Am I an atheist?
Offline Hello Forum!
I've randomly read a lot of postings, especially the "answers" to the 89 questions. I find most of the answers silly, but I also consider most of the questions silly. There are really only a few types of questions, those based on biblical text interpretation and those based on God's power.
Can God create a boulder so heavy he could not lift it? The answer is yes, he could, and then yes, he would lift it.
Pure silliness.
In my own personal viewpoint I consider myself Oblivious. I simply don't care if there is a God or afterlife. I live my life by the morals taught me by the culture I was raised in, i.e. I try to do good, but sometimes fall short. (My advice to you warmongers out there, taking up arms for or against, just relax. It doesn't really matter.)
I saw the great debate by Mr. Sapeint and Mr. Comfort, and I am curious of the existence of Jesus now. Kelly's response was that there was no archival evidence of Jesus, but records can be expunged. Does anyone know of any actual proof that he walked the earth, regardless of whether he was God embodied or just a man.
As for the Scientific proof of God, the only reproducable claim I can make is a little similiar to Mr. Comforts third "proof". Personal experience, but not in the manner he dictated. If I relax and meditate, close my eyes, relax my body, and let my mind drift I feel I can tap into some kind of euphoria that seems greater than my own simple self or daily life. It feels like an endless flow of good energy. The only other time I get this feeling is when I am creating; painting, or writing, and then not every time. I am not sugesting that this is the "Hand of God" I am touching, nor am I guessing that it isn't, but I will state I think it is a common human experience, in that anyone can tap into it.
Main point, would I be considered an atheist or not?
Thanks!
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Nah you might be agnostic* read up on the definition of "atheist"
Welcome to the forum.
If we define an atheist as someone that doesn't believe in any god or gods, then you are indeed an atheist, in the weak sense that you don't take the position that a god(s) exists.
Ah, is it also possible that it is neuropsychology and not anything supernatural?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
It sounds like you have been an atheist up to this point.
The proof of jesus' life exists solely in the New Testament. There are some references in a number of other sources but they are widely considered to be forged.
The NT references rely on the literary historical method for their weight - multiple authors writing about the same person in a manner that suggests they are primary sources. Of course the NT is deeply biased and there are no independent references - if there were I would feel jesus probably existed.
Then there's the complexity of accepting that the son of god can be reliably identified by the historical method - or would want to be identified this way. It seems unlikely. There's a word for the extravagant supernatural claims made in the NT - it's called fiction. A primary source that records what jesus said to the devil when the 2 of them were alone?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
rob, agnostic atheist works for me. Sounds better than Oblivious.
I am not adverse to the idea of it being a psychological effect. Still works.
That's too bad about Jesus. I had hopes. I mean, take away the supernatural, and the modern concept of his parables and teachings, they are basically good. I mean, some people need a guide, you know? Ah well, no Shroud of Turin.
Read about the stoics or Cicero. The thinking that jesus' ideas about social equality sprang from thin air is farcical. The teachings of jesus are a product of the urbanised, multicultural Empire of Rome.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
First an anecdote. My sister in law is insane. I mean certifiable, lives in an asylum. I don't remember the exact diagnosis, the latest ones anyway, but pretty severe, can't function in society.
I attended a court hearing regarding her antics in the world, she had done something bad, something disfunctional. The interesting part came when she was on the stand and was asked why she had done these things. I quote:
"I am pregnant with Jesus' baby. He speaks to me at night and I will have his child which will be the second coming."
This woke me right up and I paid close attention to the judge, I was extremely curious how he would handle this. It was an obvious religious statement, right? And honestly did not seem much more delusional than what a lot of famous christians say, if you actually think they believe what they are saying.
The judge looked a tiny bit nervous and hesitated. He told her she could take her seat and then had her psychiatrist up on stand, and got her diagnose.
So, in this case, the religious aspects were totally ignored. I wonder what would have happened only a hundred years ago?
Anyway, just an interesting story, I thinks.
I was wondering if the euphoria I described earlier has been experienced by anyone else here? I have been reading a lot of posts, and recognize that a lot of you are previous christians. I was a christian, back when I was more ignorant and vulnerable to the brain washing, and I experienced what can only be called a religious fervor. This fervor is what Mr. Comfort and Mr. Cameron used as their third proof of God, I think.
What I discovered was that the feeling could be totally seperated entirely from religion or any concieved notions. In fact, I would state I think that all successful religions rely on it. Do you feel it, Brother?
As atheists do you experience anything akin to this?
Thoughts?
Moments of transcendent warm fuzzies? I do, on rare occasion. I usually refer to those moments as a "pantheist buzz" where I allow myself to concentrate on the world around me and stop focusing so much on my petty gripes. Unfortunately I'm a pretty self centered guy and don't frequently stop to take a deep breath and appreciate the sheer awesomeness of existence and my opportunity to be a part of it for a short while.
Every now and then though, it's pretty amazing. And lo', no imaginary sky-pixies needed!
His "not caring" attitude led me to agnostic.
Don't forget about "oblivious" as well.
Would be agnostic in my book.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I've begun calling these 'wondrous experiences', in contrast to 'religious experiences'. A 'wondrous experience' is exactly the same thing as a purported 'religious experience', but without any implication of anything super-natural.
I have, of course -- as every human in existence has -- had many wondrous experiences, and continue to have them all the time. Usually they are not very intense, just little "ah ha!" moments, or "things that make you go hmmmm". I've dabbled in mindfulness meditation, and have had some nice experiences. I tend to do a lot of day-dreaming, which is I suppose an active form of meditation, and had some really incredibly wondrous experiences of a feeling of 'insight' and 'elevation'. Some of my best experiences have been related to contemplation of scientific realities such as evolution, or the enormity/intricacy of the physical universe.
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has researched the psychological state called 'flow' -- which is IMO yet another synonym of what I call 'wondrous experience' -- and has given criteria for what conditions are most likely to lead to experiences of flow.
Michael Persinger has researched a 'god helmet' which allegedly induces feelings of 'spirituality' (not yet replicated) using strong magnetic fields directed at the temporal lobes (which are incidentally associated with many religious figures in the phenomenon of temporal lobe epilepsy).
And, of course, there are various drugs which have been called 'entheogens', some of which I may or may not have anecdotes about, which are capable of inducing intense experiences often compared to so-called 'religious' experience.
Such experiences are natural, physical experiences, that human brains are capable of experiencing via various methods and stimuli. They are real experiences. They do not provide any evidence for anything supernatural, however. Wonder is real. God is imaginary. You don't need a god-belief to experience wonder.
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