Need help debunking some conspiracy theories
Offline While I know that this information has been discussed on here ( I just don't have time to search for it today). I have an irritating co-worker that is going on and on about 9/11 being
an inside job and the Colorado shootings being a government set-up so "they" can take our guns away. Now, the Colorado idea is so stupid that I won't even bother to touch that
one.
But, his assertion about 9/11 is simply this. He claims that until someone can explain to him how that "third" building fell without the use of implosive material, he has no respect for
them and that NO ONE has ever been able to explain that.
Normally he is a moron and I just ignore him, but when all this stuff came up about the Colorado shooting being a government job of some sort, I rolled my eyes and shook my head.
To which I had to hear : " Well, considering that you don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job, I would figure that you would have that reaction."
I know that simple common sense and some reasoning would simply tell you that 9/11 was not some sort of conspiracy within our own government (not a fan of the government but
c'mon). But, what are some good arguments to debunk all of this 9/11 inside job bullshit ? I would especially like to "explain" how the third building fell.
(Not that this idiot will probably listen, but it will give me great pleasure in screwing around with him, especially when so many of my co-workers give me the : "What if he is right ?" nonsense).
Can anyone give me some links or quick replies ? I know that there was one magazine like Popular Mechanics, that explained the whole thing and debunked it, but I can't remember
where.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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I don't know why my posting appeared so messed up in typed format. I typed it out the way I always type responses ? Hmm, maybe it's another conspiracy by the government
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7485331.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/nyregion/22wtccnd.html?pagewanted=all
"The institute’s findings were released on Thursday as part of a 915-page report resulting from the work of more than 50 federal investigators and a dozen contractors over three years."
Though conspiracy theorists never accept the official version.. so good luck.
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
This link has a lot of the info you might be looking for. Most conspiracy theories remind me of the arguments that theists use to create a god of the gaps argument. They say, well science/experts/you can't explain X, therefore this crazy belief must be true. As soon as you are able to provide an accurate explanation they will simply move to something else. It is impossible to convince a devoted conspiracy theorist that their conspiracy theory is absurd. At best, you can prevent others from buying into their bullshit.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Wow, the Colorado shootings a government set up? Haven't heard that one yet, this guy is deep into fantasy land. I think the people who claim that the purpose of Fast & Furious was to create public support for banning guns are a little paranoid, and I'm inclined to be a little sensitive about my gun rights. This guy is beyond hopeless, but hopefully if you are informed enough you can prevent his bullshit from spreading to the co-workers who find his arguments slightly plausible.
It's just a pain in the ass that these kinds of arguments are always made from a position of ignorance and hence, really easy to make up on the fly. While debunking them often requires specific technical knowledge, so unless you have significant experience in the field, you are unlikely to have the knowledge to debunk it without spending time researching. Since there aren't that many people who have significant experience in demolition, more often than not these fools go unchallenged. As soon as you explain how the third building fell he will probably pull out something else and say "well you can't explain this" which you probably won't be able to until you do yet another search and discover the new thing is bullshit too. I hate people who pronounce things as factual without doing at least a cursory google search first.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WZ1vV_c6Xg&feature=plcp
your thoughts?
From the link..
"Fear based mind control program" - This is the stuff conspiracy theorists love. And it's interesting because it does have a grain of truth. I do believe that modern western society is being herded like sheep into a fear-based culture. Anti-Terrorism has billions spent on it each year while a peppercorn of a percent of deaths are attributed to it (Obesity is the number one killer by thousands of percent more than terrorism), but gets far more media coverage than far greater killers.
Fox, the Daily Mail and other partisan news and media companies contribute to the scaremongering.
But it does not indicate conspiracy by some shadowy sect of Wealthy Businessmen and Politicians as part of some Illuminati secret society. The corruption of politicians and big business is in plain site (Look at Monsanto's despicable destruction of small business competition, and the politicians who have direct links to that corporation who are now, or were, in positions of legislative power regarding food standards). And this supposed sect (if it existed) does not need to fly planes into buildings, blow them up in other ways, or stage mass killings and assassinations - our society seems to do these things just fine by itself.
We like being scared... that's why zombie movies are popular. Doesn't mean Zombies are real.
Yep, apparently he is not the only one either. He sent this link out to a bunch of people : (I have never heard of Natural News )
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_james_holmes_shooting_false_flag.html
Apparently, their are some conspiracy nuts out there that believe the whole Colorado shooting were all part of a conspiracy.
Where do these people get these ideas ?
Apparently they believe this has something to do with the UN Small Arms Treaty.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Thanks for all the info everyone. It's a good thing it was a short work day and I got home early. I'll have time to do some reading and have one REALLY pissed off conspiracy theorist for tomorrow's agenda ! (He gets HIGHLY pissed off when his conspiracy stuff is challenged).
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I've never understood the crazy conspiracy theories, especially 911 ones. I hope that you help some of your co-workers think more critically about this, as this conspiracy lover seems unlikely to change his assertions.
Good luck!
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
I am still reeling from the fact that there is some sort of "newspaper" out there that actually believes the shootings in Colorado were carefully staged by the FBI to take people's guns away.
But this dude buys it hook line and sinker.
As I stated above, normally I can just ignore him, but this one was the straw that broke the camel's back. That and all of the people around me that say : " Well you never know, are you going to argue that he might not be on to something ?"
No wonder humanity is having such a difficult time shaking the god meme. I mean, everyone, including me, is subject to a whole host of irrationalities, but this just takes the cake.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I have to agree GodsUseForAMosquito
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
report on the collapse of WTC Building 7 that I have read.
http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=861610
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I never found interest in conspiracy theories. Almost every one of them requires between hundreds and thousands of people working in perfect harmony to pull off, with absolutely none of them ever going to the public with evidence. That just doesn't happen.
I guarantee there'll be people denying we made it to the moon even when China takes pics of the US flag up there in a few years. Hell, they'll be doing it when you can see a city on the moon with the naked eye.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Yeah. I agree with that because the Flat Earth Society exists.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
The conspiracy theorist got real pissed off and declared all of my facts to be government issued bullshit that "they" wanted us to believe.
But at least it kept him shut up for the rest of the day.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
That doesn't even make sense as a conspiracy theory. There are massacres in the US all the time. Why would one more make a difference?
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Yup.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/08/moon_flags_apollo_hoax_arizona_state.php
This person just wants his little paranoid delusions to be true. How irritating.
What do they want? Seriously ridiculous.
Atleast it's not as bad as the Flat Earth Society, which not only ignores all the math and science that says the Earth HAS to be a sphere, also pretends that photos of a spherical earth are all edited.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
I hadn't even thought of that. Guess conspiracy theorists do not really need any rhyme or reason to come up with this stuff.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Concerning a government perpetrating a secretly engineered "terror attack" in order to further it's own political interests here is an historical example from WW2 which probably served as a template that allows modern day conspiracy theorists a thin veneer of legitimacy....
www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/reichstagfire.htm
If the Secret Service building is kitty-corner to the World Trade Center, literally US Secret Service "World Trade Center Building 7". Then why would you be surprised if you saw a Secret Service agent roaming through one of the Twin Towers before the incident ? Hmmm ?
I'm really confused as to what you are saying here.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
ThunderJones ..
If you dont know by now I joke a lot.
Well I have noticed that from you, but that post in particular seemed plainly unexplained to the point it's hard to tell it is a joke (over the internet).
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker