Just a Theist stumbling into this den of iniquity...
Offline Just Kidding about the Den of iniquity. I am a Theist but please dont pigeon hole me into a "Bible thumping young earth Creationist" because Im not, so put any pitchforks away. Here is where I am coming from. Overall, I actually believe religion has done more to manipulate and distort the message of Christ than all the Atheists who ever existed combined!
So therefore, Im not here to debate the Bible nor am I here trying to convert anyone. I take the stance of Show me God working in your life or shut the hell up! BTW, I think its foolish for people to push their Bible as the ultimate authority onto a group of people who think its just a comic book for adults, especially when that group more than likely knows more about the Bible than they do. Truth be told, I am skeptical of some of the tenets in the Bible and I view that as healthy because Im not one who is simply going to believe and swallow whole just because Im suppose to. Also, I would never intentionally put myself into a position of being a hypocrite pushing a "Do as I say, not what I do" theology. As a result, I have kept an open mind and have learned a great deal from my atheist friends. Perhaps my greatest lesson learned has been to protect the freedoms and rights of those who do not believe, to support them to live their life to the fullest without any judgment or religion imposing on it. I try to remember first and formost that we are called to love all, not to judge or suppress all!
I believe in science and evolution, but just not an evolution driven by "random mutation." Overall, I find that Science does not threaten or conflict with my Bible beliefs and actually support it.
So my desire is to simply engage and try to understand the other side of the friendly lively discussion while sipping on a nice single malt scotch.
Peace out!
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skeptical theists are a delightful change from the literalists we often encounter. I agree that protecting the right to opinion and doing so mutually and simultaneously is the central plank of social integrity.
Can't help thinking the world lost something when the thinkers of old were crushed under a tidal wave of Augustinian dogma.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
So how do you decide what parts of the Bible are true, which are false or can not be known? How did you come to believe the things you do about the nature of the universe, such as there is a god, afterlife, soul, etc...
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
it's all about finding the subjective path to 'true' christianity...
Welcome among us!
So you're a theist, but not a typical one. What does your religion mean to you now? Do you keep practicing it? For example, my "religion" recommends me to translate and publish some articles, mostly on global events, politics, economy and so on, it also allows me to participate in group meditations. It doesn't force me, I force myself to overcome laziness. That's what I practice. Do you have any such a routine, or you use it as a philosophy?
I can agree with you about Christianity. From my outsider's point of view it looks like the first Christians intended it to be a free socialist hippie life style. But then it was taken over by strong men like Paul of Tarsus (a soldier) and emperors like Constantin. They put a structure into it, hierarchy, offices and eventually it grew into the whole circus that Jesus tried to avoid and criticized in cases of Pharisees, Gentile verbose prayers and so on. That is, an organized religion with a command structure tall as the tower of Babylon, all these funny hats and golden robes between you and God. And they made up the doctrines, so even Evangelicals believe in most of them. In some ways Evangelicals are even worse than Catholics, because they're free to make up anything they want, so in some cases they degenerated into downright tribal shamanic practices.
Some Christians realize, that evolution and common descent of species conflicts with Biblical account of creation. If we evolved from animal ancestry, then we couldn't have been created in a couple days by God in Eden along with all the species. This means no paradise, no magic tree and talking snake, no eternal inheritable sin and no need of salvation from that sin. They realize it makes a moot point out of the Bible.
You have no problem with that?
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Hey all,
Sorry I didn’t get back sooner but my Porn takes precedent over you guys! Ha Ha Ha
@ EXC
My belief in the existence of god first came from science, then confirmed by personal experiencesAt this point the path I am on is to simply follow only the words of Christ just like the very first Christians who didn’t have any bible to reference. I find that more often than not, religion has misinterpreted and have manipulated scripture, so I trust no one. A general rule of thumb for me is, if the interpretation of scripture makes God come off as a trivial, pitiful, tyrannical, condemning, judgmental asshole, then I will reject it untill further notice! So far, I find that religions interpretations are incorrect! Quite frankly, just focusing my walk on the words spoken by Jesus keeps me more than busy dealing with the plank in my own eye, to worry about someone elses splinter.
@Luminon,I don’t have a religion other than to follow only the teachings of Christ. Its just between me and god! My “church” consist of working with a group of people from all different walks of life and beliefs to make 1000 breakfast burritos and passing them out to the hundreds of homeless who line up for them every Sunday. The only preaching is “God loves you” and hand them a Burrito. Give me that free socialist hippie life style over the B.S is observed in the churches today. Example: there is a mega church that spent 25 million dollars on a building. Hell, that could of went to the poor instead and almost eliminate the homeless situation in our city. That would of done a lot more good to spread the “good news” than getting a new building. So yeah, I am totally against institutionalized religion.Science in the last 50 years has evidenced that evolution is anything but random. (It will make for great debate) I believe that Evolution and common descent does not conflict with the Bible (unless you’re a YEC). Regarding YEC, I find it hard to believe that God would be a trickster and make the universe seem to be billions of years old. Although the theory of “random evolution” does not conflict with my beliefs, I find it hard to believe that God would simply create life randomly, but then intervene in the lives of his random creation, especially when God had a goal in mind to “lets make man in our image.”Welcome
I tried to go this route when first facing my doubts about the bible. And if it works for you-that's cool.
Since you seem to accept that the bible contains more than it's share of poo, how do you accept any of it's credibility of what Jesus' teachings really were. Or are just the ideals themselves good enough for you?
I'm sure you know where I am going with this. - Do you believe in a hell at all? if not, why do you need Jesus? if you do believe in hell, why would you want the God of Abraham?
Christianity seems to be your default religion. Isn't love and uncertainty of a beginning and life after death good enough?
For me the bible became kinda like a pal I once had. He was ok to be around, but it didn't take long to realize that he was full of shit, and lies just seemed to spew out of his mouth.
The more lies i heard-the more i hated them. How could I believe anything he said? I set him aside as I did the bible.
God is a fantasy. The God of Abraham is a lie. Anyone claiming to be the son of the God of Abraham is a liar. Anyone telling stories of this God or his son is spreading lies even if their intent is not malicious.
But hey, some people don't set those kinds of pals aside. They just shrug off their bullshit. If you're cool with liars then that's all good.
Welcome again. Good to have ya'. It's good to have theists around that didn't come here just to throw poo at us.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
I hope you don't mind some heavy questions. How do you tackle the problem of evil, existence of eternal fiery Hell and so on? Is it another piece of hateful theology to be rejected? In my opinion certainly, but as you know, it's quite a central point of Christianity, so I've got to ask.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I hope you don't mind some heavy questions. How do you tackle the problem of evil, existence of eternal fiery Hell and so on? Is it another piece of hateful theology to be rejected? In my opinion certainly, but as you know, it's quite a central point of Christianity, so I've got to ask.