The New Wave in Lynchburg Christian theology??
Offline I was approached recently by a Christian friend of mine who took a great interest in me because he could not understand how anyone on Earth could live life without Jesus Christ. Despite his theology, he is very kind and not judgemental toward me, and in return, out of respect I treat him the same. In my experience it is very rare to find a Christian that I like, or have the ability to debate with on a level that stay civil. We came to an agreement after quite some time, that when we meet, I would talk and bring up some issues I have with the church, and he would also be allowed to share his opinion and his view on the questions that I have. A topic that he brought up over coffee one day really caught my attention. I won't say his name, or the name of the Church, or the denomination, but I had some insight into a "new" way that his church does worship. In a small way I got to see from a grassroots level just how the Christian church is trying to revamp itself in my area in an attempt to reach out to younger, more vulenerable people, or, to snag people from other churches who are fed up with the "old traditions". I had to see this for myself. The main part of their doctrine goes like this. "who is this man Jesus, and what can he do for me?". They cover everything with a new vibe, divorce, addiction, even worship. Phase 2 is what they call it. They take jesus, and god, and do their best to make it Hip and Cool. It is without a doubt the scariest thing I have ever seen. The two guys that run the place are....get this.....a gay couple from Canada.....They consider the Bible as the one "perfect" source to get to know God. This new evolution with worship is attraction younger members by the hundreds in my area. It made me aware that people are getting sick of the suit and tie type of worship. The Pastor doesnt have a pullpit, he wears jeans while standing on a theatrical stage, they have big screens that propagandize all the efforts they take to "spread the message". The only way I can describe it accurately would to paint a picture like this. The place is huge, they have a deli, a coffee shop, traffic conductors, a nursery, daily and nightly meetings. It is completely modernized from the ground up to be completely different from all other respective forms of worship in the traditional sense. They have a band...a rock band........It reminds me in a sick way of how the tobacco companies try and hook new smokers. Same old crap that is not good for you...but wrapped up in a different carton with a different label. Make no mistake, this non denominational craze is taking over. In 10 years, they have gone from meeting in a double wide trailer, to a massive building that can house thousands of people. 3 services in one morning, and sometimes have to turn people away due to fire code. The Chirstian religion is starting to transform in a serious way, a way that purposely targets younger people and children. They know deep down that people are slowly but surely starting to think for themselves and this is a last ditch effort to brainwash people before they have the ability to make decisions on their own.
I told my friend thanks for the experience, I needed to see it for my owns eyes so I could scale just how deluded he truly was. People like him have a deep seeded need to believe, not to think. He even bought me a bible....poor guy. Logic means nothing to these people because their doctrine is one based on faith, they don't need logic or proof to believe what they are convinced is truth....
All in all, it was a scary yet humbling experience going into the Lions den.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche
"Whoever feels predestined to see and not to believe will find all believers too noisy and pushy: he guards against them."
Friedrich Nietzsche
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“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” : George Bernard Shaw
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
That is an excellent quote. Thank you.
That's living proof that man evolved.
Ya, you're not going to find brilliant quotes like that, when you're like this dufus...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
A rock concert is already similar to an exciting church service in a lot of ways. During a nice song, everyone stands up in conformity and pour their emotions out, in both cases. Making the church even more modern and hip is an effective tactic. They have to mess around with powerful group psychology to maximize their revenue *ahem* "donations."
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
that is very true
This is not a new tactic, though I have not seen it taken to this extreme. In my late teens, in Ontario, Canada, near Toronto, there were several churches that organised youth night. Various churches did this on different days of the week. A number of teens and homeless would get together in a church basement, they would serve a meal (actually pretty good) and then they would set up a make shift stage for a local band. The band was never Christian when I attended, and other then a Lord's prayer before the meal, and a request to 'spread the word' at the end of the night. I used to go with my long haired friends because of the free meal and band. Looking back on it, it was a pretty good attempt at conversion. All the symbols were there visually in the church, none of the pressure that teens dread, and the mass hysteria created by the 'concert', would culminate in sense of belonging to the community and the church.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I've often thought that church was little more than Sunday morning theater.
There is a reason they used to used saloon-style, or popular style tunes in the churches of the 1890s. They wanted the drunks to feel more comfortable on Sunday morning with their hangovers... just enough to drive home the guilt.
Remember the old hymn "In the Garden?" I always thought of that tune as Baptist Porn. "Oh, he walks with me and he talks with me, and he tells me I am his own and the joys we share as we tarry there - none other has ever known."
Churches must evolve and adapt to survive. Even if they don't believe in evolution.
When I went to church, I was once asked to sing a duet of that song. I remember thinking then - joys - hmmmm. Then I told my naughty mind to shut up, that was not the proper attitude. But I could not quite shake the image and darn near lost it during the performance.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
I think it is EXACTLY the right attitude. About three weeks ago, I was playing for an Episcopalian church service (subbing for a friend) and I told the ladies in the choir my thoughts about that hymn. They never sang with so much gusto as they did that sunday.
Before I became an educated atheist I met my biological family. I was put up for adoption at the age of 6 and didn't find them until the mid 90s. That was when I was calling myself an atheist, but was not online talking to other atheists.
ANYWHO, upon my first face to face meeting with my fundie brother, he took me to his favorite mega church, thinking the experience would convert me. It was quite the opposite. It pissed me off. I was horrified that I used to believe all the claptrap they were selling, and on top of that the condescending "chosen people" crap they were joyously singing about.
It took every bone in my body not to shout, "YOU DONT REALLY BELIEVE THIS BULLSHIT DO YOU?"
It sucks that believers think you hate them or their god, when the reality is that you hate what humans do to their own brains in convincing themselves of this superstition.
When I lived in Lynchburg I used to hate having jobs that would require me to enter Falwell's college. But I got over that quickly when I realized that I was "sliming" their campus with atheist cooties.
One of the best practical jokes I witnessed ever pulled was by a college mate. We attended another area college, not Falwell's of course.
He called into admissions at Liberty pretending to be a parent. Small talked to get the woman who answered the phone to buy it. Then he went through a list of questions, over a 5 minute period about all the things YOU CANT DO on their campus.
"Is it true you cant drink on campus"
"Is it true the opposite sex is not allowed in your room"
"Is it true you cant hold hands in public"
ECT ECT ECT ECT ECT
So the last thing he said before he hung up was
"If it is true that you cant do all those things then why the fuck do you call it Liberty?"
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
This is a pretty popular new way of doing church. It's called the "seeker sensitive" model. It's a calculated effort to mimic the things they think "worldy" people want, only they put a Jesus spin on it. It's ludicrous and there's been quite a backlash against it from more traditional churches. In my youth group days, I was real into Christian heavy metal, but after a while I thought "why listen to this shit when the secular guys do it so much better?" It's their way of being "in the world, not of it", but to me, it looks like having your cake and eating it to.
http://csmith1974.wordpress.com/
Reminds me of these poseurs...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Yea, that was my thought too. This happens every generation, nothing new. The good news is these organizations are always more likely to adopt secular morality. The bad news is they aren't, at the root, any more reasonable than anyone else.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
My brothers-in-law are die hard Stryper fans and they go to their concerts whenever they can. I was just visiting my in laws a couple of weeks ago and they were all excited to have a new Stryper album. I just smiled and nodded when they handed me the cd and hoped to the great nothingness that they wouldn't make me listen to the damn thing. The irony is that their new album features covers from bands like Judas Priest and Led Zeppelin.
http://csmith1974.wordpress.com/
S'ok.
My damn bother listened to them and bands like Poison all fricken' day long, when he was young.
He knew it the whole god thing was a gimmick.
He made up for it by listening to WASP, who's gimmick was to throw raw meat, out into the crowd...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris