Rob, I dont think it is as simple as that. I think people can and do react to different input differently. This argument could be made for some people, but would not always work on everyone all the time.

Thats why we should value the two pronged approach. You have a valid tactic and I do agree "what would it take to consider" is a good question.

But you also need people like me that through the quick and harsh cold water on their face like "DNA DOESN'T LIE BEEEEEAAAATCH" "Thoughts require a material process".

Combo buddy, combo. Like tag team wrestling. If one thing doesn't get em, something else may. Adroit is recent example of something working and getting to him. Now we could ask him what arguments worked on him, but I would say if he looks back at it, even the ones that were not linchpins he can look at now and say "that makes sense too".

I've seen both the slow deconstruction work, and the fast verbal cold water work.

I remember a guy on Infidel Guy who started out with the name "Jesus" in his name. But it only took him a year when he came back with the name "Savage" and told all of us we were right.

Everyone we argue with will respond to different things because humans are individuals.

You hit them with BOTH tactics. Come at their arguments from all sides. We wont save all religious people from their delusions, but we can and often do get to some. And at a minimum it maintains a societal attitude of protecting dissent which has to be protected if atheists want to keep making the arguments they make, either way.

I'd love to go back and thank the guy that started me on my road who said simply "What if Jesus was just a man". It was a long road and it took me almost a decade. Some snap out of it quickly, some take longer, and some don't snap out of it at all. But to never try is certain failure.

Even comedian Ricky Gevaris(sp) said his deconversion was sudden. As he described it his brother made a snarky comment in front of him about the bible with his mother standing there who suddnly shushed him, and right then he thought it was all BS. If it isn't then why was his mom trying to silence his brother's comments?

More often than not when I hear about de conversions they are slow and tedious and it was for me. But my atheism didn't hing on one thing but multiple factors when you add it all up. I only had one question that stared the ball rolling. But that snowball grew and my belief when down the hill with it.

We never see the "a ha" moment. But we can and do often plant those seeds of doubt that they take away with them.

My deconversion took about 5 years and started off with me arguing about if you can lose salvation or not with a person from a different denomination than mine.  After realizing that the bible had verses that seemed to support both opinions I decided to think for myself.  That's what started the ball rolling for me.

I think the last thing that left me finally an atheist was reading Carl Sagan's book Billions and Billions and pondering over Carl's demise.

So I know the first and last thoughts in my 5 year deconversion process.

I only argued about religion once during that time, and that atheist didn't help at all.  He just came off as an arrogant, super pissed off prick who didn't even make any good points.  He more acted like a kid chunking crap at a church than anything else.

He had been raised in some really whacked out Christian cult that probably scarred the dude for life.  He even wrote and published a book about it.

Sagan was another awesome person. I admit he didn't come on my radar until recently. Bob in the past year pointed out his writings and the space photo inspired by his goading of the earth viewed through the rings of Saturn.

Like Shakespeare's Macbeth act 5 scene 5 Sagan looks at the universe, accepts it's finite nature and our insignificant  and  blip role in all this and still says "WOW".

The theist cannot do this. They cannot go to the movie, or the sporting event or the amusement park without creating a fictional infinite ticket that lasts forever.

Sagan went to the movie, went to the sporting event, and went to the amusement park and accepted the finite ride and still said "WOW"

I haven't thought of it in just this way.  Hmmmm.....

                                                I think Kwanza and Scientology were created in the twentieth century, but I get your point.

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