A Few "Simple" Questions Regarding Abiogenesis/Darwinian Evolution
Offline This is for everyone who thinks all biological organisms can be explained by naturalistic mechanisms. When I use the word "evolution" in this thread, I am referring to darwinian evolution (common ancestry via random mutations and natural selection).
1. Do you consider evolution to be proven scientifically?
2. How did life with specifications for hundreds of proteins originate from inorganic matter just by chemistry without intelligent design?
3. How did the DNA code originate?
4. How could copying errors (mutations) create 3 billion letters of DNA instructions to change a microbe into a microbiologist?
5. Why is natural selection taught as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life?
6. How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate?
7. Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed?
8. How did multi-cellular life originate?
9. How did sex originate?
10. Why are the (expected) millions of transitional fossils missing?
11. How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years?
12. How did blind chemistry create mind/intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality?
13. Why do you reject the idea of an Intelligent Designer?
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
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Offline Aw man. I now you hate when this happens. WARNING: ANOTHER IDIOTIC ATHEIST TRYING TO ACCUSE RELIGON OF CAUSING ALL THE DEATH AND SUFFERING IS ABOUT TO BE STEAMROLLED WITH FACT. THESE IMAGES MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
You are an ignorant fool.
Atheists don't kill in the name of "a god". They kill because they are greedy and corrupted, just like the theists.
The difference is that the crusades killed in the "name of their god". Remember all those "religious wars"? Do you recall any "Atheist wars"? Huh, nope.
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Offline jackspell wrote:Aw man. I now you hate when this happens. WARNING: ANOTHER IDIOTIC ATHEIST TRYING TO ACCUSE RELIGON OF CAUSING ALL THE DEATH AND SUFFERING IS ABOUT TO BE STEAMROLLED WITH FACT. THESE IMAGES MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
You are an ignorant fool.
Atheists don't kill in the name of "a god". They kill because they are greedy and corrupted, just like the theists.
The difference is that the crusades killed in the "name of their god". Remember all those "religious wars"? Do you recall any "Atheist wars"? Huh, nope.
Typical tactic of the theist. When they cannot make a case for their invisible friend they falsely shout "COOTIES, YOU HAVE COOTIES"
Listen up Jack, ALL HUMANS are part of the same evolution, thus we are ALL capable of the full range of human actions, both good and bad. If an atheist does something bad, other atheists don't say "that was not a true atheist", rational people simply say "that was an asshole" and treat the individual as an individual.
How we wish others would behave does not change what THAT person thinks in their head.
Jack, this reaction is merely our evolutionary ignorance as a species in the form of "in group vs out group" and fear of outsiders.
I do not fear believers, I do fear the downside of our evolution in lack of questioning. It is only when we question and test and verify that humanity progresses forward. It is why we no longer believe the sun to be a god. It is why blacks are no longer slaves. It is why women can vote.
Lack of questioning is what keeps Islam in it's theocracies in the Middle East. It is why women have little to no power. Religion constantly has to be drug by reason into the future, and only survives by being watered down. It is hostile to scientific inquiry.
Jack, there is no god. Evolution was going on long before your magic baby/zombie god claim. It would still have happened if your superstition had never been invented. It would have still happened if neither of us had been born. There is no deity ever claimed in human history needed to explain the good or bad that have ALWAYS happened in our evolution.
Jack, we will not barbecue your kittens or rape your women. But it IS 2012 and that book of convoluted tripe was written in an age of scientific ignorance. We cannot stop you from believing that junk, and you can claim it to be true until you are blue in the face. But we are under NO obligation to give the claims in that book any sense of value merely because you fell for it. Your baggage is not ours.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline we will not barbecue your kittens
mmmm. barbecue kittens...
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Offline I'm still waiting on one of you to man up, ask your mother for permission to use your nuts, and tell me your version of how everything came to be. Surely there is at least one among you that's not a coward? So, let's hear it chicken-$hit.
I'm still waiting for you to address my argument, which completely refuted your own. Your desperate lies amuse me.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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Offline This is for everyone who thinks all biological organisms can be explained by naturalistic mechanisms. When I use the word "evolution" in this thread, I am referring to darwinian evolution (common ancestry via random mutations and natural selection). 1. Do you consider evolution to be proven scientifically? 2. How did life with specifications for hundreds of proteins originate from inorganic matter just by chemistry without intelligent design? 3. How did the DNA code originate? 4. How could copying errors (mutations) create 3 billion letters of DNA instructions to change a microbe into a microbiologist? 5. Why is natural selection taught as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life? 6. How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate? 7. Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed? 8. How did multi-cellular life originate? 9. How did sex originate? 10. Why are the (expected) millions of transitional fossils missing? 11. How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years? 12. How did blind chemistry create mind/intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality? 13. Why do you reject the idea of an Intelligent Designer?
This thread is really long. I don't feel like reading through the whole thing to make sure I'm not repeating things other people have said so I'm not going to.
1. Evolution is a scientific Theory based on a mountain of evidence, and accepted by the vast majority of scientists in the field, so I take it a lot more seriously than things that aren't scientific theories supported my mountains of evidence and accepted by the scientific community.
2. I don't know how abiogenesis happened. I can't think of any reason why it couldn't happen, and it doesn't add the extra complication of a completely unexplained designer so I see no reason to disbelieve it, but who knows maybe life really originated from something else. Maybe it was really done by Glorgone who descended from the higher plains on her never ending journey to seed life throughout the multiverse. If it wasn't abiogenesis I can come up with a limitless number of alternate possibilities both with and without “intelligent design”, but abiogenesis by far seems like the simplest explanation.
3. I don't know how the DNA code originated. I imagine that this question would better answered by a scientist who studies this type of thing. I'm sure they could tell you all about possible precursors to DNA. By the way, isn't this question really similar to the last one? Both questions basically amount to can you explain in detail how something happened with what I assume is a hidden assumption that if I can't explain it the answer is that it must have been done by god. Really though, my inability to explain in detail exactly how modern living organism came about is irrelevant to the question of whether or not some kind of "intelligent designer" existed/s or not. Just like my inabilities to explain exactly how my computer works has no relevance on my ability use the internet, because the limits of my personal knowledge doesn’t dictate reality. The reason I accept the theory of evolution is because it is backed by the evidence, and not because I understand every detail of how it happened. Evidence dictates my beliefs. For example I don't believe my computer was made by some kind of magical unexplained entity because there is a tone of evidence it was made by human beings, and there is no evidence that it was made by a magical unexplained being. The fact that I don't know exactly how my computer works or how exactly it was made is irrelevant. Evidence is king. I suppose that this leads into a discussion about what constitutes evidence, but this reply is getting long. Maybe some other time, or not as the case may be.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:1. If you had read the initial post, you wouldn't look like an ass by trying to explain to me what I have clearly demonstrated to know. 2. Oh, okay. Find proof that God doesn't exist to DISPROVE IT. Happy hunting. 3. By all means, send me the link.jackspell wrote:Here's the bottom line folks:
Nobody has EVER seen how inorganic matter could come together and form the complex molecules making up amino acids, proteins, DNA, genes, chromosomes, etc. If you're an atheist that is most likely a naturalist, since you have BELIEF IN SOMETHING WITHOUT PROOF, that is FAITH. You can cry about it all you want, but until someone observes abiogenesis without intelligent design, you are relying heavily on faith.
Nobody has EVER observed an organism evolve beyond its Biological Classification system. We have been working with E.Coli for over 100 years and NEVER has there been a single one of them evolve into anything other than E.Coli. NEVER! And if any of you have actually read into what evolutionary scientists say about the fossil record, you'd see that they ADMIT the lack of expected transitional fossils. But that's a lot of your problems, you don't even do your own reading. You rely on BLIND FAITH by not even checking into these things yourself. That's pathetic. I mean does anybody that knows what an exponent is really believe that random mutations are the sole source of all the information contained in the human genome? Or some of the even more complex genomes contained in some plants? I guess I take for granted everyone is as educated mathematically as I am, so let me simplify. In 24 consecutive years, the E. Coli evolutionary experiment has been reproducing at a maximal rate, with every generation being observed and documented. THE NUMBER OF BENEFICIARY MUTATIONS THAT HAVE BECOME FIXATED IS BETWEEN 10 and 20.
Let me bottom line your bottom line:
1. Life from non-life is abiogenesis. It has nothing to do with evolution. Do we know how abiogenesis works? No, not yet (scientists are working on it). Does that mean we have to throw up "Goddidit" and stop thinking as you apparently have?
2. Evolution guarantees that you will never see animals jump from one clade (biological classification system) to another. As I said, finding such an animal is what you creationists need to do so you can disprove the theory. Happy hunting.
3. If you'd read what evolutionary biologists have written on the subject instead of trusting ID apologists who couldn't provide an honest report if their tongues were notarized, you'd know that we have so many transitional fossils that scientists are forced to ask questions about fossils like "Is this a mammal with reptilian qualities or is it a reptile with mammalian qualities?"
Stop making this so easy.
I did. You don't know what you're talking about.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline What are the odds of a creationist existing? A particular creationist is the product of a single sperm and egg. Assuming a modestly active couple there are 28 ejaculations per ovulation cycle and a minimum of 20 million sperm. In the best case the odds against a creationist existing at 20 million to 1.
But of course no creationist can exist without parents. Each parent is also the consequence of 20 million to 1 leading to a 40 million to 1 odds against the existence of a single creationist. Of course that leads us to grandparents which means the odds are 4e7x4e7 or 1.6e15 odds against the existence of a creationist. For those not familiar with the notation that is 1,600,000,000,000,000 to 1 against. Of course that is only two generations. A reasonable assumption is five generations per century.
If we limit ourselves to the biblical 4004 BC we have 60x5 generations or 300 generartions. That gives us 2e7 per generation to 2e2100 to 1 against the existence of creationists.
Yet creationists exist. Therfore there must be gods and goddesses which created them.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
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Offline What are the odds of a creationist existing? A particular creationist is the product of a single sperm and egg. Assuming a modestly active couple there are 28 ejaculations per ovulation cycle and a minimum of 20 million sperm. In the best case the odds against a creationist existing at 20 million to 1.
But of course no creationist can exist without parents. Each parent is also the consequence of 20 million to 1 leading to a 40 million to 1 odds against the existence of a single creationist. Of course that leads us to grandparents which means the odds are 4e7x4e7 or 1.6e15 odds against the existence of a creationist. For those not familiar with the notation that is 1,600,000,000,000,000 to 1 against. Of course that is only two generations. A reasonable assumption is five generations per century.
If we limit ourselves to the biblical 4004 BC we have 60x5 generations or 300 generartions. That gives us 2e7 per generation to 2e2100 to 1 against the existence of creationists.
Yet creationists exist. Therfore there must be gods and goddesses which created them.
Pardon but I failed to multiply by 28 per ovulation cycle. That means the correctly impossible odds against are 5.8e2101 to 1 against. The devil is always in the creationist isn't it.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
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Offline Aw man. I now you hate when this happens. WARNING: ANOTHER IDIOTIC ATHEIST TRYING TO ACCUSE RELIGON OF CAUSING ALL THE DEATH AND SUFFERING IS ABOUT TO BE STEAMROLLED WITH FACT. THESE IMAGES MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
Vox Day, in The Irrational Atheist, lists 22 atheistic regimes that committed 153,368,610 murders in the 20th century alone:
Murders by Atheists (20th Century)
CountryDatesMurders Afghanistan 1978-1992 1,750,000 Albania 1944-1985 100,000 Angola 1975-2002 125,000 Bulgaria 1944-1989 222,000 China/PRC 1923-2007 76,702,000 Cuba 1959-1992 73,000 Czechoslovakia 1948-1968 65,000 Ethiopia 1974-1991 1,343,610 France 1793-1794 40,000 Greece 1946-1949 20,000 Hungary 1948-1989 27,000 Kampuchea/Cambodia 1973-1991 2,627,000 Laos 1975-2007 93,000 Mongolia 1926-2007 100,000 Mozambique 1975-1990 118,000 North Korea 1948-2007 3,163,000 Poland 1945-1948 1,607,000 Romania 1948-1987 438,000 Spain (Republic) 1936-1939 102,000 U.S.S.R. 1917-1987 61,911,000 Vietnam 1945-2007 1,670,000 Yugoslavia 1944-1980 1,072,000
LISTEN JACKASS, this shit wont wash here. Superstition never left ANY of those countries you listed, regardless of the dictatorships that lead them. The USSR when it fell, the churches popped back up, SO RELIGION NEVER LEFT. China is a majority Buddhist. Afghanistan is a Muslim country, France never had religion leave even during Napoleon.
Absolute rule by one is what a dictator is, so since your god is the absolute final law giver, whose laws cannot be changed, and a being that cannot be removed from his position via the will of the people, it seems to me that your God has more in common with the dictators you FALSELY lump in with all atheists.
I CAN DO THAT TOO
All Catholics are child molesters because of the actions of some priests. All men who have mustaches love Hitler.
You cannot defend your invisible friend claim so the last bastion is to demonize people who don't buy your superstition.
Grow the fuck up Jack. No one here wants to burn down churches or rape your women. You wont get cooties from us. You simply cannot stand that someone doesn't buy your god claim. TOO FUCKING BAD. That is YOUR baggage, not ours.
What you WILL NOT get away with is this pathetic tactic in trying to paint us out to be monsters.
Thomas Jefferson must have been a dictator too, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear'. He also equated the virgin birth as being in the same myth category as "Minerva being born out of the brain of Jupiter".
Jefferson was not an atheist, but he damned sure would have hated your bullshit tactic of fear mongering and demonizing.
I wouldn't care if any dictator said "I don't believe in a god", I am not them and would not side with any human merely based on a label. Unlike your god claim which demands blind loyalty which is what leads ALL humans to the stupid tribalism created by utopia thought.
The state should not be worshiped blindly nor should any religion or god be worshiped blindly, nor any politician, celebrity or even a parent. So whatever you post from here on out DO NOT repeat this bullshit stereotype of atheists. You will get your ass verbally handed to you again.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline Brian you're trying too hard. I'll help:
World War II fatality statistics vary, estimates of total dead ranging from 50 million to over 70 million.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
Gee, all it took to blow that whole list of bs away was one religious war involving primarily jews and christians. Not to mention the billion other religious conflicts over the eons. Or the fact that a significant number of the so-called atheist regimes listed were anything but atheist regimes.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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Offline Brian you're trying too hard. I'll help: World War II fatality statistics vary, estimates of total dead ranging from 50 million to over 70 million. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties .
...also consider how technology or the lack thereof could aid or hinder a body count in this Christian argument of who killed more.
Just think what the Old Testament "heroes" could have done to increase their kill factor if they had dispensed with their bronze swords and war clubs and instead attacked the Midianites with modern weaponry ? And what carnage would result if their pagan enemies were similarly equipped ?
What if the Crusaders instead of attacking with swords and lances had instead attacked the Holy land with Short Range Ballistic Missiles and followed up with mechanized infantry ? ...and then the Muslims counter attack with massed battalions of Main Battle Tanks ? Would this likely increase the body count ? ...perhaps even comparable to modern tallies ? Of course !
For any Christian to simply compare body counts as a measure of ruthlessness is getting side tracked and ignoring the limitations faced by the ancients. The intent of the religious armies to kill as many of God's enemies as possible should never be doubted. The lower body counts of the religious attackers are simply a manifestation of their inferior weaponry not a lack of murderous zeal.
Remember the phrase "Kill them all, God will recognize his own" wasn't uttered by a fucking atheist.
If the religious armies of antiquity can't match the lethality and high body counts of modern "atheist" regimes then that is simply a matter of primitive weapons being compared to modern weapons. Nothing there for Christians to interpret as a moral victory.
Does anyone really think that if Joshua or David or Solomon had access to tactical nukes that their enemy body count wouldn't wouldn't have increased just as dramatically ? And Moses ...with a simple push of a button... could have ensured that Pharaoh and his armies would have disappeared beneath a glowing mushroom cloud instead of beneath the waves of the Red Sea.
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Offline Atheistextremist wrote:Appeal to authority. And it's not 'Darwinism'. It's the scientific theory of evolution by natural selection. If we could be bothered we could find statistics showing vast numbers of scientists accept the modifiable hypothesis of evolutionary theory.
But what's the point? Would it realign your motivated reasoning? I think not.
AE,
I stumbled on to this PROJECT STEVE which is a parody of the "creationist list". Basically they are asking any scientist who are named Steve (or a variation of the name Steve) to sign the list supporting evolution.
http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve
http://ncse.com/taking-action/list-steves
They are way ahead of the creationist list with only this small portion of scientists.
I also found the following:
Inspired by Project Steve, and motivated by media coverage of the Discovery Institute's "Dissent From Darwinism" list, during the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case, R. Joe Brandon initiated a four-day, word-of-mouth petition of scientists in support of evolution in October 2005. During the four-day drive A Scientific Support For Darwinism And For Public Schools Not To Teach Intelligent Design As Science gathered 7733 signatures of verifiable scientists.During the four days of the petition, A Scientific Support for Darwinism received signatures at a rate 697,000 percent higher than the Discovery Institute's petition, A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism, according to archaeologist R. Joe Brandon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientific_Support_For_Darwinism
In four days in the fall of 2005, starting on September 28, 2005 and ending at 4:09 pm Eastern Time, October 1, 2005, the petition supporting "Darwinism" gathered 7,733 verified signatures from concerned scientists. Of these, 6,965 were US residents and 4,066 had PhDs. The "Four Day Petition" was carried out with no outside funding or assistance of any professional society. The effort was carried out by e-mail and word-of-mouth.
Among the signatories were 21 U.S. National Academy of Science members, nine MacArthur Fellowship awardees, and a Nobel laureate. According to Brandon's analysis, of those who signed his petition, there were
3,385 with biology in their title
850 with anthropology/archaeology
680 with evolutionary & ecology
394 from the field of genetics
270 from geology and related fields
234 from the fields of physics, astronomy, or space sciences
111 chemists
110 psychologists
75 computer scientists
50 engineers
Therefore, about 68 percent of those signing the Brandon petition work in biology-related fields (using the first four categories from the list above).[1]
This "Scientific Support" petition collected signatures at a rapid pace. The responses to the Brandon petition arrived at a rate 697,000% faster than the signatures collected on the Discovery Institute Darwin Dissent petition.
Sure it's an appeal to crowded authority but what the hell. Thanks for going to the trouble of that.
The point in any case, is that Jack will never understand the fundamental underpinnings of our collective position, the modifiable hypothesis.
His conservative mind demands a concrete answer, even though that answer is not the correct answer, he will never let it go.
Verily, when he dies Jackspell will be flung into a shallow pit by demons in black suits and countless microorganisms will gnaw on his remains and recycle him into his constituent molecular parts, and restore him unto the food chain, for all eternity.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline Aw man. I now you hate when this happens. WARNING: ANOTHER IDIOTIC ATHEIST TRYING TO ACCUSE RELIGON OF CAUSING ALL THE DEATH AND SUFFERING IS ABOUT TO BE STEAMROLLED WITH FACT. THESE IMAGES MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
Vox Day, in The Irrational Atheist, lists 22 atheistic regimes that committed 153,368,610 murders in the 20th century alone:
Murders by Atheists (20th Century)
CountryDatesMurders Afghanistan 1978-1992 1,750,000 Albania 1944-1985 100,000 Angola 1975-2002 125,000 Bulgaria 1944-1989 222,000 China/PRC 1923-2007 76,702,000 Cuba 1959-1992 73,000 Czechoslovakia 1948-1968 65,000 Ethiopia 1974-1991 1,343,610 France 1793-1794 40,000 Greece 1946-1949 20,000 Hungary 1948-1989 27,000 Kampuchea/Cambodia 1973-1991 2,627,000 Laos 1975-2007 93,000 Mongolia 1926-2007 100,000 Mozambique 1975-1990 118,000 North Korea 1948-2007 3,163,000 Poland 1945-1948 1,607,000 Romania 1948-1987 438,000 Spain (Republic) 1936-1939 102,000 U.S.S.R. 1917-1987 61,911,000 Vietnam 1945-2007 1,670,000 Yugoslavia 1944-1980 1,072,000
secular atheistic regimes, Jack, you pinhead. Like all societies on the planet they are religious and irreligious 'polyglots'. The fact you'd try to shoehorn Spain and the USSR in there is plain grubby-minded.
All these nations were wracked with geo-political, class and ethnic violence. Pinning it on a lack of belief in god is feeble-minded.
In fact, if anything eliminates sectarian violence, it's the separation of church and state and the institutions of rule of law based on secular humanistic principles.
Who do you really think came up with concepts like freedom of worship, freedom of expression? It certainly wasn't a religion.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline
The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim. Not on a person making a claim and asking others to disprove it. The burden of proof is on YOU, to prove that god exists. So far, you have made alot of assumptions but no proof.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Really dude? I'm surprised your posting priviledges haven't been suspended because you are embarrassing your fellow atheists. They are ashamed for you to were that badge. Somebody stop this guy's suffering. So, Harvard, Yale, Duke, Notre Dame, UNO, aren't credible because their "religious" schools? Yeah, you're right. If I had to settle for Harvard or Yale because I couldn't get accepted to a prestigious community college like you did, I definitely would keep that off my resume. IF YOU CANT PRODUCE EVEN ONE SCHOOL THAT OFFERS AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE IN ATHEISM OR DARWINISM THEN STOP HUMILIATING YOURSELF BY ATTEMPTING TO DEGRADE IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS.
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
So Harvard is awarding Ph.D's in Young Earth Creationism ? Interesting. So why then have you had to rely upon "pure speculation" ?
Christians are losing the battle. They will either convert to atheism or they will become slaves in the new world order. The anti-christ will eventually take over the world and then defeat their god in a final battle. Then the anti-christ will suck on the flesh of those who didn't join his side and he will ravage heaven and steal all the souls. All the angels will have their wings ripped from them and their halos will be converted in to jewelry. Then the universe will live in perfect harmony.
HAHAHAHA!!! So I guess instead of taking my advice and ending this pathetic argument, you insist on forcing me to make you look even more like a babbling nincompoop. You said ''creationism'', not ''young earth creationism''.
THEOLOGY: philosophically oriented discipline of religious speculation and apologetics that is traditionally restricted, because of its origins and format, to Christianity but that may also encompass, because of its themes, other religions, including especially Islam and Judaism.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/590855/theology
CREATIONISM: the belief that the universe and the various forms of life were created by God out of nothing (ex nihilo). It is a response to modern evolutionary theory, which explains the emergence and diversity of life without recourse to the doctrine of God or any other divine power.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/142233/creationism
Theology=Creationism, Will Hunting. What are going to scramble to modify your criteria to next? Schools with PhD's in young earth creationists, who like old women and new world order (NWO Wolfpack). What about creationist lawn care specialists who over-eat?
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
What's funny is your best case scenario is worse than that. What happens when you die? Your body becomes one with the earth? Fertilizer? What's your heaven, you get to become a big beautiful tree? I hope your right, and you do get to become a tree. I hope one day while your enjoying a nice breeze, and out of the bushes comes a big sweaty dude with an axe. I hope he chops you down, drags you threw the mud, runs you through a mill, pounds you into paper, and then, I hope they print the Bible on you.
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
Here's a link about Dr. Kurt Wise. http://chalcedon.edu/research/articles/harvard-trained-paleontologist-what-the-bible-says-is-data-to-me/ He's a Harvard grad who's a Young Earth Creationist.
Here's a link about Dr. Nathaniel T. Jeanson. www.icr.org/article/new-icr-research-associate-nathaniel He's also a Harvard graduate and a Young Earther. In fact he's currently employed by Institutes for Creation Research which until his death, helmed by YEC advocate Henry Morris.
Google these two Harvard grads if you doubt their connection to the preposterous position of Young Earth Creationism. Laugh if you want to, it changes nothing. An educated fool is the worst kind of fool.
A sick Christian like you can print a bible on the flayed skin of my body if gives you a hard-on, but alas, at the end of the day it will still be a book of fairy tales.
So because two representives are YEC's the whole school is? 2 atheists shot up Columbine. By your logic, that means you are also a mass-murderer.
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
They were also white males. I guess that implicates you as well. You really have nothing of substance to add ...do you ?
Ooooh... there you go again. Taking credit for some one else work. You suck dude. You are the worst of the worst.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TXtVzj9y-bo#t=275s
By YOUR LOGIC, emphasis on YOUR LOGIC, then yes, I am also. That was my point of my last post. You are encompassing all of Harvard based on 2 graduates beliefs. That is YOUR LOGIC. So now, with my Columbine reference, you see the absurdity of your logic?
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
I claimed that post to be original? Show me where I said that. So you really think I would post, word for word almost, one of the funniest parts of Dane Cook's most successful routines, and not EXPECT one of the who-knows-how-many people on here to recognize it? I was counting on it, moron! There were actually a couple of Dumb and Dumber quotes on here earlier. You want me to show you where so you can post a YouTube link and accuse them of unoriginality too?
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
It's about time you came to your senses. I was wondering when you would renounce your religion after you promised to do so if I posted proof countering your previous claims.
I think you should post a public apology to every one and let them know what a douche bag you were; and be sincere as we will know when you are lying.
Still waiting for that creation evidence.
What does it matter ? They are both two equally implausible theories. Despite the difference of duration they both employ supernatural intervention. God POOFS things into existence.
Go back and look. I didn't say I had any evidence as to how exactly God's mechanism works. Rather, I was CHALLENGED for an explanation, so I gave my opinion on how it might work, which is more than anybody else in this thread has the BALLS to do. I guess I should stop asking, because we all know none of you will man up and give me the FACTS you have knowledge of regarding how are universe came into existence. Lets face it, we both know why. Even though you don't have the slightest idea, like me belief, your's also entails the metaphysical necessity of an uncaused cause, and an explanation of where the matter and energy came from. You call my worldview implausible due to the supernatural? SO GIVE ME YOUR PLAUSIBLE ANSWER. Why will no one try? Because we all know, based on your own criteria, you DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER!
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
AND THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING..............HELLO MCFLY................MAYBE YOU DON'T BECAUSE THERE IS NO GOD.
All you have is wishful thinking and mental masturbation. You are merely one human in our species history that has done this falsely thinking a super hero exists.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Now you stoop to the level of forging quotes from me? Look dude, I'm not trying to run up the score on you. I'll just kneel the ball if you stop being childish, okay?
Interesting you claim my religion is responsible for the murders of millions of innocent people. How so? The history of human warfare goes back to the beginning of recorded history (and, no doubt, well before that). A recent comprehensive compilation of the history of human warfare, Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 have been classified to involve a religious conflict. So, what atheists have considered to be "most" really amounts to less than 7% of all wars. It is interesting to note that 66 of these wars (more than 50%) involved Islam, which did not even exist as a religion for the first 3,000 years of recorded human warfare.
Since the United States of America is and has been one of the most religious countries over the last 200+ years, if the atheists are correct, the U.S.A. should have been involved in the largest number of religious wars of any other nation. In fact, the United States has been involved in 17 wars, only one of which (the current "War on Terror") has any religious entanglement. The number of Americans who have died as the result of religious wars is 14.2/year, which is less than the number of people who die yearly from dog bites.
The atheist claim that religion is the cause of most wars is shown to be false. The history of human warfare shows that less than 7% of all wars have religious causes. If atheists are correct, the most religious industrial nation, the United States of America, should be involved in more religious wars than any other country. However, only the "War on Terror," among all 17 American wars, involves a religious component.
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
DO YOU HAVE AN EXPLANATION?
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
No need to. I already know what a non answer looks like.
I don't want your fucking opinion I want evidence.
What's with all your alpha male tough talk bullshit ? You've already proven that all you bring to this discussion is emotion.
Yes, the science behind evolution and the Big Bang is a well guarded secret and is only available to a select few ( and of course there's always the internet as an investigative tool but that would be too difficult. )
Since you have utterly failed to provide even a shred of evidence to support your Old Earth/ Progressive Creation "theory" I have decided to bypass you altogether. I did something that anyone can do. I did a Google search and found a web site that is friendly to your pov.
www.godandscience.org/youngearth/six_days_of_creation.html
It's completely devoid of scientific evidence ( surprise ! ) but attempts to justify their Old Earth view simply by linguistic games involving their interpretation of Hebrew scripture.
Now, if I can go to a web source and find out about this Creation "theory" that you love so much then you can just as easily do the same regarding evolution. Go online and talk to the experts and stump them with your "pure speculation"
We're done here.
MUHAHAHAHAHA.... "Hello McFly..." ooooh, I am laughing so hard... that was so fucking funny.
Trying to carry a conversation with you is like talking to a four year old. You don't pay attention to your superiors while your cartoon is on the television. You hide in the corner when you are being scolded. You lie when you are confronted with the truth.
Making up a quote is a deliberate and necessary process to snap you out of the daydream you are currently wandering in.
LOL. You think you are going to kneel the football in your own endzone go right ahead; it's the only points you are going to score.
You talk about having facts but you aren't presenting any thing that is factual. It is faith that supports your opinion that these myths are real.
Christianity is responsible for the deaths of pagan religious followers which were outlawed, the crusades, the explorations to central america, south america, north america, south pacific, caribbean, africa and australia (to name a few). The crusades killed over four million people in the first five crusades and I don't believe that number accounts for the deaths of the christian sides. All this in the name of a mythological god?
And let us not forget all those who the bible claims died, also the religious martyrs and religious terrorism.
Most religious country in the last 200+ years? Another fallacy? Why do you continue?
I won't count any war with America. It's ambiguous. I can't recall any war started by america which was based on religion. Even the Iraq war was based on greed. Though I'm sure christians fought many of those wars thinking their enemy were "devils"
Aw man. I now you hate when this happens. WARNING: ANOTHER IDIOTIC ATHEIST TRYING TO ACCUSE RELIGON OF CAUSING ALL THE DEATH AND SUFFERING IS ABOUT TO BE STEAMROLLED WITH FACT. THESE IMAGES MIGHT BE DISTURBING.
Vox Day, in The Irrational Atheist, lists 22 atheistic regimes that committed 153,368,610 murders in the 20th century alone:
"In this book, they list ten steps in the course of human evolution, each of which is so improbable that before it would have occurred the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have burned up the earth. They estimate the probability of the evolution of the human genome by chance to be on the order of 4∧(360)^110,000, a number which is so huge that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement. In other words, if evolution did occur, it would have been a miracle, so that evolution is actually evidence for the existence of God”-William Lane Craig
SEE IF YOU CAN SPOT THE PATTERN"
"You don't know so therefore Allah did it"
"You don't know so therefore Yahweh did it"
"You don't know so therefor Vishnu did did it"
Its called gap filling.
And yes the explanation is that you, and every claimant of every deity ever uttered in our evolution is merely the invention of human imagination.When you understand why the gods others claims are merely made up gap answers, you should have no problem seeing that even your own is merely your own wishful thinking.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Glad to be of service. Be sure and tip your bartenders and waitresses.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
There is no need to address an arbitrary gods concept. It is your invention. It does not differ from any other arbitrary invention.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml