HUMANS AND RELIGION

Skepticus
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HUMANS AND RELIGION

I'm wondering why humans cling to religion? At the moment I'm thinking that religion caters to our need for social interaction. Add to this the emotional commitment required for conversion, it seems to be an irresistible proposition.

Even if we are advancing technologically and scientifically, why is it that we have scientists and people from all walks off life who are religious?

Here in South-Africa, churches are popping up all over the place, what's the situation in the your country?

Don't get me wrong....I'm not questioning my atheist point of view, just exploring the social impact of religion.

Any thoughts/opinions welcome!!


ex-minister
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Religion

A series of answers...

 

  • Christopher Hitchens says "As long as people are afraid of death, the dark and each other there will be religion"
  • It is the way you are brought up that keeps it going. Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will return. That is a bible quote, proverbs or ecclesiastes - too lazy to look it up. It certainly is true in my family. My grandmother became an SDA and pretty much everyone got in line or got drunk. Why don't Christians pop up ex nihilo in countries where they are in a minority? Why did I just suddenly become Jainist without every having heard of it? This certainly makes you wonder about the existence of a god. Why don't we just believe immediately and in detail? Everyone is born an atheist. We have to be taught about the "existence" of Jesus, Moses and Paul. 
  • This is why education is very important. Scientist are overwhelming atheist compared to non-scientist.
  • Religion is a great way to control the crowds. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
  • We are social creatures. My grandparents on my father's side were Lutheran's barely. The times I went with them you could see it was for social reasons.
  • Religion is the opium of the masses - Karl Marx. Not in that in dulls their response to life, but it associates real suffering in life to religious suffering. It muddies the water. I now would associate any pain in life to a cosmic struggle of good & evil, where Jesus is battling for me and Satan is trying to drag me to hell. My ego takes on grandiosity. When all I really need to do is just accept this simple pain as it is. 
  • More recently I think it forms political alliances. Maybe it has been that way in the past but it seems much stronger today to me.

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


Brian37
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FMStereo wrote:I'm wondering

FMStereo wrote:

I'm wondering why humans cling to religion? At the moment I'm thinking that religion caters to our need for social interaction. Add to this the emotional commitment required for conversion, it seems to be an irresistible proposition.

Even if we are advancing technologically and scientifically, why is it that we have scientists and people from all walks off life who are religious?

Here in South-Africa, churches are popping up all over the place, what's the situation in the your country?

Don't get me wrong....I'm not questioning my atheist point of view, just exploring the social impact of religion.

Any thoughts/opinions welcome!!

It really isn't a mystery. Humans didn't evolve with scientific knowledge of the world around them, much less the psychological knowledge of why they fill in gaps. Any life that has consciousness to a degree, seeks patterns, it doesn't matter if a gap is filled with a superstition, it is viewed, even if falsely as an answer. It is Dawkin's moth mistaking the light bulb for the moonlight.

My cat associates my clock alarm in the morning with eating because he is used to being fed after I wake up. Now while I cant read his mind, I am quite sure when I don't do it right away, especially after time change for daylight savings, he in his mind makes up some reason it isn't happening,  and tries the same pattern of behavior to make it happen until he gets fed.

Humans cling to a variety of behaviors, including religion, much like a sugar pill can work. It isn't that the ritual has a pragmatic or real benefit, but it can bring a false comfort that has a real impact.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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We are all born with a

We are all born with a natural desire to be socailly accepted, to be accepted as a moral person. The trick religion plays on people is to say 'be religious and others will think of you as moral, you will think of yourself as a good.' Belief in God and being religious then becomes the gold standard for morality not actual results of an action.

One need not examine the actual conseqences of an actions in the real world, because "God know your heart". So theists can just invent a 'God of convenience' that will love them uncondionally and be OK with the morality of whatever they choose. So for example, Joe Paterno can allow child abuse to go unreported. When he gets caught, he can just say "pray for the victims". So other theists are supposed to think of him still as a good person and he can still think of himself this way.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Vastet
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It's rather complicated.

It's rather complicated. Fear and imagination as well as a grounding in reality (critical thinking skills) have a lot to do with how susceptible a person is to believing in a "higher power" or some such. Which isn't necessarily a problem. If a being feels the need to believe in something to go forward that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Religion is an organisation of power. It manipulates the things that make one susceptible to force belief en masse at a time of critical vulnerability to suggestion. It uses social, political, and economic stresses to enforce rigid adherence to one specific ideology above any other, or even the concept of another.
But in doing so it also provides a community focal point, something people cling to in order to strengthen the bonds of a community. This has been accomplished outside of religion, but rarely. Generally in long term projects that tie large swaths of the community together. The last big one was the drive to the moon.

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Unfortunately these bonds

Unfortunately these bonds work against us when used to form a rigid adherence to one ideology, such as every religion proposes. It does succeed in binding the followers together, but it exiles any who refuse to accept the ideology in any way, and creates unnecessary conflict when opposition is apparent. The results span from the breakup of churches to all out war.
So effectively, people believe because they can, and because it brings them comfort. And they join together because they are wired to, as social animals. Sharing thoughts and ideas. Strengthening the community. It's basically a symptom of the human predisposition towards forming social groups, coupled with the fear of the unknown and a wild imagination.

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Vastet wrote:Unfortunately

Vastet wrote:
Unfortunately these bonds work against us when used to form a rigid adherence to one ideology, such as every religion proposes. It does succeed in binding the followers together, but it exiles any who refuse to accept the ideology in any way, and creates unnecessary conflict when opposition is apparent. The results span from the breakup of churches to all out war. So effectively, people believe because they can, and because it brings them comfort. And they join together because they are wired to, as social animals. Sharing thoughts and ideas. Strengthening the community. It's basically a symptom of the human predisposition towards forming social groups, coupled with the fear of the unknown and a wild imagination.

This is true of SOME religions.

It is not true of ALL religions.

Now, if you want to replace "religion" with "Christianity", have at it.  But I assure you that "every religion" is false.

Likewise, the number of people with far greater "critical thinking skills" than you, or even me, who've advanced major scientific breakthroughs give lie to the notion that "theists lack critical thinking skills."

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


ex-minister
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What religion has had

What religion has not had splits?

Even critical thinkers have blind spots.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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ex-minister wrote:What

ex-minister wrote:

What religion has not had splits?

 

Even critical thinkers have blind spots.

I disagree, but only because the logical implication of the earlier comment is that all philosophy is crap.  And I don't mean useful crap, like manure for fertilizer, I mean completely useless crap.  And the implication of "all philosophy is crap" is that Atheism is equally crap.

To the extent that Atheists have no dog at all in the "religion" issue, atheism isn't a philosophy.  I like vanilla ice cream, but I have no opinion (or thoughts, or beliefs or) ... about foods I've never heard of.  I eat what I like, and sometimes I eat what people feed me, even if I never ate it before.

But when Atheists develop social structures in which the primary objective is an "anti-religious philosophy", Atheism itself becomes a "religion", since religions are themselves nothing more than a philosophy about the nature of G-d.  Yours just happens to be that god / gods / sort-of-gods are all, well, crap.

Congratulations -- you left one religion and joined another.  But, as others have pointed out, we do it because we're social creatures and being a part of a social group makes us feel good.  My only question is this -- does your new religion make the world a better place?  But I have to ask that question on account of the whole "I'm a Jew" thing and that's just what Jews do.  You know, Universal Brotherhood, the Messianic Era, Swords into Plowshares, Ending Hunger.  From a "critical thinking" standpoint, improving the world seems -- in terms of insuring the success of my offspring -- like a Really Good Idea.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Vastet
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Quote:This is true of SOME

Quote:
This is true of SOME religions.It is not true of ALL religions.

Like always, you are wrong.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:Quote:This is

Vastet wrote:
Quote:
This is true of SOME religions.It is not true of ALL religions.
Like always, you are wrong.

Wow.

There really are religions that don't care if you belong or not, have no intention of taking over the world, and don't do anything else you seem to think all religions do.

Most Atheists aren't as stupid as you.  Might I suggest you become a Southern Baptist?  It would definitely improve the intelligence level of the average Atheist.  Not sure what it would do for Southern Baptists, but they can't do much worse than they already are.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again -- there is more to religion that whatever form of Christianity keeps knocking on your door while you're playing video games.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Vastet
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You are as consistent in

You are as consistent in your errors as you are in your capacity to amuse me.

Since you have provided no examples or evidence your comments are laughable. Name a religion that encourages diverse beliefs within its ideological structure and which remains identifiable as the religion it was at its origin. Or concede.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Thanks, guys.

Thanks for all the great posts. Just read very interesting article from LA Times on topic "God didn't make man; man made gods", link post by JesusNEVERexisted.

Well worth a look.


Skepticus
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Special thanks!

Thanks, cpt! Fantastic links! Appreciated.