Isn't there one bible text that has been meaningful to you?
Offline I am sitting here this am feeling a bit better and can focus on something other than my recovery from surgery and future concerns.
Then the thought hit me "Isn't there one bible text has been meaningful to you?". I thought of Jefferson approach of cutting out all the mumbo-jumbo and seeing what is left. A text here and there popped into my mind, but I knew they didn't even originate with the bible. One would expect there would be many, but the text is twisted around a bizarre fairy tale, which is at time cruel, so it is hard to separate the chaff from the wheat. Ah...a parable type reference, from Matt 3, two paragraphs, where Jesus tells the Pharisees and Sadducees God will burn them in the hells of fire. So for no reason I take so little from it. But I really want to find those "pearls of wisdom" that had some meaning in my years. John 3:16 obviously has no meaning. I fear that anything poetic or helpful will be too couched into the simple-minded story line. God good, man bad, God commits suicide to save man, man must believe or burn. Surely the "most important book in the world" would have great gems.
We all know Shakespeare
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry"
"This above all: to think own self be true"
"The course of true love never did run smooth"
They not only are memorable but helpful. That is what I would expect from a divine book, you know the one where God loves everyone and want everyone to be saved, somebody who cares beyond their own personnel gain or need to be worshipped.
My daughters presented me with a lovely gift pre-surgery. It was a box of pretty stones and they hand painted quotes on them. One is particularly helpful right now. It is a quote by Winston Churchill "If you're going through hell, keep going."
So theist if you got something like this please present them for consideration. And atheist and those in particular who are formerly christian did you have any text that gave you insight into life or help you in someway. And now do they still have the same value as they did.
I am going to post a few that come to mind and give my thoughts on them. Hope some atheist give it a serious go, would truly like to know if the book has some value for everyone.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
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The Beatitudes, Jesus Sermon on the Mount, Part 1.
You have surely seen Jesus in various movies speaking this in tones that nothing said could be more important than what you are hearing right now. Yet, they had little meaning to me. They seem to really support Marx's "Religion is the opiate of the masses" postulate. If I am down trodden, of no count, persecuted, beaten, don't worry, chin up, things will be brighter once you are dead. I cannot help but relate this to Monty Python's "Always look on the bright side of life"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ECUtkv2qV8
So this text is twisted with the bleak fairy tale. It cannot stand on its own for anyone.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
First off I am a sheep. Then I will not be in want. Seems that actions are louder than words here. God's people are perpetually in want. They are ever fearful that the powers of this world will cause them to slip or see tow gay men kiss. They are persecuted for God's sake. So this is a bit of an empty promise. At least this side of death. Maybe that is all Christianity can offer is a pie in the sky, sweet by and by.
So he leads me around to nice spots. But he guides me in the paths of righteousness, not because it is just a good idea, it is to make sure God gives his props. That is quite irritating about the bible. God always needs to be stroked. That is quite rich in the book of Ezekiel.
See http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/2010/05/gods-ego-problem.html
I rarely got comfort from God. He seems like an rageaholic. It is hard not to see that as you read the bible as I was dedicated to. He continually has a problem with what you did or didn't do (John Stewart on the Daily Show introduce Howard Stern that way). You know being a sinner you can never get it right. You are an idiot and need God to bail you out yet again. So having this cranky old Jewish Guy walking with me in my time of need just hasn't cut it. Shit, he even brings a rod and staff with him. So, he is ready to whack me when I get out of line. I don't know of any kid who loved that kind of attention.
The upside is you get to mock your enemies. All that whacking pays off when you enemies get to see you sitting next to the Big Man Upstairs. But I hope he doesn't embarrass you by whacking you in front of them, but I bet he will.
My head gets anointed. My cup overflows. All well and good, but could you just stop whacking me all the time.
Goodness and love will follow me. They say David wrote this. Not so much in his life.
Dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Is there any place I can be slightly out of his reach or sit next to someone he is more keen to whack?
Yet another comforting text that only has meaning if you are a believer. There is nothing you can take out of this except maybe look for a different god who isn't pissed all the time. I am getting worried, I might not be able to find some text that could be real useful divine instruction. Some theist will probably bring just the right one to my attention. I am still a tad dopey from the pain killers so perhaps when my head clears.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
I am a lot like you ex-minister. I can not think of a single quote from the bible, that has ever stuck in my mind nor given me any comfort, since leaving christianity ( and not too many before that).
To be fair, it has been years since I have touched a bible and do not know if I even still have a copy of one laying around. Kinda like your response in another thread, when you read the whole entire chapter and verses from some of the quotes that theists throw around. Then it begins to take on a whole new meaning.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I know, Harley, but sitting in the pews, week after week, month after month, year after year, shouldn't some just stick with you. Like stitch in time save 9. Feed a cold, starve a fever. We got thousands of years of christianity making its way into our culture and conscience and here you and I sit empty handed. I keeping thinking someone will come along and throw out dozens of quotes that I am just too drugged up to think of.
If none or few showup doesn't that show how useless this book is and how completely narrow and isolated its viewpoint is? Again they claim it is divine. That sure sounds quotable to me.
I know other religions are more quotable.
If you see buddha on the road, kill him.
What is the sound of one hand clapping
The farther you travel the less you know
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
My wife reminded me of a couple.
He who is without sin cast the first stone. That's a good one, but I believe that its the one where the jews brought in an adultress and ask if she be stoned. I am fairly sure it was a story added later by a monk who made it up and not in original text.
Another its the golden rule, but it didn't originate with jesus but rabbi hillei.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
The only one I can think of is:
Mark 12:31- "'Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
My view is people are the most important thing in the world, all else comes after, so this fits with that idea.
The OT especially disagrees with this by all of the murder death kill that the god orders. If you are to love other people as yourself, why then kill them, take the virgins and kill all the male children. Sort of goes against that idea.
Perhaps the Jesus character only meant other Jews. Since in the story of Greek woman (Syrophonician aka Canaanite) he rejects her until she guilt trips him, Mark 7:24-30 or Matt 15:21-28. He then tells her that her daughter is healed. Some see this as a test of her faith, I see it otherwise, as the Jesus discriminating against non-Jews.
Also when the 12 disciples are dispatched to the villages/cities of Judea, they are seeking Jews, not Gentiles.
Matt 10:5 - "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans."
So the Jesus character did not even follow the commandment he gave - just saying.
As with most Judeo-Christian ideas there is much in conflict. One wonders how the Love your neighbor idea can coexist with the god will toss all of those not in the book of life into the Lake of Fire in anyone's mental processes?
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Hard to add to what has already been said
Back to the Title of the OP ..
Proverbs 4:5-8 (CJB-Version) "Gain wisdom, gain insight .. Don't abandon Wisdom; then she will preserve you; love Wisdom, and she will protect you. The beginning of wisdom is: get wisdom! And along with all your getting, gain insight! Cherish her, and she will exalt you; embrace her, and she will bring you honor .. "
The only quote I've heard from religion that felt right and corresponded with my morals is the one about doing unto others.
Though I wasn't introduced to the concept by religion, I do agree with the concept.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
"To thine own self be true" was a big one for me. And I was always surprised how many different ways people took it-it's only 6 words.
But thru this lesson many more can be learned.
I remember it hitting me at it's simplest form when I was in my young teens. Do you remember liking a girl when you were a kid, but were afraid what others would think? Well there was this girl of mixed races black/latino/white. Looked like someone from the carribean I guess, but most referred to her as "the black girl" She was just madly in love with me for the longest time. Well, me coming from a southern family and an almost all white school where she was probably only one of three colored folks, I was afraid what others would think.
Everyone knew she liked me and I hinted to my buddies that she was pretty cute. One of my supposed pals started razzin' me about it and telling the others.
So, not being a man yet, I pussed out and ended up brushing her off-afraid of what the world thought. Later on I found out that same supposed pal of mine that started giving me shit about her, was doing his damndest to get his grubby paws on her.
As the school years passed and times changed she turned out to be one of the most sought after girls. I've seen her from time to time over the years now and she still looks like some island princess.
Probably one of the best lessons thru mistake I learned. It did me or no one else any real harm, but it's always been a good reminder and been applied to more meaningful things in my life.-especially atheism!! I had to be true to myself to leave faith and become an atheist. How ironic is that? The bible had to have a few lessons that make sense or only the dumbest of people would have bought it.
Too bad the whole thing contradicts itself. When I said thru this lesson many more can be learned- Don't trust no one that doesn't take their own advice.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
I never found one that is meaningful to me and I've just spent 15 minutes trying to find anything that is useful at all.
Finally found an amusing one.
Proverbs 26 isn't bad in general, but 26:11 is my winner for now.
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
There is far too much baggage attached to religious quotes, even the good advice has so much bad behind it I cringe when an atheists uses one. I find Shakspeare said it best, and others here agree since they quote part of the passage. I can laugh at theist who quote it thinking it was from the bible, it is not it is the wisdom that comes to us from Avon England. The full passage is what I find as great advice for life and human interaction. It is "Polonius' advice to Laertes" from the play "Hamlet".
There, -- my blessing with you!
And these few precepts in thy memory
See thou charactor, -- Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
The friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatched, unfledged comrade.
Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel; but being in,
Bear't that the opposed may be ware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice:
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not expressed in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not be false to any man.
** mod edit: fix format
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Interesting life lesson. I certainly could envision her as I was reading. Quite hot in my mind. But sorry the bible doesn't say this. In fact it says the opposite. The heart of man is evil continually. You must plead with god to save you from yourself. The last thing the bible would recommend is to know yourself. The only thing to do is reject what's inside you and trust Jesus.
You owe your life lesson to William Shakespeare, in his play Hamlet.
http://www.online-literature.com/shakespeare/hamlet/4/
I like Bill much better than Bible.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
Hi X
Hmmm? This is a hard one. I'll see if you can guess.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Odd ex-minister. That I spent an entire childhood in the Catholic Church and can not think of one single thing. But, I only flirted around with Buddhism for maybe eight or nine months at a maximum and several of those still stick with me :
Be of the world and not in the world.
Does the dog have Buddha nature
All things arise from emptiness and nothingness.
Before enlightenment,chop wood carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood carry water.
I could think of many more "koans" that have still stuck with me to this day. Even though I am not a buddhist nor consider myself one.
Even that whole thing about " mindfulness" has helped me get through a few situations.
Twenty years of christianity and nothing. A few months of buddhism and those memes caught on.
When it comes to the Golden Rule, I kinda agree with both Bob Spence. The Golden Rule should be:do NOT do unto others what you do NOT want done to you.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
You delightful rapskallion .. Please dont say you wont include a few
Hey Dana,
I'm sorry, it would never work. It's not you it's me.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Re:: Didnt know you were one of those types . . .
All I can say in reply is one word Jean. Repent!
the hebrew bible does have one of the best definitions of male i have ever heard, and only the king james version does it justice: "all those that pisseth against the wall."
most modern translations gloss it over and just say something like "all the men."
i'm with harley. the buddhist canons have given me much more than the bible ever did. i also like the famous sanskrit refrain of the chandogya upanishad, "tat tvam asi," rendered famously as "that thou art." originally it refers to the upanishadic doctrine of the identity of atman with brahman, but i take it as a neat reminder of the interconnectedness of all matter.
other helpful quotes:
"don't try."--epitaph on charles bukowski's tombstone. take it however you want.
"everything dead coming back to life hurts."--toni morrison, beloved. i have found that one to be true in millions of ways.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Yeah I knew it was Shakespeare. I was referring to it in your original post. Sorry, I didn't preview my edit since it was just chit-chat. Matthew 16:26 was supposed to be in there too. -What many christians claim to be the equivilent.
Not important but it's something like"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeit his soul". Not the same thing to me.
Years ago you could have convinced me it was the same thing. You don't have to be smart to be a christian.
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
Hello,
So by Hebrew Bible, do you speak of TaNak? I'm confused? Because the new testaement was in Koine Greek.
And what about the sections in the TaNaK that were in Aramaic, do they not count?
Please help me understand your mind, the mind or a ruthless evil communist.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
you got google, jean. fucking use it, you tard.
there is no mind.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I would just say HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO!!
Like my physics teacher told me the bible is like Harry Potter! ALL FICTION!!
The bible is MIDDLE EASTERN mythology!! It just takes some people longer to realize that!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
First of all, ex-minister...sure, there are lots of quotes from the Bible that have some level of charm:
"For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, virtue with knowledge , knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with devotion, devotion with mutual affection, mutual affection with love." (2 Pet 1:5, NAB; obviously, I don't go for the mention of "faith" and I feel free to use a non-religious interpretation of "devotion."()
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Phlp 4:8, NAB)
"Watch carefully then how you live, not as foolish persons, but as wise, making the most of every opportunity..." (Eph 5:15, NAB)
"When a man walks in integrity and justice, happy are his children after him!" (Prv 20:7, NAB)
Depending on how much God-talk you can/are willing to stomach, there are potentially many others. It's too bad that religion tries to sell everyone on the idea that every pronouncement in the Bible is a revelation from on high. Judicious use of certain verses, along with frequent use of the term "metaphor" and explicit rejection of the blatantly evil verses could actually turn the Bible into something useful, perhaps for children, as a cultural and/or ethical study.
Wanderer
I'm seriously hoping that this doesn't end up as a second posting of the same material.
First of all, ex-minister...sure, there are lots of quotes from the Bible that have some level of charm:
"For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, virtue with knowledge , knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with devotion, devotion with mutual affection, mutual affection with love." (2 Pet 1:5, NAB; obviously, I don't go for the mention of "faith" and I feel free to use a non-religious interpretation of "devotion."()
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Phlp 4:8, NAB)
"Watch carefully then how you live, not as foolish persons, but as wise, making the most of every opportunity..." (Eph 5:15, NAB)
"When a man walks in integrity and justice, happy are his children after him!" (Prv 20:7, NAB)
Depending on how much God-talk you can/are willing to stomach, there are potentially many others. It's too bad that religion tries to sell everyone on the idea that every pronouncement in the Bible is a revelation from on high. Judicious use of certain verses, along with frequent use of the term "metaphor" and explicit rejection of the blatantly evil verses could actually turn the Bible into something useful, perhaps for children, as a cultural and/or ethical study. I can't honestly say that my experience of these (or other) verses is "the same as before," but my experience is a positive one...at least sometimes.
Oh, and your reference to Shakespeare reminded me of a Gilligan's Island episode where the castaways performed a horrible rendition of Shakespeare for the Howells. There were some lines of that song that I never did understand. The parts I did understand were:
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
Do not forget, stay out of debt...
To thine own self be true."
Wanderer
To the mods: sorry about the two postings. I honestly thought that the first one did not go through at all. Obviously, I edited to some extent before hitting "Post comment" again.
Wanderer