Wow. what a bitch.

I think you don't give yourself enough credit Teralek. I suspect that you would do exactly the same thing even if you knew for absolute certain there was no afterlife. You are simply a good guy, and would probably be wracked with guilt for ripping her off- even though she apparently doesn't have the same mindset. I spent a good portion of my life in commission sales and have found myself in similar situations where I could have screwed a coworker out of commissions. I don't because when it happens to me (and it has) it pisses me off, unfortunately there are many people out there who simply are inconsiderate. Almost makes me wish there is an afterlife.

If I knew for a fact that someone took my commission, I'd make it a goal to return the favour. Otherwise I'd go by regular policy, whether to share or forfeit the commission.

Thoughts of an afterlife hold no place in the equation. I'd do it because I'd want the same done for me. Because doing it a few times shows you're trustworthy and decent in this, your only life. Not because of some vague and irrelevant fear of an afterlife.

Why do even consider selling stuff to be moral? You're not really working, producing anything of value. You just overcharge the customer and deceive them about your commission. If you were honest and moral, you'd tell the customer how they could obtain the product wholesale.

Why doesn't God torture you for all eternity for ripping people off and getting money for just standing around?

I second that. I 've done plenty of things for people, in this life, that no one will ever know about. Bottom line is, I didn't do it for good credit with the "fictional spirits) good karma, or for any other reason other than I don't like seeing someone suffer or to fall on hard times. 

Yes, I know all great dictators get their followers to do the dirty work.

Good point Luminon.

There is no evidence of any such afterlife existing. If your incorruptible for the simple sake of eternal bliss, then I feel sorry for you. I don't lie, cheat or steal from anyone, for the same reason that you do, it is not within my nature. 

Neurologists and psychologists are already making headway for the chemical components in the brain that can make up sociopathic behavior. Meaning that it might be quite possible that genetic pre-dispositions are at play with some of our traits. So, did god design them that way ? Or was it a mistake along the evolutionary processes ? 

I never said that I was the best guy in the world, nor did I imply that I was not with faults.  By the way, whether people that you are the most incorruptible person that you know, does not make you the most wonderful being on Earth either.  It just means that someone gave you some praise and you felt the need to brag about it.  

Now, I don't need to tell anyone about what I do or don't do. Actions speak a whole lot louder than words.  If I help a pedestrian by the side of the road, I would feel no need to come here and say "HEY EVERYBODY, I DID THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE I AM A RADICAL ATHEIST WITH GOD PARANOIA !,". I am no more paranoid about god, than I am worried about santa claus or the tooth fairy. 

As far as nature vs. nurture goes, that is an age old debate that we have yet to fully know. If all the psychiatrists and psychologists, that have written countless books and articles about it have not arrived at the answer, then I know that I can't. 

Sometimes I wonder if my english is that bad or what... It was I who said it not they!

This alone indicates why you do what you do!

You buy into this from Matthew 25:31-46:

"Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

because, those on the left did not feed those who were hungry, clothe those who were naked et al....

So essentially you are in fear of being cursed by the Jesus into damnation in everlasting fire so under threat you do kindness to others.

Many people are selfish self-centered individuals. People like your co-worker will eventually cut the limb off on the branch they are sitting upon, or IOW, they will crash into a brick wall at a high rate of speed.

They will burn enough bridges that they will become isolated and a pariah unto others.

An afterlife is not required for such.

In your case, you are freely admitting that you live in fear of the consequences of your actions in the real world will result in severe punishment in the unproved afterlife. Hence you attempt to do what you think is the right thing to ass kiss the Jesus so he lets you into the heavenly cloud place.

A very poor reason for being kind and considerate to others.

Rather, people are the most important thing in the world, this world, not the fantasy place you hope for in the myths and storytales.

I think you over generalize here. "Believers" look at the storytales in many different ways. You seem to be of the James persuasion, see James 2:14-26

Others that also believe in the Jesus myths think all they must do is believe and be baptized. Or, Love the god and your neighbor as yourself. Or with your last gasp of air, ask the Jesus for forgiveness for all the evil you have done.

Why the "believers" come here to argue is probably that we may irritate them by simply existing. Some no doubt wish for the good old days when they could simply stone us to death or burn us at the stake.

But alas, these actions are frowned upon in the modern world.

So, instead, they come here to confront us with their beliefs in myths, fantasy and Sci-Fi.

If "believers" repeat over and over again, we are going to burn forever in fire, it perhaps makes them feel so much better about their own lives.

After all, y'all think you are possibly going to be saved and rewarded, (I use think here, because according to the myths you cannot know). But y'all somehow know for sure we all are going to burn forever.

All this from morphed Jewish beliefs in a make believe god that originated either in Egypt or from the myths of Palestine.

I take it you consider "true love" to be the consideration one should give to others, unless of course they pull out a hand gun and start shooting at you.

If you work in the  retail trade for commission, you are in essence a mercenary being paid for winning battles.

As mentioned by others, you are deceiving yourself about doing the right thing by participating in the game.

You may be nice to women, but ask yourself why. Because you want to, or because you need something from them or you never thought otherwise? Again, this is a bad mojo. There are guys who treat women like shit and yet the women adore them. (even some very intelligent and beautiful women) This is a bad quality, but sugarcoated with qualities that turn women on, whether they want it or not. Bad guys, however bad they are, they're not wusses. They're not needy, they do or say what they want and expect the woman to obey - and for women it is reassuring to be in presence of a strong and self-confident man who always knows what to do. Even if he's a thug. That's evolution, man. Keep your good qualities, but check the net if you suffer from the nice guy/wuss syndrome. Watch yourself how often you do or don't do something out of weakness, or desire to avoid confrontation or meeting someone unpleasant, something that you'd do differently if you were strong and self-confident. (sure enough, I've got these moments very often) And you might want to check out David DeAngelo, he's the expert. 

I know it's a tough thing to be comfortable with yourself. Remember, we can be both strong and spiritual. Does that mean the end of self-development? I don't think so. If you get into a relationship, you'll sometimes need patience of a saint Sometimes I think women are here to save us from being total egoists, by making us do things for them. And that is all right, if women can motivate men and get the best out of them.

Yeah, we've got a good and useful belief. Now, imagine an atheist in your place. He'll do exactly the same thing, not out of some supernatural allegiance, but because it is a right thing to do. He'll refuse bribes for being proud of himself, not for afterlife. And also because every bribe we take means a blackmailing material. An atheist can put two and two together, corrupted people aren't free to do what they want, they can't turn around, stop taking bribes and stop obeying the bribers, or shit will hit the fan.

There are of course other methods how to break someone. If they can't find any dirt on you, can you be threatened? Or set up? What if they bully you, like you won't get invited to important meetings? Or they promise you a support unofficially but at the important moment they turn you down? Sometimes they get a guy on live television when he's really unprepared and under pressure and they ask him hard and ambiguous questions, or even deliberately ridiculing questions. That's an old trick to get rid of political opposition...
Sometimes I think there's no salvation for the current political system, it must be all cleaned out and only then decent people can work in there.

 Luminon, 

About women (alhtough this is a sidetalk to the OP). Minds are the playground of thoughts so yes I imagined behaving differently. But for one I can't, it's in my blood, and I don't want to, since I believe I'm doing the right thing. I'm not saying I don't want to learn and I don't need to improve. Actually very recently something very insightful happened that taught me a lot about me and about women. Next time I will not be so ignorant.

But this only goes to prove that bitchness can give you success if you know how to use it, which is actually one of the consequences of the thought line of my OP.

About the Review - inner motivation is at the core of it. Honest and generous motivations are the best. Selfish and inconsiderate motivations are the worst.

I disagree about beliefs. Every single believe system reflects on your behavior. If you believe that fruit is good for you, you probably eat it more often.

If an atheist, faced with the same situation, would act the same way it's because he has a perfectly reasonable reason to do it... or not... since doing because genes say is no reason at all... it's just the way it is.

In my personal case though, I clearly remember my conflicting thoughts and I know my belief system helped in making the decision. Given the fact that I also know that most people would do differently this helps me prove that in some situations a certain belief in the afterlife can give you reasonable support to your actions which otherwise, in physicalism, may seem pointless.

I already tried to make this point some time ago here, but I didn't use a real life example.

About the political system and our world paradigm, I'm losing faith on a daily basis about a fairer world.

Okay... just for the purpose of making my thoughts clear on the issue of God since there is still a lot of people here that seem confused about my beliefs, I will make them more clear.

I avoid talking about God in any arguments since at least 2 years ago. Because I'm incapable and ignorant to form a coherent definition of God.

I believe in a First Cause to the physical Cosmos which has properties of it's own and it's most likely conscient.

Although I believe this I also believe that it's pointless and presumptuous to define a "being" of this magnitude who's true nature rests outside known boundaries of knowledge and physics. We are smart but we are also insignificant and there's a lot that we don't know. At the end of the day We live in the dark.

So the next conclusion is to say that the God issue is irrelevant in virtually all life Earthly life discussions. I think that this First Cause may be in some way related to this intrinsic and "physical" bond of love that binds all consciences together, but this is a thought from my self study, I don't intend to prove it. I hope this made my point more clear on the God issue.

I have no idea what this has to do with any afterlife.

In this life it means you made a decision in favor of group success as in a restaurant where all tips are split among all workers. She however took a one time gain and insured no matter how many times she makes a sale of this kind in the future she never gets half. If she had settled for half then if it happened only twice again she would ahead. Now if it happens twice more she is behind. If she had split she could get half forever. Because she did not she never gets more from this situation than she has now.

Our "morality" is geared towards group success. Her behavior gets here rejected from the group while yours gets you kept because you share. Not the afterlife, this life.

Your logic seems good if not for the fact that everyone in the team would do the same (keep quiet and keep the comission). Competition is praised in this company as you can see by the manager's attitude.

For your logic to play out, others have to know about what I did or didn't do. IF no one knows about what you did your group success thingie is not that marvelous for you.

As I said, I do agree in part with evolutionary morality. It does not explain everything though, if just for the fact that most people would do differently in that particular situation.

Altruism in the large mass of people has it's limits. True that per se afterlife has nothing to do with this. But my original point stands - beliefs influence your behavior, whether belief in afterlife or smurfs. The reason this is so is because beliefs can give logical support to the agent doing it. I think my particular way to see afterlife gives me more solid ground to base altruism when there is not so much logic to support it.

The outcome of what I did was not that great in my group integration. I'd say I stayed the same way as I was basically within my group. Except from an occasional comment of a guy there who said I was the nicest guy he ever knew. I didn't get more invited to parties or get more girls or get praised by the manager. 

I remember very well that period of time, which was not that short, that I was deciding what to do and I know my personal beliefs helped me making the decision - Beliefs influence your behavior. I also thought that despite what I was being told, splitting the commission was the most just thing to do.

You think atheists want thought police and to jail people for showing any signs of religious belief???

The problem with as you say "doing the right thing" is that it doesn't eliminate the source of the problem it prevents there from being a real solution to problems based on what works, science and reason. Religion is at best a placebo for personal and societal problems.

For instance religion tells people not to steal or kill. So maybe some poor people don't steal or kill because they believe they may miss out on heaven. But does this really solve the causes of poverty? No!. So the problems of poverty just continues thanks to using religion instead of reason to solve the problem. So in the long run you're not doing the right thing you're making the problems worse by treating them with a placebo.

Should we treat diseases like cancer with sugar pills we say will cure people or should we use science to solve problems that cause misery?

Again, blanket statements. I don't care whether people wish to believe in god or not. It is when they use religion as a tool for political manipulation that I have a problem. 

Until my niece and nephew grew out of that stage, I made sure to tell them every Christmas that Santa was coming down the chimney (often causing them to stay up late to catch a glimpse, which was inconvenient for all of us adults, because we had to wait for them to go to sleep to drag the presents out). 

While I am not on good terms with much of my family, there are quite a few of us that get along quite well, even though they are Catholic and I am an Atheist. 

My girlfriend believes in a force, a creative intelligence of some type that is behind everything. She doesn't believe in religion, doesn't necessarily see god in an image of man/woman, but believes there is something spiritual beyond our perceived notions of reality. Her and I have been together for quite some time, we have had many deep discussions that were not hostile in the least. They were and are very enjoyable. 

I had a biker friend of mine that got involved in a "christian" motorcycle ministry group. He and I have had long conversations and get alone quite well, in spite of our differences. When he introduced me to some of his riding club, he introduced me as " My Atheist Buddy,". 

There are people that believe the bible and all ancient religions produce evidence of flying saucers and alien civilizations. They even theorize that all the pyramids were constructed by aliens and the Nazis had access to that ancient technology.  What do I care ? Do I believe that ? Nope, I think it is all nonsense.  Doesn't mean I want to take it away from them. 

That remains questionable. If I was anything like the rest of my family, I should still be a church-going, bible -reading, rosary-praying Catholic that has to go to confession on a regular basis. Which I once was.  It took me almost 5 or 6 years before I realized that I no longer believed in god. 

I loathe the idea of giving advice when it is not asked for because when it is bad advice I can't blame the person for asking.

That said you would likely do much better in a field where it is a matter of team work and group success. This would be most any group that requires people responsible to different areas working together. I don't know what you do but literally from restaurant service to program management. The competition there is for promotion and helping the group succeed is a positive thing.

You not ask me and I didn't say that.