Machele Bachmann's husband.
Offline It goes without saying that being gay is part of a normal occurring range of human sexuality.
But what I hate is that long term our society has set these people up to lie by condemning their sexuality. I do not blame him as much as I blame the environment he grew up in. But in listening to him and his watching his behavior I have to ask myself "who is he kidding"?
Elton John is gay. Richard Simmons is gay. How anyone after seeing George Michael in Wham, calling him straight during his solo career is absurd. And Ted Haggart(sp) is lying to himself.
I hate that we still live in an age where people feel compelled to deny what they are.
I am so fucking sick of religion selling the bullshit that a human cannot be what they are and have to hide it because of a given society's social norms.
Religion is bullshit. What matters to me are how a person acts, not what they claim to be, religious or political or their sexuality. Bachmann's husband is a victim himself. He is a victim of religion and has to live a lie because of what religion sold him.
I feel sorry for him because he is living a lie and because of the bullshit he bought, he cannot be himself and is torturing himself.
To me Michele's husband acting if he is not gay is like a kid muffling words through their puffy mouth cheeks denying to mom that they ate the cookie when mom told them to wait until after dinner.
I cant attest to being gay, I am not. But I do know what it is like to have lived for far too long as an atheist while remaining silent. And for a long time on many occasions I held my tongue when I knew what was going on around me was bullshit.
I cannot tell closet gays, or closet atheists to out themselves. But I cannot sit by while others lie and while others buy lies just to fit in.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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I need to jump in here because I spent some time working with Marcus and Michele Bachmann when I was heavily involved in political fundraising. I got to know both of them fairly well. While I will concede that they are christian nuts, of the kind that is quite common in rural MN and WI, I think your accusations against Marcus are ignorant and unfair. From what I saw, they had great relationship and a loving marriage. I would be surprised if Marcus turned out to be gay. Just because your not Clint Eastwood doesn't mean you are gay. And just because you talk like Elton John doesn't mean you are gay either. They are simply good indications.
It has been over a decade since I have talked to either one, so maybe things have changed, but I don't see any reason speculate about what we don't know about and what quite frankly, isn't any of our business.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Not to sound ignorant here. But who are they ? I have never heard of eiither one of them.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Michele is a congresswoman running for prez in the republican primary. No real reason to have heard of her unless you are paying close attention to the primary race. Before being in congress she was in the Minnesota state senate. Her election chances are doubtful.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I dunno Beyond.... Marcus Bachman makes Jim McGreevey look like a tough guy.... if he's NOT seriously conflicted about his sexuality, I would be shocked.....
There are two kinds of men.... those who watch Baywatch and rub one out to Pam Anderson.... and those who do the same to David Hasselhoff.... I suspect Marcus Bachman to be the latter.
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
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Well, I had to find clips of him on youtube to see what his deal is. He certainly does seem like a fan of the last president Buchanan. However, given his position, I really doubt that he would out himself regardless.
So unless a gentleman companion or several turn up, I really don't see that we can consider this as more than an amusing diversion for John Stewart.
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Him being gay or not is completely irrelevant.
His "pray-out-the-gay" stupidity, however, is simply vile.
I was more disgusted than amused by the bits on Stewart's show. People like Bachman aren't funny.
I am not saying Marcus is a bad guy. I AM SAYING HE IS IN DENIAL. And I am sure he loves his wife. But he is gay and in denial.
Just because you are Clint Eastwood doesn't mean you are straight. I've met gay guys that have no hint of limp wrist. I met a Air Force officer back when I was in college who gave a speech about being kicked out for being gay. If he never said he was I wouldn't have guessed it. And that is the only gay I have met whom I wouldn't have guessed was gay.
But ELTON JOHN HAS ADMITTED HE IS GAY and considering his gettup throughout his career he might have denied or avoided the issue, but the people in the know KNEW IT.
And back when I was a kid people openly denied Liberachie being gay. COME ON!
Marcus is gay. That is not to say he should be ashamed and like I said he is a victim himself. I am sure he loves his wife and family but he is in complete denial. Being gay does not mean you cant fall for the bullshit that you are not.
I don't care about his politics or whom he is married to. I am merely saying he is in denial. I feel sorry for him because he cannot be himself.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Oh? Are you the ultimate arbiter of who is and who isn't gay? Do you have any evidence that he is gay other than he lives up to your stereotype of what a gay person acts like? Sounds awfully conceited and bigoted to me to imagine that you can determine a persons sexual preferences based on the way they speak, dress, walk or gesture.
I'm all for using stereotypes to make working assumptions, but it seems to me that when a person actively refutes your assumption that you should change it unless you have evidence that the person is lying. And you have no evidence outside your image of what a "gay person" looks and acts like.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I hope he isn't gay - cause if I was gay, I'd be embarrassed to be in the same 'orientation' as him. Kind of like how I'm embarrassed that R. Kelly is "straight".
Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical
Beyond, get off this "stereotype" guff.
I never said nor will ever say being gay is a bad thing. All I said is that some things are obvious. Like when a blatant man tries to pass himself off as a woman. Some things are obvious. If a man dresses up as a woman, that is not a bad thing by itself, but if you are wearing a wig and have 5 o'clock shadow and an adam's apple bigger than a basket ball, you are not fooling anyone.
I would simply tell him he is living a lie no and no matter how much he loves his family, that will not make him straight. He is a product of a bigoted society and that is the only reason he puts on this facade.
Now strictly from a semantic sense, unless he outs himself, you are right, we don't know for sure. But I would hedge my bets that he is gay and simply is living a lie because of the bigoted bullshit society sold him.
I would bet if we put him on a lie detector and he said "I am not gay" the needle would make the rector scale during a 9.0 earthquake look like a flat liner EKG. He would make the machine explode.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
And how is that different from the wackos who tell gay people "You are not gay, you only think you are"? You are basically saying the same thing from the other side of the fence. "You actually are gay, you are just lying to yourself"
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
And just because you aren't Clint Eastwood does not make you gay either.
You mentioned the guy from the airforce whom you never would have known. I can meet that by telling you that I have met George Takei. Him and me in an elevator with no reason for him to ham it up and he presented as just a regular reserved older Japanese man.
Against that, is it just possible that there are men who might set off your gaydar who actually happen to be straight? I can't think that that would not work both ways.
Now I will grant you that if he became first gentleman, he seems like the kind of guy who would want the floral arrangements at an ambassadorial dinner to be just right. Against that, I get a vision that a possible first gentleman Palin would be more concerned as to how many people will be showing so that he knows how many caribou he needs to personally shoot.
Still, we do not have any information about his sexuality. And really, so what if he is. Given his business, I really don't see him joining the Log Cabin wing of the party. If he even tried to show for an event which they were hosting, he would be hissed off stage in seconds.
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I wonder what would happen if he tried to donate blood.
After reading about Bachmann on the Internet and watching some of her speeches on youtube, there is no way that I would cast my vote for that evangelical, christian, bitch and I hope her husband is gay.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Well, yeah. That is a problem. There is also the problem of getting your history right before opening your mouth. And why can't she hire people who are competent researchers? Your staff should have all that info right at your fingertips.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
I know what you "mean", but isn't that more of a stereotype than anything else? Wouldn't that be like saying that a guy who looks or talks "nerdy" probably likes Star Trek?
Because in pure serious terms, what actual correlation is there between a lisp, or "effiminate gestures" and sexual attraction?
Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical
And??
Is there some point you're trying to make?
Is it that he should 'embrace' his homosexuality (if he is in fact wired that way), instead of curb it and stay heterosexual?
What is the 'problem' if he's not 'embracing' his natural 'inclination' to be gay, or bi?
What is it to you?
What's the harm to anyone?
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I am going to tell you even at the atheist convention in DC I went to, most of the the people there did not look like jocks or cheerleaders, Brad Pit or Angelina Jolie. So in making that observation am I saying all atheists are ugly?
I would also say that most atheists on average seem to more scientifically minded and know religion on average better than most believers. Is that a stereotype or an observation? In making that observation that does not mean I ignore that there are laymen atheists who don't educate themselves anymore than weekend worshipers and simply claim the label to "be different" or as a rejection of social norms.
I am talking about ONE INDIVIDUAL, not all gays and not all evangelicals, JUST HIM.
It would not shock me in the least if he outs himself or gets outed. I could be wrong, but IF IF IF IF IF I am going to place bets, I would bet that Bachmann's husband is gay. Unless you want to pretend that religion has never victimized minorities into remaining silent or shamed them into pretending that they are something they are not.
How many preachers who become atheists admit that they were in the pulpit lying knowing that they didn't believe?
This isn't about an entire group of people, this is about ONE MAN and based on this one man, it seems obvious, even though life is a range. I am simply playing the odds if I were to place a bet.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/07/the_kind_of_people_who_elect_m.php#comments
My middle son was being bullied about being gay in High School. Our conversation went like this:
"Are you gay?"
"NO!!!!!"
"Okay, I didn't think so, but I wanted to be sure. It would be fine with me if you were. No big deal, it wouldn't bother me at all. You know, they wouldn't say it if you didn't get so upset."
"But I'm not!"
"I know that, you know that, people who are your friends know that. Why care what a bunch of lame asses think or say. They are just stupid."
"oh"
And he didn't have as much trouble once he stopped responding to the bullying. But how much worse to be teased and bullied by someone you have a crush on. Awful. When I was that age, I can imagine just how devastated I would feel. Now, I would just send the bullier over to a friend's house - she is openly butch and ex-military. I wouldn't have to lift a finger.
Seriously, this bullying needs to stop. I would bet 9 times out of 10, the child being bullied is not gay. And there is no way the child can stop the abuse when it is sanctioned by parents and school authorities. And no, it isn't protected free speech to abuse, libel, and slander someone else.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
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Ah cj, that is a good take on the matter. But let me bump it up a notch.
I have been saying for many years that the world is a much simpler place if you come to an understanding that everyone has an inner asshole which is trying to get out. Bad people are those who are not keeping check on their inner asshole.
That philosophy really works best only if you include yourself as part of the world. Think about it, there are always going to be times where it is just not good to be nice to someone. You get short changed at the store. You are trying to buy a cell phone and the guy keeps trying to push you towards models that cost far more than what you want.
The list is probably endless and different for each of us. Even so, there will come times when, while still keeping it on a tight leash, letting it out for a bit of sunlight is the way to see that what needs to happen happens.
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So now I'm confused. Which side are you arguing? That we should be mean to bullies or that we ourselves be bullies when warranted?
Yeah, we can all be assholes - intentionally or not. Myself included. I'm saying bullies are stupid lame asses and I don't waste my time on stupid lame asses. Even if they do deserve to be booted into next week.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
That's pretty much what the problem is there. And from the way they have this organised, and given how "succesful" they've been, I'm wondering if there's a reward for the student who talks yet another gay kid into killing themselves.
Maybe they get a free bible ? Or a signed photograph of a grinning Michele Bachman.
There's no doubt that there is tremendous pressure felt by gays, and exponentially more if they happen to be born into a religious family, and faced by a largely religious community that abhors them.
I can't even begin to imagine what kind of feelings a person must have, to contemplate killing themselves for their sexual inclinations...
It's utterly disgusting that people stick their noses into where they don't belong. And other peoples' kinks, are where they don't belong.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
This is precisely my point.
While true, unless we got him to admit it, we do not know for sure. But considering who he is married to and the community that supports the rejection of homosexuality, it would not surprise me in the least that he is merely in denial.
And even if he was straight, his pseudo therapy crap is nothing more than an indoctrination camp.
What he is doing to gays is vile and his religion makes victims of all of society.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I understand your point.
But, from a purely philosophically standpoint, what if an individual felt they were not 'completely' gay, but somewhere between gay and bisexual, and they wanted to (for whatever reason) discipline themselves to be completely heterosexual.
What could possibly lead someone else to the conclusion that they shouldn't attempt to do that?
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
We are not talking about a secular person abstaining for pragmatic reasons. We are talking about a person who is indoctrinated into a religion that condemns homosexuality, and would so bisexuality.
There are lots of good reasons and practical reasons to keep it in your pants regardless of sexuality. Disease and unwanted pregnancy and cost of raising a child.
Heterosexuals and bisexuals can over do it with sex just like a college frat guy can over do it with a keg.
You don't need a god nor do you need to condemn gays or bi's to state the obvious that any sexual behavior has risk.
And considering how many extra marital affairs happen all the time, marriage wont prevent your partner from bringing something home to you.
If he wants to keep it in his pants, fine. But using religion as a crutch is as stupid as the 12 step program alcoholics use as a crutch to not drink.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I moved away from your fixation on Bachman, and into a overall philosophical question. Did you miss that cue?
Who even mentioned anything about promiscuity??
FFS, are you ADHD or something?...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Here we have Michelle being asked about her husband's clinic.
Watch her play the victim card, and handily dodge the fact that Marcus' clinic (never mind that what he does there has been completely discredited) is receiving government money. I thought she disapproved of government money being channeled into the private sector.
Not when the money's coming her way, it seems.
But yeah, don't ask her about that. Ask her about becoming president !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YesB-DCLCNk&feature=player_embedded
You are the one with ADD, not me.
You are trying to make it about sexuality otherwise you wouldn't be talking about homosexuals or bisexuals.
HE has the clinic because his religion tells him "gays" can be cured. He sees that as promiscuity by itself because he is confusing the two as being the same because of his religion.
I am telling YOU that sexuality and religion should not be the issue.
Risky behavior IS the real issue. THAT IS MY POINT.
You seem to, like him, be confusing the map with the territory.
Sexual orientation is not the same as their observable actions. That is the same as confusing running with legs. You might prefer biking to running, but that doesn't prevent you from being able to run. Nor does it make running the legs themselves.
One can be gay and celibate or straight and celibate. A bi person is just as capable of using or not using a condom as a straight person.
I am stating the reality and you are still stuck on their labels.
SKIP THE DAMNED LABELS
His god, or any god is not a good reason reject a sexual orientation nor does one's sexual orientation make one moral or immoral. It neither keeps you celibate or prevents you from being celibate.
HE DOESN'T NEED A GOD OR A CRUTCH nor should he be placing blame on others to boost his own personal myth. He is selling CRAP and I don't give a rat's ass how well intended anyone thinks his efforts are.
His Christianity has no barring on reality other than that he is deluded in thinking his god can magically fix people. He is fucking up people's lives by selling them the lie that they are broken, merely because of what they are attracted to.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Are you on glue?
From your OP :
"It goes without saying that being gay is part of a normal occurring range of human sexuality.
But what I hate is that long term our society has set these people up to lie by condemning their sexuality. I do not blame him as much as I blame the environment he grew up in. But in listening to him and his watching his behavior I have to ask myself "who is he kidding"?
Elton John is gay. Richard Simmons is gay. How anyone after seeing George Michael in Wham, calling him straight during his solo career is absurd. And Ted Haggart(sp) is lying to himself."
Dude, stop posting when you're drunk. It makes you look like your mental...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
No no no no no, you are not going to get away with this. You are NOT throwing my words back at me like you would to think.
Saying that someone is gay is not making their gayness an issue.
Your reaction to my posts reflect projection as if you were saying " I want Brian to hate blue cars because I don't like the color blue myself", merely because I observe that a car is blue and said "that car is blue".
YOU are the one projecting yourself on me. I don't make people's sexuality an issue. You however seem to.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I think we can all agree here that whether he's gay or not doesn't matter, it's the fact that he's a Christian fundamentalist that matters, so we can safely avoid voting for him.
Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical
Well, I don't plan on voting for him. However if mrs. Not the straightest arrow in the quiver wins the nomination (which I highly doubt), then the dems are going to have to field a really serious candidate. Really, if it comes down to Bachmann or Jesse Jackson, then the question is who is going to fuck the country up worst. On the other hand, if the choice was Bachmann or Liberman, I would have little choice but to step over the line.
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OK, that is a total strawman. Put another way, it is an argument based on an irrelevant parody of what you are responding to.
You started this thread specifically to out a dude who triggers your personal gaydar. Nothing else really applies.
Really though, sure, there are people that perhaps all of think to be gay. That doesn't really go anywhere though.
As far as I am aware, Richard Simmons has never commented publicly on the matter. I think we all know but if he wants to keep his private life private, then I really don't care. Ditto Liberace, Carey Grant and Raymond Burr. Yes, Perry Mason/Ironside was “one of those people”.
Really, you motivation for playing the gay card really is not based on your concern for his happiness. Why don't you just say what you are really doing and we can move on from there.
Actually, that really happens. It is fairly rare, hence part of the reason why there are few statistics on the matter. However, there are people who are bisexual buy only a little bit. Sometimes, they will ask for therapy on the matter.
A competent therapist will not try to straighten the guy out. Unless you mean the sense of straightening someone out on what clearly confuses them. At the end of the process, it really is not important if the person ever “crosses the line” or not. If the person never has a gay encounter for the rest of their life, well, they have not been cured. They might have come to terms with who they are though.
That is what the real therapy is. “Christian therapy” is a very different thing.
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