<- 3 wine glasses in.  I love this guy.  He's a cool dude, and he speared the take Pluto's planet status away from it. 

Because they compartmentalize and doublethink past their scientific skills on issues of religion. Suspending critical thinking for anything over everything else is trouble.

We deal with a predominant culture of religious people everyday and it has not stopped us one bit.

You have just made some baseless assertions, strawman arguments and argument from incredulity fallacy. You do know about those right ?

Talk about making a huge giant illogical leap, albeit a very obtuse one as well.

A lot of people call it a "god delusion" with good reason, judging by your posts.

Actually yes, lets start with one of you answering my question. Point out one time that existence from non-existence has been observed in a lab. Miracles from God have been observes, millions of times. You can choose not to believe it, that's your opinion, but you can not deny that the claims have been made. Keep it simple, have you ever actually seen existence come forth from non-existence? If you can point out a real example of this, then we have something to talk about, but without an example of it actually happening here in reality, I have millions of possible proofs of my beliefs, and I only need one to be true, but you have nothing. Not even one single POSSIBLE example. We Christians have actually seen our beliefs work, you obviously have never seen something poof into existence.

I am well aware that you all have never admitted that you believe something came from nothing, I would not admit something that stupid either. But lets skip the part where you keep pointing out this energy and that anti-matter and I keep saying "where did that come from?". Going back to before there was anything in existence, how did something come from that? Without using any ingredients, or outside influence, explain to me where energy and matter came from. You don't want to admit it because its so incredibly stupid, but you can't deny the existence of a creator without saying that the universe formed itself, and at some point some had to have come from nothing. If I am wrong, ok my bad, simply explain how anything exist, and how it has always existed. I am not debated the origin of the universe, but the origin of existence.

As far as offering miracles that can not be disputed, I personally have experienced several undeniable miracles. I know your knee jerk reaction will be to call me a liar, but it happened all the same. I was once stuck outside with my mother and six brothers and sisters in the middle of a tornado with no protection of any kind, so we prayed. Not only were we left without a scratch on us, but the entire block we were on did not have so much as a branch broke off a tree. The rest of the city was in shambles. Call me a liar if it helps you sleep at night, its still true either way. My whole family can attest to it, and anyone that was in Jefferson city Mo. would certainly remember that block in perfect order while the rest of the city was destroyed.

Can you even pretend to have seen your beliefs come to pass right in front of you? Ever seen an explosion leave something in perfect order to support life? Didn't think so. Also when have you ever heard of a Buddhist or a Hindu claim to have seen a miracle? Do you even know what they believe? It would make no sense for them to even pretend to have seen a miracle. Also I can not remember ever hearing or reading about a Muslim claiming to have witnessed a miracle, not saying they never have, just saying I never heard of it.

If you claim that your beliefs are proven fact, you are either a liar, or easily manipulated. Even I don't claim God to be proven fact. Although I absolutely claim that intelligent design is fact. It is observed every single day in the world.

ps, i do think your beliefs are stupid, but I don't mean to call you stupid. I am sure your not stupid at all so please don't take it that way.

Oh dear.

Yes, actually, physicists have proved that quantum events are occurring all around us where particles pop into existence from nothing, then interact with their anti-particle and blip back into nothing again. This has been proven because it has been shown that 'empty' vacuum space has non-zero temperature. This is established physics, and any theistic physicist who supports the standard model will back this up.

So something can come from nothing, and it's happening around you all the time. 

Now please prove God creates something from nothing.

Show me non-existence so we can put it in a lab and see if existence can come out of it.

We'll skip why your family was spared, but a 5 year old little girl was not spared, but was instead brutally raped and strangled.  I'm certain you can justify her torturous death somehow.  (Search for news articles - November 2009, North Carolina - there has been at least one trial as well, so you can get transcripts if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of how god/s/dess tortures little girls.)

Instead, explain to me how the giraffe's laryngeal nerve is intelligent design?  I'll even give you some facts: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2010/08/30/dawkins-gets-inside-the-giraffes-neck/

If you walk upright, explain how the human back is an intelligent design.

Your prostate gland.  (Thank god/s/dess that I don't have one.)

This is a rational article on the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/magazine/20WWLN.html

If you have problems reading or viewing any of this, let me know, I'll be happy to repost any article plus any others I can find.

Being dishonest about what? I admit you did not actually say you believe something came from nothing, because YOU are dishonest about what you believe.

Still the same subject, explain what you believe. Who is trying to change the subject? Are you sure you even read my post before replying to it?

I am pretty sure I said God protected seven children (myself included) who were outside with no cove as a tornado actually passed over their block, and that nothing was out of place anywhere on the block. That is impossible by human standards any way you look at it.

I never claimed that the Christian God's existence is a proven fact, if I did, quote me. Intelligent design is as obvious as gravity or inertia. It is one of those things that should not really require a lot of evidence to a thinking mind. Can you name a complex system that came into being without outside influence? I mean one that is proven to have come into existence without aid or any kind of help, just random chance? Good luck with that. Read my first post, this is the same question I have been asking the whole time. Please respond with an answer for a change. You really are doing your side more harm than good harleysportster.

You did not really just say that? Wow. Try to read slowly please, that did not really happen! Show me some kind of documentation on that lab experiment. Let me guess, it has conveniently never been recorded. So they recorded a temperature in what was supposed to be empty space... and from there concluded that something must have popped into existence? Why wouldn't they assume that the empty space was contaminated from the start? That seems like such common sense I am having a hard time believing that educated people really came to that conclusion, I really don't believe you at all.

On the other hand, existence is proof of a creator. Would you believe me if I said I have no parents? Literally just popped into existence as a newborn baby. Also my watch, was not built by any human being, it started out as a sun dial that exploded and landed on my wrist as a timex. Sounds pretty stupid when you put it like that, but its science if you say it about the whole universe. (please note that phrase was dripping with sarcasm)

Tornado's come into existence without any outside influence? No clouds or water or air or anything? I had no idea, I guess you win.

And no a meteorologist could not explain how an entire city block comes out a tornado without a scratch. I didn't say the tornado left a thing or two behind, I said it affected nothing, not even the leaves. Not even the seven small children exposed to the elements.

What do you think tornadoes are made of? No outside influence as in no god or intelligent designer.

Have you asked one? Perhaps you ought to consult the great google before making such bold claims. Generally, damage patterns like you describe are due to a multiple vortex tornado. If you are interested in reality, you might want to look at them a bit before declaring "miracle!" like some caveman seeing rain for the first time. 

http://www.cswr.org/publications/2002Jun-MultipleVortexStructureofaTor.pdf

I'm rather confident that the tornado's activity was monitored by the nation weather service and I am quite certain that many meteorologists examined the data from the very same tornado you saw. The fact is that such damage patterns are not extremely rare and the causes are understood, did you even read the link? 

If you have any evidence that the tornado you saw was somehow different, I would like to see it, and I'm sure many meteorologists would as well since they are starting to run out of things they can't explain. Scientists love a good puzzle. 

Yes I know how tornadoes are formed, no god required and they are complex, my point exactly- something complex that is formed without an intelligent designer. Clouds also form, on their own, no god required.  So how is any of this evidence that for the world to be created there must have been a god? Tornado- no god, clouds- no god, hurricane- no god therefore, the world must have been created by god... Even you must see that line of reasoning makes no sense. 

Yep, the logical fallacies and the naked assertions are piling up.

Strawman fallacy

False Equivalency fallacy

The workings of a tornado have nothing at all to do with evolution.

Why do you have contempt for 'secular' science? Science is what allows us to communicate like this over the internet. use of science allows you to travel the world, use your mobile phone, put men on the moon, preserve food for long periods, safely remove your appendix - are these not useful things? Why are you so contemptuous of it? Would you prefer to live with the Amish?

But in order to work, science needs to be evidence-based. that means, being able to obtain similar, repeatable results in an experiment. Also, that there are no examples that prove the experiment to be false.

This is called the scientific method. 

Now your experience with the tornado is undoubtedly true; none of us have any reason not to believe it. However, your belief that God saved you is not evidence based. It's a leap of faith.

I have to things I'd like you to consider.

1) non-god-based explanation: The tornado became a funnel cloud while it passed over - a funnel cloud is similar to a tornado, but doesn't touch the earth, and doesn't drag things up from the earth. still looks like a tornado though. This is something that could easily happen. God is not required to turn tornadoes into funnel clouds. I'm not saying that's what really happened,but it's a possibility that does not require god to be involved

2) here's a thought experiment: imagine that one of your group of children praying while the tornado approached happened to be a little muslim. You all pray to god, and she's fervently praying to Allah. The tornado mysteriously doesn't cause you or your surroundings any damage as it passes over. Praise God! But wait a minute.. the little girl prayed to Allah - perhaps Allah was the one that saved you. Would you believe her that it was actually Allah that saved you all? if you don't accept her reasoning, why should we accept your explanation? Can you see why we must treat your argument based on personal experience with scepticism?

Finally, you keep using this 'pop into existence from nothing' scoffing, but I have shown you evidence for things that really do pop into existence from nothing. Why do you continue to use this as if it's idiocy to believe such things? Do you have some sort of rebuttal to the evidence I provided? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the links I provided about spontaneous existence.

Your definitely wrong here. Your creating an argument from incredulity fallacy. The universe is 99% inhospitable to human life, and the Earth itself is inhospitable to human life for most of the planet. The only reason that people are able to live longer is because of science, technology, and medicine. Not to mention creature comforts.

So if there was a creator, it/he/she/ it certainly did not do a very good job of being "intelligent" for human life.

But, even if I were to believe that your assertion was correct, it still does not prove that there is a god, albeit a biblical one.

Mine.

So you can't show me non-existence? How do we know whether or not existence can come from non-existence if we don't even know what non-existence is?

I know amp probably isn't coming back, but you never know.

Obviously, it happened because > 50% of the blocks population fellated the right god. Or priest. Or whatever.