Casy Anthony found not guilty on major charges.
Offline The media and many observers are "stunned" by this verdict. I am not.
DONT GET ME WRONG, I think she did it too. But what I have always argued, not just in this case, but long term as a society, what kind of society and jury pool we would want to live under? Do we want to live under a system that reflects the media's presumption of guilt and sensationalism? Or do we want a high standard of proof if we are going to take another citizen's freedom away we better get it right?
This jury was not saying "not guilty" on the major murder charges, because they thought she was not guilty. That is just the strict two choice word language we currently have now. What this jury was saying is that the state did not prove it's case.
I think it would be horrible to create a society where law enforcement, and lawyers and juries convicted only on emotion or nature of the charge. We should never convict someone because of the nature of the charge or because we don't like them personally.
FACTS, not emotions, not the nature of the charge. This jury was NOT saying she didn't do it. They were saying that the case was not strong enough.
This cuts to the core LONG TERM, not based on one person or one case, but cuts to the core of what kind of society we would want to live under. I have always been of the mindset that it is far better to let the guilty go free than to convict one innocent person.
This jury did did not do this because they liked her, they did it because evidence, IF you are going to take someone's freedom away, should have an extremely high standard.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline If the glove does not fit, you must acquit
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Offline If the glove does not fit, you must acquit
Exactly!
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
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Offline This jury was not saying "not guilty" on the major murder charges, because they thought she was not guilty. That is just the strict two choice word language we currently have now. What this jury was saying is that the state did not prove it's case.I think it would be horrible to create a society where law enforcement, and lawyers and juries convicted only on emotion or nature of the charge. We should never convict someone because of the nature of the charge or because we don't like them personally.
FACTS, not emotions, not the nature of the charge. This jury was NOT saying she didn't do it. They were saying that the case was not strong enough.
Agree.
I have always been of the mindset that it is far better to let the guilty go free than to convict one innocent person.
Disagree... vehemently.
As it stands right now, we do a good bit of both letting guilty parties go and convicting innocents. Sometimes the guilty get a raw deal for a relatively minor crime. In the case of the stupid fucking three strikes system, if you steal someone's pizza 3 times and have been convicted for it twice already, you get 25 to life. Since I don't have the wealth of legal knowledge as a couple of other RRSers have, I'll keep my mouth shut on most of it. The causes are likely myriad. But one cause I can confidently talk about is biased/bad judges. A judge is a delegated position that is given sweeping powers over the outcome of a case, be it marital, civil, criminal, admiralty, or otherwise... and if they become sympathetic to either the plaintiff, defense, or prosecution, and none of these potential parties detect said sympathy, the trial becomes damaged beyond repair. Judges can sometimes be bribed.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
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Offline I'm from Orlando Brian and pretty much over the hype on this one single case.
[/rant on}
Nancy Grace is an irritating bitch who is doing nothing but trying to increase ratings. FUCK HER! She plays on people's emotions to jack up ratings. She interviewd Melinda Duckett the night before her suicide in 2006 making wild accusations in regard to the fate of her missing child Trenton. Her kid Trenton has still never been found. Thanks to Nancy Grace freaking that woman out no one will ever know for sure what happened to her kid. Irriting bitch Nancy Grace plays on people's emotions to make MONEY. The more idiots that watch her the more she is going to make. She lives for tragedies like this. It gets her viewers
Since CNN continues to employ Nancy Grace I do not watch Headline News anymore. I made an exception last night to see how Nancy Grace would spin the verdict.
True to form, she created another controversy to keep viewers turned in to her tripe.
Note to Nancy:
There is no such fucking entity as the devil.
The only fuckers dancing in the streets are all you media assholes watching your ratings rise and counting your cash.
Agreed. I absolutely despise Nancy Grace and all those media hounds soaking up this tragedy to earn a buck. They are just as bad, if not worse than Casey. They are taking a terrible event and loving every minute of it. They make their living off of other people's misfortunes and misery.
She should have been charged with neglect of a child resulting in death and that's all.
OF COURSE !!!!!!
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Offline I'm from Orlando Brian and pretty much over the hype on this one single case.
[/rant on}
Nancy Grace is an irritating bitch who is doing nothing but trying to increase ratings. FUCK HER! She plays on people's emotions to jack up ratings. She interviewd Melinda Duckett the night before her suicide in 2006 making wild accusations in regard to the fate of her missing child Trenton. Her kid Trenton has still never been found. Thanks to Nancy Grace freaking that woman out no one will ever know for sure what happened to her kid. Irriting bitch Nancy Grace plays on people's emotions to make MONEY. The more idiots that watch her the more she is going to make. She lives for tragedies like this. It gets her viewers
Since CNN continues to employ Nancy Grace I do not watch Headline News anymore. I made an exception last night to see how Nancy Grace would spin the verdict.
True to form, she created another controversy to keep viewers turned in to her tripe.
Note to Nancy:
There is no such fucking entity as the devil.
The only fuckers dancing in the streets are all you media assholes watching your ratings rise and counting your cash.
Go the fuck home.
Florida typically charges someone with everything from littering to 1st degree murder in an attempt to make something stick especially in an emotional case such as this.
Casey is not a fucking angel. So fucking what. The state did not prove she murdered Caylee.
The state can't even determine the cause of death of Caylee.
End of fucking story.
These fuckers that came here need to get on their return flights and go the fuck home. Especially all the media assholes.
Casey was the adult who was taking care of Caylee, somehow Caylee died. There is nothing in her history to suggest child abuse.
She should have been charged with neglect of a child resulting in death and that's all.
That goes for every parent that has a kid die unattended in a swimming pool or from a gun left out, or that goes flying through the windshield, or goes flying out of the back of your pickup.
A child died in Daytona on Monday in a hotel pool - are they going to charge them with 1st degree murder?
[/rant off]
Brian37 wrote:In all seriousness, the idiots who bitch about this verdict DONT value the constitution. NO ONE is saying you have to like the verdict. But you do have to respect the way the system is set up LONG TERM because it insures that like Beyond said, "Mob rule" doesn't rule.
BUT, there are countries where you don't get a trial, and other countries, where even if you do, it is more of a kangaroo court because the nature of the charge has embarrassed the state.
"Justice for Caylee" is nothing but an emotional reaction that really says "I want revenge". "Justice" as our system is set up, is not about revenge, but a high standard of quality control to protect the rights OF ALL long term. The idiots who bitch about this need to read the fucking constitution to understand why verdicts like this have to be allowed to happen. LONG TERM it is much better society demand a record of accusations and peer review and hold accountable the court.
Without our court system a mob or a state can simply yank you off the street, make shit up, jail you, or murder you.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE THIS VERDICT, but you are nuts if you want to throw out the entire system because one case doesn't turn out the way you want it to.
Anyone focusing on one case ANY CASE and complaining about needs to read the constitution. There is a much bigger picture in the history of American law that EXPLAINS why we must accept this verdict. Other countries leaders and courts DONT respect rights to lawyers and juries. So if you don't like our system because of this verdict, I'd suggest you go live in a country where there are no standards and the state can do whateve5r they want to you.
The founders were extremely wise in saying that the state had to make a record of the accusation against someone. They were wise in allowing a jury, not a cop, not a judge, not a mob, to decide the outcome.
Absolutely agree. You don't have to like the verdict but fucking stop claiming there is no justice in Florida.
A fair trial was held with jurors from Tampa. They decided the state didn't have proof Caylee was murdered as the state couldn't even figure out how she died.
There was nothing that tied Casey to the death of Caylee other than she was supposedly the adult supervising her at last report.
It sucks that Caylee was murdered. But there IS a much bigger picture to the history of law and WHY it is important to accept that sometimes the guilty can go free.
Then after everything you have said you somehow know that Caylee was murdered. Correction for you:
It sucks that Caylee died.
Boy did you misread what I said. My criticism is not of the jury's decision. My criticism is of the idiots who are crying foul AFTER due process was done. These morons need to read the constitution and understand WHY we as a society have to respect the decision of the jury.
There is a media opinion (duh, Casey did it) and a legal definition(verdict) which makes Casey legally innocent.
But one juror interviewed said what I thought was correct, "How can you punish someone if you don't know how they did it?" The jurors WANTED to convict her, but rightfully agreed that the case was not based on emotion, but facts, and to that jury, the state's case was not strong enough, no matter what their personal opinion of Casey was.
"Justice" to the fuckwads slamming the jury, isn't about fact finding. These armchair quarterbacks slamming the jury, were not sitting on the jury themselves, and did not here all the information themselves, and were not faced with the jury instructions written on paper that the jury had to follow.
"Justice" from a Constitutional context, isn't, or in my mind, should not be about favoring either side, but fact finding and if you cant find strong enough facts, then as a juror you should err on protecting the constitution by letting the accused go for lack of evidence, which IS what this jury did.
But "justice" to the nutcases who are outraged by due process, isn't about fact finding, but revenge.
But come on, a skeleton in a bag with duct tape on it? Caylee was murdered, but there was NOT sufficient evidence that Casey did it. And because they didn't determine manor of death or cause of death, this verdict was the correct one.
So please don't think I am one of those morons going "Caylee was murdered don't you want someone to pay"
My response, "No, I don't want "someone" to pay, I want the facts to prove the responsible person without speculation and with sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt".
My point is "DUH" without facts doesn't constitute a case. That is what happened here. Casey IS legally innocent and we as a society, if we value our own rights, need to respect due process and this verdict.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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I agree on your point.
That is soooooo sad, a little girls life was wiped out, and nobody's to blame . All I can say is Wow, will she be convicted of other crimes in another court ? like OJ. This get the longest face palm in History !
Signature ? How ?
I actually agree with Brian on this one. Although, I have to admit I paid virtually no attention to the case so I don't really have an opinion on whether or not she is actually guilty. It is good to have a justice system that errs on the side of leniency. Better that a few guilty people walk free than one innocent person go to jail. Every time there is a high profile case like this one everyone gets all hyped up and becomes convinced of the persons guilt based on the news media.
As a person who served on a jury for a murder case that was highly publicized locally, I can attest that the trial the jurors see is completely different from the trial played out in the media. Fortunately, we don't throw people in prison based on mob rule and keeps the jurors sheltered from the rampant speculation and selective fact reporting of the media.
Another thing, I heard on the radio today that if she was found guilty she might face the death penalty. That is bullshit. Even if she is guilty she is hardly likely to be a repeat offender. It is bad enough to have a death penalty at all, but if you are going to have one it should be reserved for extreme cases where the perpetrator is not really in question.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Well, as Brain says, there is, at least, a logical distinction between not guilty and not proved guilty. There is a legal history to that.
In Scotland, the older legal system allowed for a legal verdict of either proved or not proved. However, there was a landmark case in the 1720's (wikipedia does not link to it so I will have to google the matter) which was such a piece of crap that the jury asserted the right to tender an innocent verdict.
Apparently, it was a case of nullification because the case was fully proved on the evidence but the jury felt that the law was so wrong that it had to go. Even so, the jury felt that “not proved” was a bad verdict to tender. So they asserted the right to go for “not guilty”.
=
Oh no no no,you and I are sworn enemies. I am a commie pinko who hates all rich people. I hate the Constitution. If it weren't for this right to a speedy trial, we could have just executed her on the nature of the charge and spared the tax payers money.
(note to self: Did I think this, or type it)
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
In all seriousness, the idiots who bitch about this verdict DONT value the constitution. NO ONE is saying you have to like the verdict. But you do have to respect the way the system is set up LONG TERM because it insures that like Beyond said, "Mob rule" doesn't rule.
BUT, there are countries where you don't get a trial, and other countries, where even if you do, it is more of a kangaroo court because the nature of the charge has embarrassed the state.
"Justice for Caylee" is nothing but an emotional reaction that really says "I want revenge". "Justice" as our system is set up, is not about revenge, but a high standard of quality control to protect the rights OF ALL long term. The idiots who bitch about this need to read the fucking constitution to understand why verdicts like this have to be allowed to happen. LONG TERM it is much better society demand a record of accusations and peer review and hold accountable the court.
Without our court system a mob or a state can simply yank you off the street, make shit up, jail you, or murder you.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE THIS VERDICT, but you are nuts if you want to throw out the entire system because one case doesn't turn out the way you want it to.
Anyone focusing on one case ANY CASE and complaining about needs to read the constitution. There is a much bigger picture in the history of American law that EXPLAINS why we must accept this verdict. Other countries leaders and courts DONT respect rights to lawyers and juries. So if you don't like our system because of this verdict, I'd suggest you go live in a country where there are no standards and the state can do whateve5r they want to you.
The founders were extremely wise in saying that the state had to make a record of the accusation against someone. They were wise in allowing a jury, not a cop, not a judge, not a mob, to decide the outcome.
It sucks that Caylee was murdered. But there IS a much bigger picture to the history of law and WHY it is important to accept that sometimes the guilty can go free.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I'm from Orlando Brian and pretty much over the hype on this one single case.
[/rant on}
Nancy Grace is an irritating bitch who is doing nothing but trying to increase ratings. FUCK HER! She plays on people's emotions to jack up ratings. She interviewd Melinda Duckett the night before her suicide in 2006 making wild accusations in regard to the fate of her missing child Trenton. Her kid Trenton has still never been found. Thanks to Nancy Grace freaking that woman out no one will ever know for sure what happened to her kid. Irriting bitch Nancy Grace plays on people's emotions to make MONEY. The more idiots that watch her the more she is going to make. She lives for tragedies like this. It gets her viewers
Since CNN continues to employ Nancy Grace I do not watch Headline News anymore. I made an exception last night to see how Nancy Grace would spin the verdict.
True to form, she created another controversy to keep viewers turned in to her tripe.
Note to Nancy:
There is no such fucking entity as the devil.
The only fuckers dancing in the streets are all you media assholes watching your ratings rise and counting your cash.
Go the fuck home.
Florida typically charges someone with everything from littering to 1st degree murder in an attempt to make something stick especially in an emotional case such as this.
Casey is not a fucking angel. So fucking what. The state did not prove she murdered Caylee.
The state can't even determine the cause of death of Caylee.
End of fucking story.
These fuckers that came here need to get on their return flights and go the fuck home. Especially all the media assholes.
Casey was the adult who was taking care of Caylee, somehow Caylee died. There is nothing in her history to suggest child abuse.
She should have been charged with neglect of a child resulting in death and that's all.
That goes for every parent that has a kid die unattended in a swimming pool or from a gun left out, or that goes flying through the windshield, or goes flying out of the back of your pickup.
A child died in Daytona on Monday in a hotel pool - are they going to charge them with 1st degree murder?
[/rant off]
Absolutely agree. You don't have to like the verdict but fucking stop claiming there is no justice in Florida.
A fair trial was held with jurors from Tampa. They decided the state didn't have proof Caylee was murdered as the state couldn't even figure out how she died.
There was nothing that tied Casey to the death of Caylee other than she was supposedly the adult supervising her at last report.
Then after everything you have said you somehow know that Caylee was murdered. Correction for you:
It sucks that Caylee died.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.