I've been thinking about the scenario in which the Arab nations combined with Russia gather together armies to destroy Israel. Geographically speaking Israel is slightly larger than a couple of soccer fields, why would it take this massive combined army which would require equally massive logistical requirements just to destroy Israel.  A single ICBM fired from a few thousand miles away would do the trick and even if Israel possessed some sort of missle defense system all that is need is to simply launch more ICBM's than the MDS can defend against.  I guarantee that a few of the MIRV's would still make it to their target.  And if nuclear contamination is an issue there are still conventional munitions whose destructive capability dwarfs anything that was ever used in WW2 or even Viet Nam.  Regardless of the details the concept of using massive armies to destroy an enemy is obselete in the age of push button warfare.

  Also I can understand the Islamic nations childishly wanting to destroy their arch-rival but why Russia ?  Why would it matter to them ?  Natural resources are out of the question as well as Russia is still the largest nation on Earth ( it spans eleven time zones ) and possesses natural resources out the wazzoo, including massive oil reserves within Siberia.   None of this makes sense.

  I'm aware that the Soviet Union is dissolved that's why I didn't use that phrase.  I suppose I should have referred to them as the CIS ( Commonwealth of Independent States )  but that is a term that is rarely used in the media.  My point remains, Russia / CIS still possesses military capability as well as vast natural resources.  Even with the loss of its client states Russia still spans 11 time zones and remains the largest nation on the planet.

 Edit: I checked CIS on Wiki and revise my incorrect definition. "Russia" will suffice for my arguments.

 

 

  Well, it might be off on few things.

  Yes, China is no pushover militarily speaking but I mentioned the Russian Federation because all the prophecy freaks like Hal Lindsey claim Russia, not China, is supposedly going to invade Israel at some future date.  My question still remains...why ?

There was already a post regarding these individuals.  They believe the world will end on May 21st, 2011.  Here's a CNN link:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/03/06/judgment.day.caravan/index.html?hpt=C2

I think following this cult around and creating a documentary near the 'end' would be very interesting.  I would love to see their reaction on May 22nd, 2011.  Some of these people have left their entire lives behind.  I wonder what becomes of their faith as they realize they were wrong, doing a follow-up a few months later would be cool interesting also.  Here's a quote from the article:

We're not talking about intellectual giants here, but I think something can be learned, or exposed by documenting this.

 

 

say that it was pretty FUCKING (yo, Brian) funny....

Hey is your intro completly from revelation or other books in the bible as well?

 

since no one else is getting this thread going I might as well.

Have christians figured out what part of the planet jesus will be descending from?

 

 

Bear in mind this dumb subjective shit was written by some faux John the Baptist while he was high in Alexandria about 1500 years before America existed. That's the great thing about prophecy. It completely excludes everything that follows after it. As for how it's meant to be carried out, well ymalm, that falls nicely into the category of 'we weren't meant to know'.  

 

One of the intersting things about it is that the old testament never mentioned that first of all his name would be jesus that would have helped a bunch and second that he would be killed and then come back to life and then descend into heaven at gods right side(what does that even mean can they not go places) and send the holy spirit to guide his disciples to all understanding and then come back and destroy all the atheists, muslims, jews, hindus, satanists, and any one else who didnt agree with their theology and reword the believers with an eternity of worshipping god.

It seems the old testament was talking about unversal salvation on earth, am I right?

Have you guys heard of this site.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWLCvideos?v=Odfopc9xYHU&feature=pyv&ad=8346141313&kw=&gclid=CLu8ztfRj6gCFYqW7QodlkTWCg

I really think that if christians believe that the trumpets represent events that have happened and will happen then we can falsify the bible.

There is apparently supposed to be great devastation to humanity at the sounding of these seven trumpets.

I love how the first video says the book or revelation is the fathers will to allow us to fully understand the final events that are to take place on earth. If he wanted us to understand he shouldnt have made it so vague.

Do they actaully think literal trumpets will sound?

My grandma thinks the earthquake in japan is part of the warning of the end times but earthquakes have been happeing at this magnitude even in moses(well the time the stories about him were written) time am I right? Why doesnt god cause an earthquake in las vegas since after all its "sin city".

The whole bible is vague, it allows the religious to make up shit in their head to fill in the blanks.

What I think is interesting is that even if it was real jesus should not want to associate with most of his followers. Its like how some christians say they are christan because there is evidence but some christans like my grandma and other older people say they dont need evidence thats a tool of the devil and shit like that. Does that mean god will only reward the christians who have reason to believe and not just because of fear of death or hell? It can't be both either god cares about reason or he doesnt. Also I can see that all of the bible is based on this whole thing about us deserving death but the story of adam and eve is unjustifed reason for punishing them and plus there is no reason for their descendents to have to suffer and you know what else all adam had to do was not have sex with eve to have kids why didnt he just do that. Plus he could have just killed each kid he had until they died there was no reason for them to multiple plus didnt they see that what god did to them was a setup I guess they were dumb but then again tha kinda gives away that it was written by men are we really to believe that the way thta conversation went in the garden actually happened its just one ignorant person takling to another(god included). Also why do animals have to die. Plus why do new humans have to be created from previous humans I guess that means we are not individual created beings since its up to your parents to have kids and if your destined to be born than that means that everyhting is simply a script playing out in front of god since he would have had to dictate all the things that led to each individual human being being born. Couldnt he just make all the different people he wanted right then why just two humans what purpose does that serve in the story. Plus if that were true than they couldnt have been white people the way they are portrayed in pictures since dark skinned people were probably first, right? Not saying there is something wrong with the first people being dark just that jesus is portrayed as white which doesnt make sense if people were darker starting out(not enough time if its only been 4000 years) and creating differnt skin colors causes racism and god could have done away with that if he had just made everyone the same not that being differnt is bad but apparently alot of people have thought so through the ages.

I guess I was just ranting trying to show just how fucking stupid these stories are and that anyone even takes them serious. I can honestly say even though I used to be a christian that feared god I never took these stories at face value I was always suspcious of them actually being true. I think if you were never a questioning christian than you will probably never give up your beliefs cause your brain just isnt geared toward critical thinking.

Yeah I think that says it perfectly about the fake reality. I am always second guessing myself. My whole life I related everything back to a god that I talked to and asked for help all the time plus I was very much a anti social person(not by choice I was just always afriad of people) and I guess got comfort from god but also would feel huge amounts of guilt for looking at porn and having wild sexual fantasies. Some of it was guilt and some of it was thinking I could never have that kind of life and that heaven sounded boring(bascially god was a kill joy). I wish I had been an atheist when I was real young I might not have developed all these phobias. I would have had no trouble pretending to blaspheme a holy spirit. Thought crime always bothered me cause say the unforgivvable sin was to jump off a building and land in water(just saying) that requires effort to do and so if you know not to do it it would be easy not to do. But to say that you can't think sexual thoughts period when you are a sexual being and that you cant curse gods name even though the thought will come into your head is like a setup. I used to when I was in earlier high school used to get random thoughts like "fuck god" in my head and it would just repeat over in my head and it scared the shit out of me. I asked my dad if it was a sin to have thoughts in your head that were sinful and he said as long as you dont act upon them(or something like that I dont remember) I didnt tell him what I said I thought he would think there was something wrong with me. Than some years later is when I learned about the unforgivable sin and said the same thing in my head except this time with the holy spirit instead of god which scared me even more.  I told my mom about it and she said it was just a thought. It was weeks and it was still bothering me and then I went to a church with my mom and this preacher said that god hadnt left you and still loves you and I took it that he was talking to me. But looking back at it why did god let me go through those horrible feelings if it wasnt true. One time when I was in high school and having troubel mentally I asked god to show himself to me and as I was crying my dog came up to me(as was in the middle of a field and far away from my house) and put his paw and my knee and I felt better and started crying out of happiness(yeah I was hardcore emotional about that stuff). I know look back on it like my dog just came up to me because he heard me crying probably and that preacher was just saying the same old jargon he does all the time and I would have interpreted anything he said as takling to me. I guess I feel when I learned intellecutal why christianity couldnt be true I felt that all those moments didnt make sense. i guess I just have a hard time coming up with natural reasons for all that stuff happening. Plus my grandma said that I would never have peace as long as I stayed away from god which was a big placebo on me. I also have this irrational thought that if I deconvert someone from christianity that the wrath of god will be on me which doesnt make sense cause if I converted them its because I got through to them cause they see that is isnt real and thus there is nothing wrong with that. Its almost like god isnt real unless I do something bad. Its a real mind fuck.
 

Do you think that it is unhealthy that I hate the people from my church for all the damage they done to me. I can't stand my cousin cause if he had remained an atheist we could have been an intellectual force to spread reason and evidence and maybe convert other people in our families. But he was only an atheist cause he liked to drink and listen to heavy metal and I guess he wanted to be sinful and just brush god off. Basically like lee strobel reasons for being an atheist. he told me that god revealed himself to him and that he hoped that god would reveal himself to me someday. Serioulsy i cant fucking stand sometimes I wished when we die it could be shown to you that you were wrong I would love to rub it in his face.

i know this is a lot of text but maybe you guys will have some advice for me if you understand where I am coming from.

I dont feel that I am beyond repair and its not really that bad but sometimes these feelings of fear get really intense or I feel that I cant do something cause its a sin. Like I am a bad person cause I want to have sex before marriage. I try to justify in my mind why it isnt wrong and say marriage is just a human construct and sex is one of your primary functions.

Thanks for the recommendations.

Also I dont want to hurt someone or trick them into having sex. I would only want to have sex with someone who was also loooking for a casual hook up.

Back to revalation. Where would christianity be if the book of revalation had never been added? It seems they would be left with nothing but vague statements from jesus about coming before his disiplces lifetimes were up and it probably would have ended sooner.

The Bible wasn't talking about the modern nation of Israel. It actually was prophesying about Israel the band.

Yeah what you say is very true. Could you give me your knowledge of how the brain makes decisions or produces thoughts? I feel alot of this anxiety will go away if I can understand how my thoughts work. I still feel like blasphemy is a bad thing even if you dont mean. Or sometimes I trick myself into thinking I meant it even though thats impossible yet the rationale side want over take well it does but not as much as I would like. This kinda of guilt is just a waste I could say "fuck richard dawkins" or "fuck Thor" and I wouldnt care they are just thoughts inside my head and I need to fully relaize that so I can stop tormenting myself. If I had full control over my brain I would have never thought a single thought but the mind wonders. Its like you said that blasphemy is justified and the rationale side of me agrees but the other fearful side thinks about it differently.

 

So who's version of the Rapture is going to happen anyway? The Catholic version where the Antichrist takes over the world for 1000 years, then the rapture happens. Or the Baptist version where the Rapture happens before the Antichrist comes to town?

You can't view "theism" as having a unified belief system. There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 38,000 Christian denominations and most hold opposing views of scriptural interpretation or there wouldn't be 38,000 Christian denominations. For example, A Calvinist (Reformed Theology) in general does not believe in a rapture and many are either full or partial preterists. I will say that it is a heck of a money maker for Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye and others who capitalize on it's fear power. I hope this provides some information that can be useful to you.

Hey atheistext could you help me out on this question? If the epsitles were written first than that means who ever wrote the gospels had some reason to have jesus utter those words even though there is no good context surrouding the verse.

 

Every inch of this planet is subject to earthquakes, it is just that the more severe ones are felt because they happen around fault lines. Yellowstone is sitting on one giant volcano and over time as the mantle wears down, it can and will cause cracks that eventually can allow the volcano to blow it's top. No one knows when, but it will eventually.

And right in the middle of Virgina, I slept through a 3.9 if I remember the magnitude correctly.

Nature is far more awesome in it's destruction in reality than the stupid comic book villains written in antiquity to explain nature.

 

 

I got lost with work and stuff - will have another look and get back to you. And yes, I know how it feels when the fear comes back again and again and again. You have to accept that it will continue to come back for a while - that's the impact mental abuse has on kids - you are living with traumatic stress disorder and you don't realise it. But I can promise you that in time that pain will go away and you'll be able to look at this stuff with a different mindset. Can you see how strange it is that your reaction to your situation is fear? You don't love god, you don't miss having him around, instead you are terrified of what he will do to you. What sort of relationship is this to have with some one who loves you? It's macabre.

Again, you need to realise that you need to arm your mind with knowledge and with a way of thinking that has structure. It sounds to me like you have a lot of people around you telling you things and you are alone facing their dogma without a lot of comprehension of the alternatives. The first book you should read is Victor Stenger's God: The Failed Hypothesis. This is a straightforward book that covers all the basics in a way that is easy to comprehend that you can refer to often. Pay the 15 bucks and buy it on Amazon - it's worth it. 

And post specific questions in new threads so you can get help from guys like TG Baker, JGadfly and JohnPaul. These guys have solid bible and will nail the specifics for you. When it comes to clear thinking about what can and can't be known, what does and does not constitute evidence, keep an eye on BobSpence's posts. Don't let these god people lead you off into a land of assertion and threat that's devoid of all cogent evidence. 

And take it easy, mate. 

 

There is a good amount of evidence that the epistles were written before the Gospels.

 

The fact is that no one bothered to write down the facts of Jesus' ministry. Much of his life is not written about at all in the cannonical gospels. The gospels as written seem to indicate that Jesus could write - he was writing in the dirt at the stoning of the adulteress, and he is addressed as "Rabbi" which is a clear indication that he could write - plus that he was married, but that's another can of worms. So, why did no one bother to save anything he wrote, if he were that important?

 

What we have more closely resembles "the sayings of Paul Bunyon" than it resembles biographies of real people. Some verses have a reinterpretation in them, or statements that whatever was said was not properly understood at the time. Possibly to use to "shoot down" people who had other notions of what were no doubt popularly-believed attributions of what Jesus would have or might have said.

Clearly, there was someone or some group who had a reason for Jesus to be portrayed as uttering THOSE exact words, And, what's more, to have them said not once, but several times by several authors. It appears that the Gospel of Mark was one such source, and something else - often referred to as "The Q Document" - although it has never been discovered.

There is nothing in the canonical Gospels about Jesus life between infancy and a brief episode of when he was 12. Then, nothing between 12 and about 30 when he started his ministry. Certainly, he said and did a lot of things in there! Some of the apocryphal Gospels have episodes of him as a child which seem pretty fantastic.

When there is something as disjoint as all of this - like the lack of ANYTHING being written about him for nearly a generation, one has to wonder whether Jesus existed at all, when there are no outside references for his even existing, much less getting attention at all from the government - and the Roman government had to view him as a threat to the State if they were to have him crucified - and they would have kept RECORDS - which do not exist.

 

Many of the sayings in the canonical Gospels, and even in John were also recorded as having been said by Rabi Hillel a century earlier. The assorted miracles, the virgin birth on (or near) the winter solstice, the death and resurrection, are all features of numerous god-come-to-earth saviors or demigods at the time - from Horus to Mithras. One has to wonder whether Jesus ever existed at all, or if stories of his existence written much after his supposed lifetime were to add credibility to some religion and to help it gain power.