Reason Together
Offline Atheism as any other movement aspires to a goal. Unless mistaken, the goal is to produce a peaceful world, as it seems the main complaint is the mess that the world is in is caused by religions through past millennium, which I largely agree.
I start this thread to form a discussion on/in how Atheism's ideas will reconstruct the worlds view of things and produce the desired peace desired. The idea seems to be that the removal of the belief in a God or Gods or religion as is, will produce this result.
What is your idea? What is your proposal? How do you say it can be accomplished? What do you think.
I will stay out of the conversation as not to be a hindrance to the discussion. So, please state you personal opinions.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
- Login to post comments
we don't need more atheism, we need more rational and critical thinking. Those tend to lead to atheism, but it isn't the atheism that causes it.
Yeah ....what she said.
Old, no one when born sets out thinking "hey I want to live a life in fear of others". But in evolution those same babies want resources. So once you skip all the bullshit about politics and religion life is litterally about the ability to get resources. Conflict comes about in in group out group think. Once one group thinks that they have dominance, the "peace" isnt based on cooperation, but projectionism.
Atheism is just a position, not a worldview. If you knew a damned thing about my beefs with Beyond Saving who is also an atheist you'd know that the concept of "worldview" is bullshit.
All you are trying to do here is attempt a fallacy. You want to start an infight between us so that you can go "AH HA you have nothing so therefore Jesus is real"
The fact is regardless of labels humans are born alone and die alone and are only clones to the extent of the environment they are subject to., but social norms have always been broken and challeged otherwise our species never would have left the caves.
So your attempt to say "You claim to have the answers, then poney up with them"
My personal take on life is that it is a crap shoot. I've been lucky so far, others have not been so lucky, but even the successful and powerful, via religion or politics, business or celebrity, everyone dies eventually.
So why is peace so hard? Because of dogmatism and idology. Sell a utopia, sell a script, and you can lead humanity off a cliff and into oblivion.
So how can humans collectively move forward without making peace a "my way or the highway" mentality based on projectionism?
My best guess is that when we have competing claims, and in religion and politics, we can only agree to allow for voices and protecting dissent. Beyond that, the common ground is when we put our cliams in a lab and test them without fear of where the evidence leads.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
If one operates from a position that people have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then dogmatism introduces a challenge to apply these values to the entirety of a society. Dogmatism creates a path for a hierarchical shift in these values. For example when discrediting a persons prophet is allowed to supersede a persons right to life. We can see the bias introduced, ethical medians shift and not by an act of reason, but one of pride.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
I need to over-ride the word "discussion". That's not what was really on the mind. 1-Rather then a discussion it was meant to form an idea of the goal of Atheism. At this time I have no understanding of why there is an Atheist movement. I was an Atheist and I don't see why I would join an Atheist movement group, but there again I'm not a groupee.
No---Not I will try to stay out of the conversation as not to be a hindrance. That caused it to go south.
It should have been - I won't participate as not to influence the input (that was the intent) for fear of my criticism. The Idea was to keep the purity of the posting. Forums are for discussion, conversation and debate so I was lead in that direction.. I didn't intend this to be about any of that, but "your" personal ideas. I should have taken more time and thought to the OP. This is not about creating conflict---there's already enough of those.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Amongst the mountains of dogmatism the river of reason runs togther. What goal does the river have?
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
Atheism doesn't have a goal nor is there any singular defined atheist movement. There are groups of atheists that form a variety of groups and have a variety of different goals and to some of those groups being atheist is an important identifying feature. However, there is nothing inherent in being an atheist that would necessarily draw one to be part of any group.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
It is rare that I agree with you, but this most certainly i can and do.
Old Seer simply started this post to try to paint us as not having a compass, trying to emply that a compass has to be a movement and not an individual thing.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I believe the one common goal is the freedom to believe what we believe with out being alienated or discriminated against. On the other hand, I've met atheists who don't give a fuck what any one else or their opinion.
In a world without belief in God, "Atheism" means nothing. So I can't answer "How atheism's ideas will reconstruct the worlds view."
I just think humanity will be better off without religious influence.
Edit: I don't want to speak for everyone, but I have never considered "Atheism" a movement.