Just stumbled across this thread and wow, just wow.

Please tell me, why are all atheists so irrational?

Your hatred is disturbing and highly revealing of your psychological illnesses; but your irrational and illogical beliefs and ideas are just so incredibly bad.

The very name of this site is an insult to intelligence. Rational response? You're kidding right?  Since when does atheism support rationality?

Given that under atheism rationality is nothing but electrochemical movement in a couple of pounds of meat.

Yet none of you ever sees how self-evident this is.  Why?

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning; just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning."

"If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes...it cuts its own throat."
"Unless thought is valid we have no reason to believe in the real universe."
"A universe whose only claim to be believed in rests on the validity of inference must not start telling us the inference is invalid..."

"The theory that thought is merely a movement in the brain is, in my opinion, nonsense; for if so, that theory itself would be merely a movement, an event among atoms, which may have speed and direction but of which it would be meaningless to use the words 'true' or 'false'".

If he is honest, says Lewis, the materialist will have to admit that his own ideas are merely the "epiphenomenon which accompanies chemical or electrical events in a cortex which is itself the by-product of a blind evolutionary process. If all thoughts are merely the products of non-rational causes, this includes the materialist’s own thoughts. In other words, there is no reason according to materialism for materialism itself to be regarded as true."

Until you finally open your deeply closed minds and figure this out, you will remain in your utterly futile, inane worldview. One that believes - obligatorily - that nothing created everything, that you yourselves are futile accidents moving to oblivion with zero raison d'être.  An idea that has no foundations in reason or logic - obvious since in your view reason and logic are nothing but the movement of atoms and have no real existence - whether you like it or not that is the only conclusion possible in atheism.

Your worldview has no meaning - including the purely arbitrary pseudo-meaning that the movement of atoms in your brain fools you into thinking you give it.

This of course necessarily means that you yourselves are meaningless as well.

Morals are a mere illusion (except when someone offends you).

In Cricks famous words, "The Astonishing Hypothesis is that "You," your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing. (p. 3) -Francis Crick (1994) The Astonishing Hypothesis:

So why should anyone care what your pacts of neurons are doing? They certainly cannot be assigned values of true or false - so why the hell are you even here debating?!

Quite obviously there are other personal subjective reasons than anything remotely close to "rational" -which, by your own ideas, necessarily means you are not.

Atheism is as bad as Islam for stupidity passing as knowledge. You're so proud of yourselves for thinking yourselves "free thinkers" - which again, under atheism, isn't even possible, for how does the movement of atoms - determined only by the laws of physics and chemistry, never you, in 2 pounds of meat constitute free undetermined thought? It does not and cannot.

Harris is now happily foolishly claiming that free will doesn't exist and yet believes he wrote this claim freely!!

You guys are unreal.

Proof of God?

Sure: for 1 proof - go look at shCherbak's Arithmetical Origin of the Genetic Code.

It is now clearly impossible that nature alone could have made DNA - an intelligence was and is required and only a supreme intelligence can explain it.

You lose.

Oh and while I'm here, I agree with you on one point - we should remove all those nasty laws and such that religion "imposes" upon you against your will.

So here's where that must begin:

1st we will force the big chiefs to remove all imposition of weekends upon all atheists.

Saturday = Sabbath and Sunday = Lord's day.  That must be so troubling to you to have to take days off from work. So now you shall all work 7 days/week. No more religious holidays imposed upon you.

2md we will remove all other religious holidays f4rom your rights - why should you poor atheist be forced to take Xmas holidays, Easter and such, off for vacation time that you really don't need or want since this is all religious stuff that you've thus far has little or no choice on - poor you.

3rd we will remove all Judeo/Christian oriented values from your poor persecuted atheist lives - say we stat with the right to life, then on to the right to be free - why that anyway? Who said anyone should be free? 

Then on to the right to private property - who started that foolish concept?

Or the right to self-determination - where's that come from?

Well I could go on and on and that one point but you get the idea - we'll get to it as soon as possible so you poor oppressed atheist brats can work 365 days then on to the other impositions of rights etc.

Oh and while some of you  crappy thinkers are looking for rebuttals in your "meat" I must mention this:

"Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior." -Vox Day

Now that I've got you all insecure, nervous and really angry, go running to your high priests Dawkins, Harris, et al. and your local web philosopher ignoramus know-nothings and cry unto these pathetic little gods for help.

 

Your fallacious appeal to consequence/complexity/authority/ignorance does not constitute a clear case for the existence of an undefined supernatural being ..

Atheists wont kidnap your women or kids. And all of us here have family members and or friends and co workers to some degree that have some sort of god belief.

The perpetual shifting in god concepts by jefferyalex is devilishly clever as it's much harder to hit a constantly moving target.

Just stumbled across this thread and wow, just wow.

Your hatred is disturbing and highly revealing of your psychological illnesses; but your irrational and illogical beliefs and ideas are just so incredibly bad.

Given that under atheism rationality is nothing but electrochemical movement in a couple of pounds of meat.

Yet none of you ever sees how self-evident this is.  Why?

;Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning; just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

"If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes...it cuts its own throat."
"Unless thought is valid we have no reason to believe in the real universe."
"A universe whose only claim to be believed in rests on the validity of inference must not start telling us the inference is invalid..."

Until you finally open your deeply closed minds and figure this out, you will remain in your utterly futile, inane worldview. One that believes - obligatorily - that nothing created everything, that you yourselves are futile accidents moving to oblivion with zero raison d'être.  An idea that has no foundations in reason or logic - obvious since in your view reason and logic are nothing but the movement of atoms and have no real existence - whether you like it or not that is the only conclusion possible in atheism.

Your worldview has no meaning - including the purely arbitrary pseudo-meaning that the movement of atoms in your brain fools you into thinking you give it.

This of course necessarily means that you yourselves are meaningless as well.

Morals are a mere illusion (except when someone offends you).

In Cricks famous words, "The Astonishing Hypothesis is that "You," your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing. (p. 3) -Francis Crick (1994) The Astonishing Hypothesis:

So why should anyone care what your pacts of neurons are doing? They certainly cannot be assigned values of true or false - so why the hell are you even here debating?!

Atheism is as bad as Islam for stupidity passing as knowledge.

You're so proud of yourselves for thinking yourselves "free thinkers" - which again, under atheism, isn't even possible, for how does the movement of atoms - determined only by the laws of physics and chemistry, never you, in 2 pounds of meat constitute free undetermined thought? It does not and cannot.

Harris is now happily foolishly claiming that free will doesn't exist and yet believes he wrote this claim freely!!

You guys are unreal.

Proof of God?

Sure: for 1 proof - go look at shCherbak's Arithmetical Origin of the Genetic Code.

It is now clearly impossible that nature alone could have made DNA - an intelligence was and is required and only a supreme intelligence can explain it.

You lose.

So here's where that must begin:

1st we will force the big chiefs to remove all imposition of weekends upon all atheists.

Saturday = Sabbath and Sunday = Lord's day.  That must be so troubling to you to have to take days off from work. So now you shall all work 7 days/week. No more religious holidays imposed upon you.

2md we will remove all other religious holidays f4rom your rights - why should you poor atheist be forced to take Xmas holidays, Easter and such, off for vacation time that you really don't need or want since this is all religious stuff that you've thus far has little or no choice on - poor you.

3rd we will remove all Judeo/Christian oriented values from your poor persecuted atheist lives - say we stat with the right to life,

then on to the right to be free - why that anyway? Who said anyone should be free? 

Then on to the right to private property - who started that foolish concept?

Or the right to self-determination - where's that come from?

Eloise wrote:

Taliesyn wrote:

"The theory that thought is merely a movement in the brain is, in my opinion, nonsense; for if so, that theory itself would be merely a movement, an event among atoms, which may have speed and direction but of which it would be meaningless to use the words 'true' or 'false'".

If he is honest, says Lewis, the materialist will have to admit that his own ideas are merely the "epiphenomenon which accompanies chemical or electrical events in a cortex which is itself the by-product of a blind evolutionary process. If all thoughts are merely the products of non-rational causes, this includes the materialist’s own thoughts. In other words, there is no reason according to materialism for materialism itself to be regarded as true."

Indeed. Though that does not preclude it being regarded for the purpose of finding its truthfulness. Testing it, as we do in science through experimental conditions to take it from the abstract imagining of our random 2 lbs of meat and put it at the mercy of the real world. The tractability of materialism is then revealed to us when our thoughts are either denied or supported by the results.

 

how 'bout that, el?  a shit-for-brains stumbles on prasanghika madhyamika, and dismisses it out of hand.

 

 

Hey Eloise, where have you been ?

Good to see you back and posting !

You know I favour Heraclitus, of course . Though I see it less as flow of the river and more as the illimitable molecular cohesion the very water itself.

 

You know I favour Heraclitus, of course . Though I see it less as flow of the river and more as the illimitable molecular cohesion the very water itself.

iwbiek wrote:

my own foggy memories of my days as a religion and classical studies double major tells me that creation through the logos (or the closely related sophia) is hardly unique either to heraclitus or the writer of john.

Everywhere one looks there is the Logos and the closer I look at it, the more elusive it seems. It certainly seems to be fundamental to ancient thought.

The first known Greek use of it seems to be Heraclitus (c535-c475 BCE), but other cultures have the same sort of idea.

For example, Ptah in ancient Egypt speaks things into existence and Thoth is also associated with the Logos.

We also have Philo for a Jewish Logos and the Platonists and Neo-Platonists have Hermes representing Thoth.

John, famously for the Christian Logos, but also possibly Luke.

See http://www.maat.sofiatopia.org/memphis.htm#a8 and http://vridar.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/what-did-lukes-eyewitnesses-see/

 

 

Eloise wrote:

You know I favour Heraclitus, of course . Though I see it less as flow of the river and more as the illimitable molecular cohesion the very water itself.

Eloise - welcome back. Good to see you again.

Question:

λóγος 

Heraclitus states, “All things come into being according to the Logos” (Frg. 1). In the book of John  “All things came into being through Him”, i.e. the Logos (1:3). Is this clear plagiarism by the gospel writer?