Argueing against Mega-Chruches
Offline Hi,
This is my first post, so, please forgive me if I screw it up. So, the average Christian, I can generally tolerate listening to their point of view and politely debating it, though I admit that I am lazy and tend not to do enough research to counter their arguments. I just find it sort of silly, like, ahh, practicing to fight the boogie man under my bed, or catch the Easter Bunny. Anyway, one particular breed of Christian that I find it particularly difficult to tolerate are those who attend Mega-Churches. The first thing that goes through my mind when I see one of these is, "How many mouths could that feed?" and isn't this sort of Idolatry? And didn't Jesus tip over the tables of the money changers in some temple? ok, ok, I know; the bible is a collected work of fiction. My point being, aren't mega churches sort of the pinnacle of christian hypocracy? Anyway, I am genuinely interested in finding a nice debate foothold to take while discussing this with mega-church goers. I am, in general, a very polite guy so, I would prefer not to overtly insult people. If they don't like my argument that is one thing, but the, "Hey pin head" stuff I don't care for.
I really hope that someone responds to this post...
So, here are my question(s):
1. Is there a biblical argument against mega-churches that I could whip out?
2. Is it just me or are mega-churches actually more offensive than just the everyday churches?
3. Is there a biblical argument for requiring churches to pay taxes?
I personally don't have the patience to read through the bible fully, much less memorize relevant phrases which illustrate not only there contradictions of the bible, but, might be used to enlighten a believer. I never have. I was wondering if any of the more scholarly types here might point me to a short course in relevant biblical references.
- Login to post comments
I think you're asking the wrong people, honestly... I'd post this in CARM's forum or something like that to get a response.
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
Welcome aboard. I would say that you are a bit more tolerant of delusional religion than I am. Just to give you a tip, it is really not that hard or that difficult to find some good refutations of their silly arguments. It is practically a mouse click away. Now I know fully well that I am not probably going to be able to change their minds, BUT you never know. Some people on the fence out there might get more serious doubts when they hear some really good arguments against religion. Just saying.
I used to be one of those nutcase theists. Raised in that background, came to a point in my life where I could no longer accept it. Had it not been for the counter arguments, the scientific proofs against it and the atheistic community, I do not know where I would have gone with that.
So for this reason, I make it a point to be an out in the open Atheist in my everyday life and constantly have to defend my position. Granted this is only a personal choice on my part and not something that I am suggesting for everyone. It is something I almost define as my life's work. Even though I have to make a living in regular old blue collar work
I currently live in the Bible Belt. It does seem that there are many mega-churches in just this one city alone. I often marvel at just how many huge churches and mega-churches that I have to drive by on a daily basis. Almost all of them are constantly trying to pry into the local politics and create more theocracy type rules. Even the largest local newspaper in this city has a "faith matters" column that tries to hide behind the "spiritual but not religious " lie, but is very annoying.
The pastor of one of the largest churches in this city actually has the county sheriff's department block the main highways and direct traffic so that the church people can get a majority right of way going in and out of his gigantic mega building. It creates a terrible traffic jam, I wonder how much money that costs.
However, I find ALL churches offensive, not just the mega ones. I think the mega ones are a good testimony to the grandiose greed of these frauds that perpetuate their superstition.
There are those on here that are more well versed in Bible verses than I (I haven't picked up a Bible since the days of being a theist and do not intend to). But there can be an argument for everything made from the Bible. Just do like the Christians do, pick and choose the parts to suit your needs. But as for specific verses on that, some of the other members would have to help out.
I know that in the Catholic Church, there were many long standing arguments over whether the church should be poor or not. Just like some of the religious orders, like the Franciscans, whom take vows of poverty and claim to follow in the footsteps of christ. Judging by the wealth and the influence of the former catholic cult that I once belonged to, I would say that the greedy heads pervailed.
Again, welcome aboard. Hope you find the answers to the questions that you seek.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
This bears repetition.
Confessions like these from ex-theists, carry much weight, with moderates, and those who sit right on the fence, and who simply go through the motions, for fear of being a 'black sheep'.
Much moreso than comments and criticisms coming from 'atheists', because of how atheists are 'demonized' by religions, and how theists are conditioned that atheists are 'ones' who will try and 'strip you' of your faith, and other such rhetoric and hyperbole.
People like 'Banana Man' Ray Comfort allege that the bible calls atheists 'fools'.
Religion resents anything that undermines their position. It's no different than any other totalitarian regime.
They resent 'information', that is in conflict with their dogma.
Sucks to be them.
We've evolved from the Age Of Enlightenment, to the Information Age.
The 'jig is up!'.
The 'internets' just don't care.
Science just don't care.
The truth will always emerge.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Well, yes and no. As others have pointed out, this isn't exactly a new debate in Christendom. If you want to find verses that support the idea of small-group churching you can find them, but there isn't anything definitive either way.
Short answer: No. You're not going to be able to find a silver-bullet verse that bans mega-churches.
Besides, do you really thing the people going to mega churches give a damn what the Bible says? Seriously? The whole point of mega-churches is to soak up money from a bunch of weekend Christians and reaffirm everyones cultural biases so they feel good about themselves. That's it. They aren't going to care about anything you tell them that runs contrary to those motivations.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
That is such a cogent observation. It's a legal, non taxed, organization, who's fear mongering manifesto, teaches and condones violence, murder, rape, stealing, bigotry and hate mongering.
No if, and's, or but's, about it.
And there's idiots who want to argue that 'not being' religious, and 'not believing' in a god, is 'illogical' and 'irrational', and 'false'.
It's pure schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia
" Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it difficult to tell the difference between real and unreal experiences, to think logically, to have normal emotional responses, and to behave normally in social situations.
Causes, incidence, and risk factors
Schizophrenia is a complex illness. Even experts in the field are not sure what causes it.
Genetic factors appear to play a role. People who have family members with schizophrenia may be more likely to get the illness themselves.
Some researchers believe that environmental events may trigger schizophrenia in people who are already genetically at risk for the disorder. For example, infection during development in the mother's womb or stressful psychological experiences may increase the risk for developing schizophrenia later in life. Social and family support appears to improve the illness. "
Quoted from PubMedHealth
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I lived in Georgia for about 13 years or so. I've just moved to Texas. For me, I can tolerate a bit of it, but, I will unwind pretty quick if I sense someone is using religion to manipulate. The average christian is just following the social programming they received as a child. So, sometimes I find it easier to have a laid back discussion with them asking them about faith, etc... My favorite question to ask a christian is if they know where the bible comes from. You would be surprised how many have no idea. They also think that the writers of the stories in the bible where alive when Christ supposedly was.
in the 1980's I worked with a cult "de-programmer" pulling adult children out of bible based religious cults. He knew the bible forwards and backwards and, as long as I worked with him (I was just security), he always got them out.
I guess I was just wondering if there were any biblical scholarly types that had a few arguments one could use against mega-churches. I think somewhere in the bible it says, "render unto Cesar what is Cesar's" which many have interpreted as giving the government the right to tax. So, I like to argue against having a Tax free clause for churches.
Every church has its politics, sexual misconduct, heap loads of hypocrisy. However, the Mega-Churches for me are just incredible monuments of hypocrisy. Hence, I like to pick on those believers first.