natural philosophy; fundamental, existential, and normative postulates; or themes, values, emotions, and ethics. (Wiki)
1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group. (Free Dictionary)
I self label atheist because I do not accept the claim 'god exists'. Based on this, could someone please tell me what my (and presumably every other atheist's) worldview is?
For a long time I inclined to think that atheists have no worldview just because they are soooo different. Liberals and Republicans, Stalinists and Pacifists, etc.
I am now considering that there is a belief that might be fundamental to all atheists and thus forming their worldview. I think that probably most if not all atheists believe that everything that happens with them and the universe is due to our actions and natural processes. ... well maybe due to aliens too. 
If this belief is common for atheists then it forms the worldview according to definition #2.
?
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My philosophy teacher once said that religions were the cause of civilisation. I told him I disagreed. He then said that religion just means world view, and not per se a world view about the supernatural. (Although it seemed like it was his intention to deceive us about it, since he knew everybody 'thought' religion meant religion)
I'm not even sure if atheism is a world view. Some of us don't believe in free will, and some of us do (right?). So there are still rather fundamental differences between us (I don't mean fundamental in the sense of... you know those creationist indoctrinators, just that it's our basic belief...)
Worldview? Is there a worldview that results from simply not having a belief? This sounds interesting.
And if we have a worldview can we now start building stone huts to expose that worldview? I wouldn't mind being the chief inquisitor....
Cogito, ergo sum: I perceive, thus I do sums.
I think you are likely correct. This seems to apply to most atheists. We are usually atheist because we can not find any evidence of natural processes acting in a way that is contrary to what we understand about that process.
I read a sci-fi book about earth's assigned goddess had to be away to do some other task. And so when she returned, she made an asteroid leave its path once, then twice, then strike the earth. Contrary to all laws of momentum and energy. She said this was to demonstrate without equivocation that she existed. Okay, I could get behind that kind of evidence.
But outside of a sci-fi book, we have no such evidence. And so those of us who are atheists can stand firm on our world view.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Rejecting nonsense?
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I dunno...has anyone ever seen data on what percentage of atheists are physicalists/naturalists/materialists/etc?
If you say, do rationalist, skeptical physicalists have a shared worldview I would agree with you. I'd have to see data about a more broad claim though, I just don't know many atheists in person....most of them I do know are from Humanist organizations but Humanism is already a subset of the population who agree on a worldview.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Recycling it.
Composting it?
I think everyone has a worldview and Naturalism in whole or in part would describe the worldview of many atheists.
But calling atheism a worldview is like calling bald a hair color...Atheism is the rejection of certain worldviews.
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml
Sorry Kap, I just had to...
Atheism only states a position on ONE issue, being the existence of a god, and our "off" position on that naked assertion.
If you read enough threads here, you will see that we are diverse in how we think humanity can go about problem solving, economics especially. Beyond Saving and I are both atheists and would agree that gods and superstition are not needed to live life. BUT, we disagree on economic issues and how to solve national dept problems and could not be more different on that issue.
Christianity is a religion, but belief in Jesus is not. They too can all hold the same belief in Jesus, but hold different ideas of how the world should be.
So no, atheism is not a world view. I think if anything will help humanity get it's priorities in order and get over violent tribalism of any stripe, it would be to treat individuals as individuals and take the priority off of utopia solutions to problems.
"World view" is a nasty concept. It is another dogmatic utopia cliche that assumes that problem solving is simple and not complex if others would "just do it my way".
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I thought it was just another buzzword when I heard it, and that opinion hasn't really changed... It seemed like an attempt to make a category in which to place any broad-sweeping ideology so that one could compare them. Philosophers have attempted to abduct "important questions" that worldviews answer, but I think a lot of these question are loaded, such as "Why am I here?" -- it assumes there is a teleological end (read: purpose) to my existence. Who's to say there is one? Anywho...I when I start reading such stuff, I'm critical of it.
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
Of course, atheism is not a worldview, but the question is if there is a more or less common worldview that most atheists share. If Christianity is a worldview then one should admit that the approaches to solving economic problems, moral issues, etc. can be quite different from one Christian group to another.
Do we share a common view that the universe was created in a natural process and the life on the Earth was created in a natural process?
I suppose that's implied if we reject supernatural causes...
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
Well, some worldviews would be inherent in not being religious. There's no way around that.
It's them that divorce themselves from a natural reality, when they adopt the belief of a supernatural sky daddy.
But even within Judeo Christian beliefs, there are many variations, and they're offshoots of the Abrahamic faith, so, there's dissention in the ranks.
Since I don't know how many people actually contemplate the origins of life too deeply, I'm not sure we can say there's a 'consensus' among people who are atheist.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I like to think that our worldview is common in that we are all skeptics, or open minded. Sadly, that's not so. We all reject proof of God. That's about the only commonality I was able to establish. That hardly is a worldview, yet I wonder. Being free of fear of god does make one different, at least I feel differently. I can't quite put my finger on it, it's almost as if a certain 'limitation' in thought process is no longer there. Prior to becoming an atheist, every time I wrestled with a moral dilemma or metaphysical question, I would always reach a certain threshhold in my though process where I would just give it over to God. It is liberating in one way because it takes the responsibility from you, also makes ultimate questions so much easier
. I like to think that said threshhold is no longer present in all atheists, but we all have our personal equivalent of God I'm sure.
This would almost constitute as a basis for a worldview IMHO. Not being limited by an excuse. Or rather, taking ultimate responsibility upon oneself for one's actions.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
What the heck is the christian worldview? It's hardly a coherent, universally objective worldview. I was thinking about the morality of the bible walking to work this morning but honestly I don't see a repository for this virtuous teaching.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I bet you, atheists recycle, and adopt pets from the human society, and don't cut people off on the roads.
I have this faith that atheists do.
I can feel it in my heart, I can see it.
They have morals.
It must be true then, y'know...
I think that 'logically' proves that atheism is 'true'
I think it's 'completely' rational to believe atheism is 'true'.
I guess that proves that William Lane Craig is wrong, when he says that he thinks that 'Atheism is false'.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
That's a good point, really...."Christian worldview" isn't specific enough to actually convey information...I'd need to know what particular branch they follow at a minimum and even then you're probably only going to be half right without knowing more.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
So maybe all you can boil it down to is something like, "Atheist=?70%? chance of monism" and "Christian=?95%? chance of dualism".
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I don't reject proofs of god, I just haven't seen any.
I mistyped, I meant to type 'proofs'.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Mayhaps when I'm given proofs to reject I can finally become a good atheist. As of now I simply haven't seen any proofs to reject.
Cogito, ergo sum: I perceive, thus I do sums.
It is an "atheist worldview" only in the sense and to the extent that most atheists hold that worldview, if, indeed, most atheists hold that worldview.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Cite?
Cogito, ergo sum: I perceive, thus I do sums.
If you get your hands on a copy of a universal atheist manifesto, you'd know what it is....
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Being the first theist to post on this thread and considering I am a person that on occasions writes on an atheist forum and on an conservative Christian blog... I have a general idea what it is to be both... I do this to put my ideas under a fierce attack.
Suffice to say in none of these extremes I am loved!
On the contrary!
Atheism really mean a disbelief in a God, on it's classic definition, nothing more. Although there are more or less commonalities among atheists and believers. Of course there are always exceptions!
Almost without exception besides the disbelief in God, atheists don't believe in any sort of universal moral, and continuity of life after physical death. Although in theory these things could be independent from a "God".
Atheists are more left sided and progressivists and believers are more right sided and conservative.
Atheists cite scientific articles to make a point whereas believers cite think-tanks from their arenas to make a point.
There is also interesting differences in philosophy, more specifically in meta-ethics and Philosophy of the mind. Atheists are markedly physicalists whereas believers are dualists (it seems that since Plato and Aristotle this discussion has never ended)
Their similarities are in their egos and bigotry, I think the rates of this are the same in each group.
Believers are more closed minded and reject with all their strength every thing that goes against what they believe.
Atheists are not so closed minded... but sometimes forget something very important; "What was once considered supernatural is today considered natural" "What was once considered eccentric is now considered widely accepted". The difference is understanding. Reality surprises us and I have a gut feeling that many incredible discoveries awaits us. I believe that there is more to reality than physicalism.
I think that is fair, and matches me (Edit: My. I am not Popeye) experience. I post on some conservative forums as well. Well, I agree outside of your dualism pitch
I'd be interested to know the exact ratio of political ideology among atheists.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
A dictionary?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Actually I sort of misread. I think it can only be an atheist worldview if it is a direct result of atheism as a philosophy. Since I know not of any philosophy of atheism I tend to doubt that we can thus have an atheist worldview. The cite I was looking for is something to do with atheistic philosophy.
Cogito, ergo sum: I perceive, thus I do sums.
Like what was said in previous posts, atheism is simply a lack of belief in God.
I don't like when people use the term "New Atheist" or anything of the sort. There is no such thing as "new" atheism and "old" atheism.
There isn't a worldview that every atheist holds [besides lack of a belief in god] and no belief that would disqualify somebody as an atheist other than the belief in God.
Theists can't figure anything out some of the simplest things, it seems.
They can't even comprehend what an atheist is, which is probably why they don't even realize that they're atheists as well.
Theists are just 1 god short of graduating to universal atheism...
Or the parallel, "1 fry short of a Happy Meal"....
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism
Are there atheist that do not believe in a temporal existance? Does that not qualify as a world view?
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
Oh no, not by a long shot. I have met too many atheists to think that atheists as a general rule reject nonsense - that is not even remotely true.
We do reject one *particular* brand of nonsense and on that we agree. It is also included in the definition of atheism.
It is for that reason that I say there is no atheist worldview and that the idea itself seems contradictory.
I was never aware that atheists had a worldv iew outside of not believing in god(s). As for the rejecting nonsense....only in the sense of deities. I know atheists that believe in astrology, ghosts, have various superstitions, healing power of crystals, universal consciousness and a WHOLE bunch of other nonsense.
But for everyday morality/world views it seems to be more based on the society they grew up in. The common moral choices of that society or the current society they live in tends to be the moral choices they tend to follow. Although a large majority tend to be law bidding citizens and very few if any I know (besides myself of course) that have ever really done anything against the law. On the other hand I know many theists that have broken the law from drugs (taking/selling) thefts, assaults and even blackmail. Kinda odd that way....actually most atheists i know have tried weed. But many of the theistic friends have done far harder drugs.
I agree with the definitions, yet if you follow the conversations on here, there is a pattern developing. I'm not sure if that constitutes a 'worldview' but definitely a world perspective. What I mean is the pattern of follow the 'Why?'. Even when we disagree we ask why, and the other person obliges 95% of the time. we keep asking the why until we are satisfied. Also we try to apply logic to our reasoning. ( By 'we' I'm referring to atheists ). Furthermore, I only consider atheists individuals that have arrived at an atheistic view through reasoning. Simply, claiming that god does not exist without a rational claim makes one an atheist at this moment in time, but since one hasn't invested any reasoning in the process, one could just as easily be a theist in the immediate future.
This is as reasonable as I found a theistic perspective to get. Tim Keller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxup3OS5ZhQ
He advocates tolerance, and it seems as though he follows the 'Why?', but he always stops short of satisfying the reasons he gives.
What I'm trying to formulate is a worldview based on an application of said method to facets of life. The only thing that would vary is our moral frame of reference. So for any given issue, we apply the same logic, but draw different conclusions because we assign priorities, or moral weight, differently.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Yanno, this 'worldview' thought that some theists have, is really new to me.
It didn't make sense to me at all. That 'non religious' people would have anything in common, other than the 'one' category.
But, if you think about it (which, admittedly I never did, because I never gave two chits what a bunch of deluded people thought) they're 'see' everyone who is a 'sinner' (sic), or 'not devoted to god', as a 'collective'.
Which is natural for bigots.
I even started a thread about trying to pinpoint the origins of it, here:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/28936
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I don't apologize for my views on different aspects of the world; why should you?
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Like Terry Bradshaw said, "Keep it simple stupid" or the acronym KISS.
Our worldview is basically Jesus is totally mythical, as real as Daffy Duck, and Christians are batsh*t insane!!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
describes a world view as "the fundamental cognitive orientation of an individual or society encompassing natural philosophy; fundamental, existential, and normative postulates; or themes, values, emotions, and ethics".
Wiki's not always the perfect source for information but this definition seems reasonable enough to me. The thing is, atheists do have a world view, but atheism is not it. I'd suggest our world view in many ways mirrors that of theists but with obvious differentials.
In many ways I venture to suggest our values are identical but we find different paths to the same destination. In daily life most christians don't run around thinking that the internal combustion engine is driven by magic or that electrons are sent from god.
In any case, a world view is a complex thing, shared and subjective. You couldn't call a world view theism any more than you could call it atheism. If you think about it, a worldview has to be big enough to encompass religion as well as the other multitudinous imperatives we face in daily life.
Humans are much bigger than religion.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck