Heavy Shit, some may understand... the lost father.
Offline It's not the first time I've randonly let the rant fly on this subject here... And I'm sooo gona regret this in the morning but I just dont have a soul in my life I can bounce this off of. It's the only place I'm pretty sure no-one I know will stumble across. lol. And after 14 beers and a great fight night with friends I'm gona toss out a situation I'm dealing with that some may have something to say about or atleast relate to. My father left when i was 11, dissapeared to no-wheres-ville a small beachtown a couple ferry rides away from town. Recently through facebook he found and contacted my older sister, and then through her got my email address. Over the last year and especially so in the last 3 months, we have been having some loose forth and back via email, some getting a little heated naturally. Just a backdrop, my parents were hardcore Johovahs Witnesses and pushed their joho dogma on us kids fiercly. My father is as left field as you could imagine... He is, well, a space case drama queen with many medically diagnosed unbalances he has pills perscribed for. Quite inteligent and incredibly creative the very best guitar player I have ever known and has some impressive computer programming skills for a 60 year old, clearly a capable person. My father is in my opigion not an "evil" man with conciously bad intentions. He's just a very very strange man with basic border and socialization issues and a pretty messed up life. To you all... as a secret I don't even ever mention to those closest in my life, my father beat me and my sister I would say at a 6 out of 10 level, a 10 being outright violent abuse so not that bad in comparison to many but just enough to make it a real issue, more so it was how strange of man he was and how uncomfortable he made you with his presence. He also seemed to have some border issues with my sister where he made innapropriate comments as she grew older (eg..."You are becoming a knockout" " We should run away together, your mother doesn't understand me..." ya you get the point just wierd stuff) but never acted on his questionable comments. It could very well be he is just such a "guts all in" let the crazy fly out-type free spirit and really does honestly have no understanding of why his behavior and comments would be considered innapropriate by many, but I would have no way of knowing.
He is not "evil", but he is the kind of person who when his 7 year old daughter (my older sister by 4 years I was 3 at the time) decided to strike back when being physically punished by him from bum slaps with her pants down and using the power generated from her fear and punched that 280lbs man straight in the eye ball and knocked him flat on the floor and gave him black eye that lasted for over a week, his reaction was to hit her back so hard in the face she had to be taken away by the paramedics for immidiate medical attention where my mother white lied a little to cover what really happened. Simply put... she my tuff sis freaked out and popped him from straight adrenaline, it hurt him, so he reacted by hitting her back with no holding back 280lbs man strength. He fully admits to this behavior he claims he regrets so much. After that he never laid a finger on her, and figrued I the son should be the punching bag of his "lessons" and dicipline. Not to wine pr anything the average beatdowns wernt the end of the world, it wasn't by no means as bad as what some out their went through I'm sure, not at all, just strange, again what I remeber the most was how he was imposing and strange to the point you were very cautious and just wiereded out by him. He left long before I was coming into my own as a individual. I asked him last week just out of pure curiosity where he stands on Christianity and its dogma after all these years he is disfellowshipped and well shunned from the johos (he couldn't rationalize a loving god after my middle sister lived a died a painfull deathat the age of 3 from the many diseases she was born with, so his faith was shot, he lost his interest and he was "disfellowshiped" from the cult and is still to this day shunned by the organization. His flimbsy reply to my question about his position on christian dogma after I declared mine was:
Take the time to read it again but this time,Remember that the meaning of Yahweh's name is "he who makes become"one name, four Hebrew letters, four words.make become: two verbs almost synonym, used together.The power of God is like the tide. The tide, by itself, never hurt-ed anyone. It progresses slow but relentlessly. No one can slow, speed or stop the tide. The tide, the greatest power on earth, is controlled by the sky, the Moon. John Lennon said it all in Imagine. No personal possessions No Country, No Boundaries, No religion too, Only sky. I have paragraphs of this kind of of fluffy stuff in my inbox from him, I mean it's just fluff nonsense, I'm trying to find a level maybe to connect with on old man in his final years who is my genetic father but I haven't even seen for over half of my life and feel no real connection too. I have no idea how to react to this ratioanlly. Is it the honorable thing to give this man who makes me so uncomfortable chance to make his peace with his children, or is it none of my concern at this point to little too late...??? I'm feeling kind of indiferrent and "eh" about the hole thing but still ihe is blood and so it causes stres. Again, thanks for listening...
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I have paragraphs of this kind of fluffy stuff in my inbox from him, he writes these hazy elaborate emotional messages that don't seem to say anything, its all just wierd. I'm genuinly trying to find some/any level maybe to connect with on old man in his final years who is my genetic father that I haven't even seen for over half of my life and feel no real connection too but despite everything I still feel for the guy, he's old and alone and relfecting deeply on the mistakes of his life, his last wife just died recently, he's wierd so most likely people avoid him etc... I have no idea how to react to this ratioanally because it's not a rational matter. Is it the honorable thing to give this man who makes me so uncomfortable a chance to make his peace with his children, or is it none of my concern at this point to little too late type thing...??? I'm feeling kind of indiferrent and "eh" about the hole thing but still he is blood and so it causes stress.
Again, thanks for listening...
Let me see if I got this straight.
You are wondering if you should try to reach out to him? and if so how to do it?
Well, I'll start with my sympathies.
ONLY because you are torn, would I suggest allowing your dad to patch it up. If you don't, you may find yourself regretting it later when your emotions figure themselves out.
That said, I wouldn't get too close. He should understand that he fucked up about as badly as a father can. And he took way too long to try and fix it. There is little to no trust.
I'd forgive him, but limit contact to holidays and the like. Through the phone or computer. I'd have no interest in 'hanging out' or having long discussions.
You are of course free to ignore or follow any of this at your own discretion. Other people will look at it differently than I.
I had a friend who's dad abandoned him and sister/mother when he was a toddler. I remember the only time he'd ever mention his dad was with the accompanying promise of extreme violence should they ever meet.
Personally, I wouldn't have responded to his email.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Pretty much what I would have said...
though not responding to the email could have still caused regret. It's better to say what you want to say before the chance disappears.
I come from a family of dysfunction and abandonment. My Dad was abandoned by his mother as a little boy. His mother dumped him off at his grandma's on a small tobacco farm in Tennessee when he was a little boy. She came back when he was 16 and wanted him back. He told her to go to hell. She tried to re-connect with him over the years and he tried but never could. Maybe it was because she always tried to push her christian bullshit on him. Even when she came to the hospital on his deathbed she was trying to "save" him. He told the nurse to have her removed.
Now I'm backing up here, when I was about 11, some more dark family shit comes out. My Mom had cheated on him and had me. He wasn't my biological father. That poor fucking guy.
So my Dad has been dead for about 15 years now and my biological father and I haven't tried to connect. We both know who the other is and only see each other at funerals. I hear he is a die-hard christian too.
For years I felt the urge to seek him out, like it would open up a new door in my life or fill some void. -you know what I mean.
Well it turns out I have a brother and sister thru him and I found them on facebook. They already knew about me from their mother, but didn't want anything to do with me. They are disconnected from our father too.
I don't even give a fuck anymore. I have 2 dogs and we are all that each other needs. Love the one's you're with.
Everyone else can go fuck Jesus.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
Dear NMCP, I won't bore you with my own family history, but I would run away from the old man as fast as I can, sever all ties and don't look back. Being genetically connected to someone doesn't require maintaining a relationship with them. Don't be suckered in by sentimental urges. Good luck.
Yeah, true story, man.
My dad is an emotionally constipated person who gets his kicks in the strangest ways, but he has a big heart; you just have to have known him before he became an asshole or, in my case, his only kid. He had a shitty life and he holds grudges for it that carried over to even those closest to him and I try my best to not be like he is, but things could be a lot worse; he could be flat out retarded, backwoods, overly religious, a drug user, an alcoholic, abusive or a combination of horrible things you wouldn't want in a father. In actuality, he's Mensa material and is one of the most devoted people I'll ever know despite his shortcomings.
It sucks that the OP had to grow up with such a let down, but I see it as being detached from something like that is a downright blessing for lack of a better word. Trying to reconnect is like opening up a can of worms. Be glad that such a disappointment didn't pollute your life to the point where you are less of a human being because of it and walk on.
Sorry to hear the shit pile from your past. I can't compare notes with you but I know my dad was an orphan and grew up with nasty catholic nuns who beat the shit out of him. He thought they were so shitty that he left and lived on the streets until he was 16 then he joined the military. Stayed in for 22 years. Got married. Had kids. Really did well for himself.
I agree with your accounting of the dogs. Dogs are loving with out any conditions. They will stand beside you with honor and devotion.
Interesting thread. I thought I had it bad with neurotic and dysfunctional "flower children" yuppies for parents... now I think "lucky me."
My gripe is kinda similar to NCMP's -absentee fathering, in the sense that there was no one around to teach me how to grow into 'man'. I had to teach myself that. So, I've almost positively went searching for male mentors and role models. Mind you, my dad is a great person to be around, but he does NOT someone you would want to learn from about... say... asserting oneself in conversation or handling oneself like an adult in stressful situations.
Only no fundamentalism, and no real physical abuse... until my tween and adolescent years. Then there would be times when both he and my mother would have 'meltdowns' and try to raise holy hell with me because of some meaningless frustration or "Son, I am disappoint" moment they had with me.
And look at me now... my dad is starting to see some of my 'quirks' as normal, and my mother now claims she isn't disappointed with me. Could've me, huh? What, with all shouting and screaming about me not wanting to follow the "every kid to college" mantra of 80s and 90s parenting. No one's parents are saints these days, but still... there are days I wish I had something other than stressed out, registered nurses for parents. The job literally drains away from one's home life, apparently.
As for "crazy", well... there were the meltdowns and neuroses. But there are also a few other things besides that. My dad, in particular, always thought that people were out to get him and me and anyone living with us, and it came out when he had become jilted by the actions of, say, a coworker or friend of his. Also, his nature was to rant and rave every time we both drove up to his mother's (whom he hated but felt obligated towards because of his sister.) It was weird watching him seem burnt out and jaded every time he drove me back to our place south of B'ham, AL. It almost always meant a confrontation between because of whatever 'buzzkill' he would experience afterwards. Granted, she does have a mean streak and tends to sabotage her friendships and the friendships of others, but nevertheless. Who here would willingly subject a kid to that? I'm thinking he, myself, and his mother show traits of what is known as a "mixed state" mood as well as schizoid personality traits, at times. He also some kind of hypochondria, at times.
My mother was not a great deal better so, naturally, I preferred to stay with my dad. The worse thing, I suspect, is that they were both self-medicaters. My dad used all kinds of recreational stuff in the 70s, and my mother was rarely pleasant unless inebriated.
Now, he's on AA and she's diabetic... like her brother and her only child (heh.) My dad came within inches of dying because of his drinking last year.
edit;Kinda sucks knowing I carry some of the hereditary mental and physical traits named here. They are obviously dominant traits.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
It sucks having inherited traits like these, but knowing can be a good thing. At least you got sense enough to be aware of them. Then you at stand half a chance of getting a grip on them. I was already in my 30's before I realized I come from a long line of eccentrics, addicts, and a whole array of other mental and physical defectives.
Evidently, everything in my family had to be a dark secret.
After my brother died and left 2 kids behind, I saw my nephew was leaning on the bottle a little more than the average teenage parties. So i told him he comes from a long line of alcoholics and to be careful not to let it get a hold of him. He thought I was the only one in the family.
But the mental shit you inherited, you can at least confront yourself. You are probably your own best psychiatrist.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
Since my dad was on the streets, an orphan and beaten by nuns he developed a hot temper. I learned from my father how to get angry and frustrated. It was when I was in my 20's I told my mom that I saw how I was becoming my father. I told her I didn't want to be like him. I worked really hard at it and changed my life. I became a better person. I still am half and half of my parents, but I am more aware of the my problems and the solutions for them than my father was when he was younger. I'm pretty damn lucky for my life.
Yeah Bum, I've based most of my self-improvement on just trying not to be like my mother in the ways that she disgusts me. She has a good caring nature. I try to keep that part and trash the rest. IF a person doesn't see the faults in their parents then they won't see their own faults and never improve themselves. Like you I had to battle anger and my temper that I seemed to have inherited. As I said in the "hate" thread, if I didn't have the self-awareness and control that I do, I would be in prison or dead.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
Yup, it's pretty much what is coming naturally here, I feel absolutely no connection to this guy atall, but I do pitty him he writes and writes and writes, eventually I feel I have to awnser. I didn't think I was going to respond much when he first contacted me, but then I found myself caught up in something he said, even arguing with him. It's hard not to feel sorry for him, he is all alone, his last wife is dead, he is very loose upstairs and emotionally all over the place a life long manic depressive and unbalanced in his passion. He sees a squirrel on a tree and he's like taken away to complete bliss, and then 2 seconds later he feels like life isnt worth living, such a uncomfortable person to interact with. He really just makes me feel uncomfortable, but again I find myself responding, even getting riled up.
Thanks for the thoughts...
Wow, so what's the protocal at these gatherings... do you guys talk? Is it just a head nod and a swift walk by? ODo you guys avoid eachother?
Its wierd isn't it, you know he's your close blood, but he's also just some guy, it's unsettling it's like you can pinpoint who they are to you. Id assume you would have even less of a connection to him because he didn't raise you so it might be more straight forward for you what you make of him but who knows...
That void for me will always be a father I could look up to, he's not that guy but yeah i think that void, that of a responsible/hardworking/rational and fun parent who leads by example and earns respect will always be their, I think the only way I (and all people who's parents dropped the ball big time) can maybe fill that particular hole is to raise your own kid right! Yup...that'ell do it.
Nice.
See both sides of the fence seem right, all this guy really did was impregnate my mom, beyond that he took me fishing a couple times, pushed a cult on me and knocked me round a little. Why the fuck should I give a shit he is old and alone? But again I find myself feeling a little sorry for the crazy old man. Damb that conscience and them feelings and shit, always finding a way to cloud your thinking...lol
Nah, I've learned that besides the more extreme cases, all peoples nutty families can be equally stressful and scaring in their own way. Whether your parents were cooky religitards and molded your mind crooked as a child like mine, or your mom drank 4 bottles of wine per night and slept with your friends, or your dad was in a rock band and did coke all night and was incoherent absent his music,or everything in between its all the same stuff, leaves people unsettled.
Hippie parents huh... You ever seen that docementary on that famous extreme hippie man and his family, where he takes his wife and 3 kids under 10 to live in the desert without the ammentites for their entire childhood? Now that's a hippie upbringing that could really scar a kid. All the nutty famlilies have their own unique little nutty parts..
Ya this is a definite effect from lacking a strong honorable father role model, i'm sure some more than others. I'll admit, but not to anyone I knew back then ofcourse although I'm sure they noticed, that when I left the johos in highschool, and emerged into the real world, it was obvious I had some handicap when it came to being "like the boys." I had to learn and immitate what I saw from others who seemed to act that way naturally, guys who were put on sports teams when they were young, and played hockey with their dad in the driveway, went to work with their dad, built the deck in the backyard with their dad, were taught to command respect and not be pushed around...that kind of stuff. Without it, I had a hard time at first keeping up with the assertive banter and behavior of my male peers, but eventually, like we humans are so good at, I learned and adapted, eventually I became overconfident...lol some might say.
Nice to see you be straight kap, no funny quote pics when it comes to famliy I see... Always good to hear a little real life backround on a faceless person whos always cracking you up with random comedic thread jabs.
Yeah man, It would be more clear if I told My whole crazy story but I"m like Prozac and It's pretty lenghty. I"ll keep it simple and just say that our involvement and the subject was taboo with the rest of the family to say the least. The first time I saw him since i was a little kid was at a funeral. I was a few people back from the casket at burial and the guy 10 inches in front of me turns his head a little sideways. It was him. It was like i just saw myself from behind in a mirror. IT was right out of Stephen King's "Delores Claibourne" I freaked out a little then turned and walked away.
The next funeral was his Mother's. Out of respect for some of his other family members, whom I'm close to, I really had no way out without either being an asshole or revealing the story to them. So I just went. At the service it came time to for everyone to file out to the family line and pay last respects. Wouldn't you know it- the way they led us I ended up being the last fucking cat in the whole place and he was the first in line and MY mom was the one in front of me. Really what the fuck are you supposed to do.
We ended up just shaking hands and he said "thanks for coming" . I came to find out later that the whole family already knew anyway and they were all standing on pins and needles. Well no shit they already knew-we look just alike.
Well you asked so there you go. And that's the really short story just pertaining to funerals.
It would take a whole thread for the whole story and I'm sure nobody else gives a shit.
In hind sight, my advice is to take ProzacDeathWish's advice.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia