Correct me then

Nice trick, now explain how and why we would draw such conclusions

So if I simply went out and killed a few people, it is completely fine, their deaths are insignificant.

Even if people discovered that the universe was not spontaneous, causeless or source-less

Scientifically, it would still be purposeless and meaningless

Perhaps so, mathematically, if the universe turned out to be a mistake or an accident, but that we exist and can find purpose and meaning for ourselves says that such a universe's cause or source is irrelevant to meaning and purpose.

I liked the way you put it too. Half the fun in debating theists can be reading what other people are saying to them.

So explain why we don't and while you are at it answer my first question.

Nice try idiot.

The opposite is true. Deity gang clubs devalue the here and now and only value those in their own gang. The promise of an afterlife makes the here and now meaningless.

BUT, if it takes you clinging to a childish placebo to prevent yourself from going on a killing spree, by all means, keep it.

I value my life because it is the only one I have. I know I won't get any do overs or any utopia. This is it, THAT is what makes life worth not screwing it up to lose your freedom.

Ultimately billions of years from now, yes, neither you or I or any god mentioned in human history will be remembered.

BUT, that does not mean I want to do stupid shit now or hurt other people now just because I know my ride is finite.

I don't need the threat of a spanking or a promise of a cookie to do the right thing. I do it, because if I don't I will lose my own life or my own freedom. But more importantly, MY EMPATHY isn't based on fear or punishment or comic book super heros. My empathy for others is based on the fact that if we don't hurt each other my chances of reaching old age increase. Since I know I want to do that, I am well aware others want to as well.

Why you need to insert a magic invisible super hero into real nature and real human empathy is WHY our planet is still stuck in its superstitious tribal past.

So your question is "who cares if nothing matters"

I care you moron. I care because this is all I have and I want to live as long as possible. I don't need a fictional Santa in the sky threatening me or bribing me to do the right thing.

tl;dr

Purpose and meaning are philosophical opinions, notions of a human mind; such are completely irrelevant to science

Morals go into this category as well

petty restrictions placed upon the self for a sense of self-rightnous

Insignificant in relation to what? Insignificant to whom?

Your death would be insignificant to some person living on the other side of the globe from you, who would never hera about it, but it would not be insignificant to your friends and family.

Every second almost 2 people die somewhere on the planet. Do you find every single one of their deaths significant to you?

Now, imagine their is just one more planet somewhere in the universe where approximately 7 billion sentient creatures live, and factor in their deathrate as well. At which point does a single death of a sentient creature cease to be significant to you?

Yes if you killed a few people their deaths might seem insignificant to the universe as a whole. But so what? Their deaths would NOT be insignificant to their loved ones!

What a thoroughly un-thought-through statement to suggest that if one believes the universe has no purpose then murder is insignificant. Who is it supposed to be significant for in the first place?

I could just as well say that since the soul is eternal, murder is insignificant, because noone ever really dies. Therefore, if I believed in an afterlife I could just go out and kill a couple of people, because their death would be insignificant.

Now that I turn your argument around, can you not see how stupid it sounds?

Think before you post!

And?...

What are you talking about? Are you listening to yourself?

Society and morals are overrated, the only sensible way to live without rules. There's no afterlife just this life so people should just do whatever they want.

Let natural selection and social darwinism thrive.

Really, I don't give a shit if somebody gets killed or dies, in fact this planet is over-populated anyways so it'll be helping the Earth;

curing the disease that has been endlessly multiplying without anything to stop it

Are you listening to yourself?

Why?

What you describe is the opposite of evolution.

So why don't you kill yourself?

Huh? what the hell are you on? You're taking a nihilistic approach to morality and you question our subjective morals?  What is your point?

One of my favourite types of theists to get a hold of. They run out of arguments really really fast. And they look oh so stupid in the process.

no meaning that is not based on subjective human value judgments. That is all that meaning is from the perspective of a human brain. Science makes no claims over purpose or meanings - it searches for cause - and remakes its position in the face of new information.

Science offers the hypothesis that the big bang was the cause of the current state of the universe but this hypothesis could not be called a fully formed theory. And whatever came before the bang, if it happened in this way, is not yet proved and is the subject of intense speculation.

The centre of your argument is a strawman. The correct answer to questions of cause, meaning, source, prime mover, pre-bang, is an admission that we do not know. No one here will lay claim to the certainties you're implying you own.

Indeed. I find it the most telling evidence that christianity is morally bankrupt.

Welcome to the forum, someguy5.

It is accepted by moral subjectivists (note that atheists are not necessarily moral subjectivists) that we cannot declare any of your actions to be objectively wrong. That is implied in the definition; if we did not bite the bullet on that, then we would not be subjectivists. This isn't an issue for anyone that really understands the subject. Past that, you don't really have an argument. We will still assert that your morals are "bad" in the sense that we don't like them and oppose them for that reason.

Someguy,

What I object to the most is the absurd idea that if ANYONE doesn't belong to another's deity club, they should automatically be treated as if they are sub human. Just as you'd find it absurd that the radical Muslims in the east consider both Christians and atheists sub human.

I got mad at you for implying that because we do not buy your fictional friend, that somehow we are not capable of being law abiding and incapable of human empathy.

As others have said, and I have said, is that our "place" in all this is finite and long term IS meaningless.

HOWEVER, that does not make the here and now and the life I have as an individual meaningless. I do not fool myself in thinking that I am important to the survival of our species. If I had never been born, another sperm would have produced someone other than me, and our species would continue.

THAT DOES NOT mean I don't find value in myself. I am perfectly capable of finding value in what I have now. I am perfectly capable of valuing a pluralistic civil society.

Your question to us was "If it is all meaningless, then why not be lawless and go on a killing spree".

Knowing that the movie you go to the theater to watch will end, doesn't prevent you from going. Going to a football or basketball game, knowing that someone will win and someone will lose, knowing that it is finite, and will end, doesn't prevent you from enjoying it. Nor does the fact those things end, entitle you to murder the patrons of movies or sporting events simply because those events are finite.

MEANING is what we have now, not ideological comic book myths, by any name. You can enjoy eating a meal, but you know the meal is not infinite.

Life does not need ancient books to live life. I find great joy in lots of life. My mother brings me joy. My cat brings me joy. But knowing that illness and death and our finite existence with no afterlife, does not make me fatalistic or make me want to do physical harm to others.

Ancient stories written by scientifically ignorant people pale in contrast to our current scientific knowledge. I am in awe of things like the destructive nature of black holes. I am in awe of the weirdness of science in gravity affecting time. I am in awe of the extreme size of the universe and both the constructive and destructive things in it.

WHAT I DON'T DO which deity believers do, is insist that their is a magical invisible friend at work in all this. I can find flowers pretty without making up a flower god. I can find the ocean pretty without assigning the control of it to Posiden.

If you can accept that Thor does not make lightening then you should be able to accept the absurdity of a non-material fictional super brain. If you can accept that the  sun is not a god, which was once believed, then you should be able to understand why you do not need your myth either.

The universe is amazing without a comic book explanation, and we do not need to pretend as a species that we are special, or infinite, to appreciate the here and now.

I'm not religious, don't claim to be able to explain how existence began, and have filled my life with lots of purpose.

I am glad Darwin made the contributions he did, and because of personal interactions with Richard Dawkins I am no longer a fan of his (although I respect his work).

I created this site and I also created the page that explains what atheism actually is: Am I Agnostic or Atheist?

'Nuff said.