What should be done with church revenues?
Offline Folks,
The good ol' US of A won't become Sweden anytime soon. The majority who are theists will continue to contribute their tithe to their favorite tax exempt organizations. And no doubt, the churches accrue vast amounts of wealth by other means to. And let's not forget the wealthy mega churches to whom the fundies love to give vast quantities of money. Correct me if I'm wrong but the collective church revenues amount to several billion dollars. That money belongs to the people. Would I be too much of a communist if I endorse expropriating church wealth towards funding universal healthcare, creating jobs, improving infrastructure, R&D, etc.....? If that money is going into a giant holy grail, then why not tip it over and redistribute it instead of letting it wind up in the pockets of greedy preachers? Our economy is in the craphole. Why the fuck does skydaddy need all that cash? I say let's bleed the churches dry!!!!!
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not far enough, in my book. the cash is at bottom worthless anyway. as part of a proletarian revolution, all church assets, liquid and frozen, including property, would be seized, to be administered by people's revolutionary committees. that includes the catholic church, and let the vatican retaliate as it will, with its handful of swiss guards and their pole-axes.
on top of that, there would be no respect for the jurisdiction of canon law, and all those allegations against priests would be thoroughly investigated, and those with sufficient evidence against them would be handled by people's tribunals, with revolutionary justice--i.e., swift, direct, and final. and just let that fucking old fascist ratzinger set one foot on american soil. w's shameful--indeed, traitorous--grant of immunity won't have the value of cheap 2-ply then.
god, how i'd love to see a revolution in italy--a good solid communist or even social-democratic party that would get rid of that whole ridiculous farce of "vatican city," the last feudal remnant of the papal states, once and for all. st. peter's and all its treasures belong to the italian people. then the US could grow a backbone and extradite that decrepit nazi. we wouldn't be the only country looking to do it either, i'll wager.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
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Yes, you would be too much of a communist. Just because you don't like how people decide to waste their money, is not sufficient reason to justify taking it from them. The money does not belong to "the people", the people that money belonged to decided to give it to the church.
That is pretty much what I spend my money on.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Can you really equate the church tithe with spending cash on porn, football or beer? Indeed, I would be absolutely content as the next guy if the tithe were spent on all that. And they are effective means to create and sustain jobs by stimulating economic growth in the service industries. Pay money for pleasure to satisfy your carnal urges.
But spending money for the church is the same? The act gives them pleasure? It makes them happy? I shouldn't question another person's happiness? Absolutely!!! I don't dispute any of this. Peope can do whatever they want with their money. Clearly the vast majority of the Occupy Wallstreet crowd are religious. And many of them wasted their cash by giving it to the church. Similarly, they gave their hard earned money to the banks that they so despise. What right do they have getting mad at bankers if they give the churches a pass. IMO the padre who heads a megachurch is a far greater criminal than a bank CEO. If they stay silent about how churches horde wealth, shouldn't they judge the greedy corporations by the same standards?
They should. And it is absurd to get all angry at corporations while continuing to voluntarily give them your money. Now if you are mad at a particular corporation for taking government money, that is different. But the anger of Occupy Wallstreet seems directed at anyone who makes money. If you don't like how a church wastes money, don't give them any. If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there. If you can convince enough of your fellow citizens to do the same, both will disappear.
Now the exception is when either organization gets assistance from the government. Like churches not paying property taxes, allowing them to accumulate larger tracts of land and build more valuable churches than their finances could otherwise sustain. Or corporations getting stimulus funding/bailouts/special tax treatment. Don't be made about the money voluntarily being given, be mad about the money taken by government force to hand to them.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
You don't get that taxation is theft, the government shakes you down just like a mafia just for being their territory. Next to religion taxation is the other great irrationality of society. Since politicians don't earn the money, the tax revenue is just a slush fund to use as they please. So if religious groups are in bed with the politicians, guess what they manipulate the tax code in their favor. If we don't buy into the concept of taxation in the first place, guess what no corrupt political system and churches have to pay for the services they receive.
How do you justify the concept of taxation to begin with? Why can't all services be paid for with user fees equal to the cost of providing them? Doesn't the system of taxation just encourage corruption, laziness, individual irresponsibility?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Donate church revenues towards our new server and we members get to keep all the extra revenue!