Queer people of faith
Offline As a total faggot, I sometimes wish I was born earlier, before the AIDS epidemic began. Why? Because, at that point in history, being queer also meant you were a skeptic and freethinker, if not a downright atheist. The guy you were fucking wouldn't have to take a condom out of his ass and go to church the next morning.
After the AIDS epidemic, we saw lots of gay men running back to faith. This is when the gay-friendly churches were founded, later to be follow by the gay Jewish and gay Muslim help groups.
As someone who was president of my university's queer organization, and someone who has been relatively active in the community (ie, sleeps around a a shitload), I will certainly say that queer people of faith outnumber those who are freethinkers. We even have queers who are "waiting for marriage." The only thing I'd say is notable is the high amounts of New Age faiths, such as Wicca.
Now, there was a good two years where my religion and my queerness overlapped, and that was because I couldn't think of a rational way to reject my religious beliefs, and my understanding of Islam had always been rather liberal anyway. But, when I did find a way out, oh boy did I jump off that boat.
So, honestly, for other queers here, or others with at least some vague familiarity with the community, does the high amount of religious folk these days bother you? Unlike me, not all of them want a way out of faith. Certainly they're not as dogmatic as the straight ones, but still, why do they resign themselves to religious groups, where 90% of the believers find their lifestyle and feelings an abomination, as opposed to a philosophical position that almost anyone who holds it affirms their rights? It's just moronic.
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It's not my conclusion. My conclusion is that charm doesn't resolve the moral, let alone safety issues a woman might have about doing that. That's the bone of contention I have with NoMoreCrazyPeople and rednef. That women sleep with charming men is a trivial generality. It has little to do with what stops women from fucking men immediately.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
How did I miss this little post. Of course they have to be over the top Bob, it's how I go about stressing things. Nothing strange about it. The problem is that people see this as a direct comparison of what I personally think and it is not, it is a comparison of idea's and in this case it was what I believe a religious person would consider. It was not what I myself would compare it too. I might compare vanilla icecream to dogshit if I am discussing someone or "someone's" who I believe think this way and hate vanilla icecream. I personally like vanilla icecream just fine so it really has no bearing on what I personally think at all. I could probably phrase this a little better but oh well.
Stressing something to get a point across about others does not mean it's what I think at all. Saying what they might be thinking is not what I'm thinking.
Make sense?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
But, as has been observed on another thread - it seems my opinions do not represent the majority. .. and I'm fine with that.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
So what if women sleep with men they find charming. It doesn't support the conclusion that women don't sleep with men immediately because they are not charming enough. It is of little value, importance or significance in terms of this issue.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
It doesn't make you wrong either, it's all in perception in how we see things. There is no right or wrong, good and bad, there is only productive and non productive (in the societal sense) and in some cases self serving, unless someone can point out definitively how your idea's are unproductive or self serving it's fine. Otherwise that's where the real debate begins.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Oh, absolutely. I was just saying that I expected to be strictly heterosexual, and was both surprised and confused when I discovered that I also had attractions toward the same sex. But yes, I think it is something that drives a lot of social interactions, especially at that tender and impressionable age.
Hmm, this is an interesting concept! I have not heard of the book before, but have often thought of how we are dominant in some situations and submissive in others. For instance, around men I feel much more submissive, whereas when I am attracted to a female, it is in a more dominant, take-the-lead sense.
And you are right, it is applicable to other non-sexual situations. My role varies depending on who I am dealing with. I'll have to check out the book, because that sounds like something I would be interested in reading more about.
Haha, everything is clearer in hindsight, I suppose. For now, I disagree, but you are definitely entitled to your opinion. For what it's worth, my mom (also an atheist) is of the same opinion as you.
Much like when you say that there is no God, are you denying the rights of Christians to go around claiming there is? You may not say, nor should you, "You don't have the right to claim that". But merely saying "There is no god" is not "politically correct". Suggesting that government and religion shouldn't mix is not "political correctness" no matter how much Christians might claim that.
Simply saying, "you have an unfounded phobia of gays" is not political correctness anymore than you would say to a Christian, "You have an unfounded phobia of atheists".
It boils down to data. Other than "I find gays yucky" what do people have? Nothing.
I find fat women yucky, so what.
You can claim whatever you want, I will never deny anyone that right. But merely challenging a claim is not political correctness.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
It's a generational thang, for sure.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
I'm not "denying" anyones right. They can believe a toothbrush sprang everything into existence and made up some rules if they like. I argue that this should not be used to manipulate or have an effect on other peoples real lives and the easiest way to do this is to argue against the initial cause, which happens to be belief in said nonsense. My having to point this out is very telling, Bryan.
Nowhere here did I say I had a phobia of gays and nothing I said could really have been taken that way untill after the fact. You are assuming, once again because you wish too mr. pc.
Why are you suddenly off on "finding gays yucky"? Mr anti bigot.
You dig your own hole so very well.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I wonder if you will notice what I did there btw.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Hey rob allow to take your thought experiment a bit further in a way that I think parallels your original intent.
What if there were a media campaign where members of NAMBLA ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American _Man/Boy_Love_Association ) publicly endorsed atheism ?
The peculiarities of their sexual habits are not the issue under consideration. Instead is anyone hear naive enough to believe that having the cause of atheism coupled to this particular group is going to soften the image of atheism in the eyes of the general public ?
[edit: I have no freaking idea why the wiki link will not work as I typed it in exactly as it reads ]
Yea I thought about mentioning nambla. It could be said that the gay rights folks way back (in the early 70's I think) distanced themselves from nambla for what I was speaking of. They knew it was hard enough to push for gay rights let alone tacking something insane like nambla to the bill.
edit: I didn't use nambla as an example before because it is a real example and they would accuse me of putting that with gays or atheism lol. Can't win when people don't want to take things the way you mean them.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
A guy once told me that "the only thing we have to fear is fear it's self" meant we should fear and that he must have been a terrible president based on this quote.
edit: (pointless addendum) we sharpen chainsaw blades where I work, to shorten a blade you remove 2 links then use a master link to put it back together. This same guy never could figure out why you couldn't just take 1 link out even though you have to have a master link to put it back together ... major brainpower.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
You could imagine what kind of "winners" would be signing up for this club, what a bunch of tools. You can study feamle psychology as much as you want, that won't help for the simple fact that all girls are different, and even the individual girls are different from day to day. Studying female psychology to get laid more is like reading a golf course flyer to improve your golf game. Any guy who thinks theirs like some "secret" trick to attract women is an idiot, he problabny watches late night informercials and thinks theirs some "secret" to getting rich too and purchased the 12 disk set for 6 easy payments of 29.99. You get rich by having a good plan, making good decisions, and working hard, that's it, it's not rocket science. You attract women by being comfortable in your own skin, making them feel comfortable, making them laugh, treating them as equals not worshipping them, being sexual enough to keep some tension (don't be the geeky puppy dog) but not to much that it comes off awkward or pushy, that's it it's not rocket science either.
Are you a girl wingless? If you are, It makes this guy an even bigger loser. It is unimaginable to me how a guy would use this as a pickup line of any kind, it makes me embaressed for the caliber of men out their. What kind of idiot would proclaim he is in a secret society dedicated to improving game (admitting he doesn't have any, which is why he signed up) and scoring chicks to a girl he is trying to score with, what a turd burgeler.
In my experience the biggest problem men have with "getting" women is they are blatantly trying to get women. It's embaressing, I watch these guys all over the place trying so hard, pumping themselves up, it's hillarious. My favorite thing to do when these guys are working their bunk game is casually make a joke in the girls ear about how he is a (something clever about his particular blend of idiot). Then leave her to be hit on by him/others for a while,glance over every once and a while and we both laugh at them.
Once I was at a party and met this girl, we were talking/laughing for about 15 minutes or so. Then these silly boys walk in loud, chest puffing away. One of the guys asked me if it was my girlfriend and I said no I just met het, she's fair game buddy. He sat down on the couch, and worked his best stuff on her for about 10 minutes right in front of me, it was awesome. "I work out alote, do you?" "You are sooo gorgeous" hahaha I just sat their with a smerk making jokes behind his back to her. He didn't have a chance, his mistake was making it obvious he was trying, it was awful, it often is from what I see.
A toast! To all the pushy guys who have no clue, if it wern't for you guys, it wouldn't be so easy for me to make them laugh at you with me...
Try this link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church
So are 90% of girls.
Spot on, dude !
And there you go, you found an exception just like I said you would, sandycane is the exception, not the rule. Also she is a little older (I'm not guessing how old) but I'm talking mainly about younger women here 18-35. For every "sandycane" I've met I've met 114 non sandycanes. And ofcourse their is nothing wrong with being very strict with your sexual activity, most aren't.
It seems to me, most of you view having sex as normal bodily function, no more special than eating or taking a crap.
I'm saving myself for someone special.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
There are many differents kinds of sex. Sex can very well be like a bodily function like eating, it is pleasurable and if both parties are concensual there is no problem. I have had alote of this kind of sex, however I much prefer sex with someone I care about. If you can't seperate your emotions from the act of sex then no you shouldn't be having casual sex. I see no reason to mix the 2 with every sexual encounter. I am manogomous with my partner for 3 years. If we were to break up, I wouldn't be waiting to form a new real emotional relationships with someone (which takes me years) before endulging in the pleasurable act of casual sex which has nothing to do with that.
I disagreed with you, and gave you my reasons why. And I stand by them.
I really don't know what grounds you have to your conclusions, except to assert them over and over, when I tell you what I observe is different than what you observe about human sexuality.
You simply disagreeing with me, doesn't even come close to being accurate with your observations, or conclusions, on the topic of human sexuality.
I gave a fairly detailed response to some basics of female sexuality.
I noticed you haven't even touched them, but rather, just kept talking past me.
Feel free to debunk anything I said. I doubt you can. Most of that you can learn from listening to women.
I think you're just trying to convince yourself, mostly, that it's very unlikely people don't just end up in bed together, very quickly, because of 'morals', or 'ethics', or 'fears', when simply it has more to do with circumstances and interaction.
No, actually, I am. Always have been. Some people really dislike me, but will fully acknowledge that I'm one of the most charismatic and attractive 'people' they know.
You just see, what you want to see.
In any event, your opinion isn't relevant, your wife might have a very different opinion of my 'appeal', if she met me, by chance.
I addressed very specifically the issues of how it works. You just seem to have a very different definition of 'charm', and perhaps think that 'sexually appealing' has everything to do with being 'nice', or 'polite'.
Maybe you missed it, but Sandycane quoted my entire response to you, and said that she agreed 100% (which I'm not even inclined to take too literally) with everything I said. Yet, her and I are diametrically opposed on a lot about the fundamentals of sexually intimate relationships.
As you'll soon see, because I'm going to challenge a few points she's made...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I've been listening to Luther, Barry, Al, Teddy and Marvin all evening... thanks to you.
'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein
Just for tonight then, Dawling...
But tomorrow we do it my way...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris