Brian37 wrote:

roseweeed wrote:

I wonder what it means, to a Christian, to "believe."

That term is sometimes used to suppose something might be true -- as with a question such as "Did the Raiders win?" and the reply "I believe so," in which one thinks they might know the answer but are uncertain.

But I think that's not how Christians would like to express their connection to God. Their common use of the term "believe" implies they judge the truth of God to be absolute. After all, Jesus didn't say that salvation could be found by hypothesizing his divinity, but by Believing in it -- capital B. 

I believe gravity, the force causing things to fall toward the Earth, to be beyond doubt and my actions validate the veracity of my belief -- i.e., I am careful not to walk off the edges of cliffs because I know the consequences will demonstrate, to my detriment, the truth of my belief  (at least on Earth!).

Christians, however, are never wiling to put their "belief" to the test. They don't pray for God to cushion their fall, and then step off the cliff -- because when it comes to falling, their belief in gravity is more certain than their imagination of prayer. They cover this inconsistency with the concept of faith, a one-size-fits-all shield against contradicition that, in fact, only further exposes their false concept of belief.

Belief for Christians seems to enjoy a special status as distinct from other beliefs -- a kind of exemption from actuality which allows one to hold the belief but never act upon its implications. Most Christians who profess to believe, do not Believe -- instead they imagine that if there were a God-centered universe, it would unfold in a certain fashion. And then they integrate that imagination with their reality and call it a belief. 

Ironically those who DO truly believe, the Jim Jones types or the ones who refuse medical treatment and rely on prayer instead, i.e., what one might call the true believers who put their beilefs to the test, are denigrated as being mentally ill by everyone -- including the imagineer Christians who would like to be true believers themselves but are shocked back into reality when they actually confront its consequences in the actions of others.

 

 

 

The more I read posts that focus on particular labels the more I feel the need to warn people that the bigger picture has nothing to do with one particular superstition, but the focus should be on WHY do humans invent myths and falsely believe them to be fact.

Why did the ancient Egyptians falsely believe the sun to be a god for 3,000 years? Why do Hindu's even today, falsely believe that multiple armed deities exist? Why do Muslims believe in a god named Allah? Why do new ager's claim that the universe itself is a thinking entity? Why do si fi woo'ers postulate "all this" being the result of a "simulation".

Why do all these bullshit superstitions persist in our species history? Because we are a pattern seeking species, and combined with that we are also an emotional species, and we tend to flock to things and or ideas that promote self(even if that pattern or idea is wrong, we still will promote it rather than ditch our own egos in order to find truth.

So to answer the question in the title of the thread "What is Christian belief"? It is a result of the same refusal to test and verify. The same emotional appeal of credulity and wishful thinking that causes morons to believe in the Loc Ness Monster.

Evolution's goal is not about getting facts right. Evolution only requires getting to the point of reproduction.

Go to, The Old Seer's Corner in the general Conversations forum. It might be helpful.

Then again--we have to understand the origin of the falsehoods. In ancient times they didn't know better because of little or no previous experience. Then also-there's many people making a living by keeping the superstitions active. But it's mainly due to ignorance of ancestors  that's been given to following generations.

Christians use faith and belief interchangeably and conveniently, as a kind of shell-game to mask contradictions in their theistic world view -- inconsistencies they would never tolerate in other aspects of their ordinary lives. For example, they rely on blind faith (unsupported by any credible evidence) to assert that human bodies are inhabited and survived after death by ghostly spirits, but they would not so much as cross the street were they no convinced by the credible evidence of their eyes that it was safe to do so.

Jesus' disciples were supposedly convinced of his divinity by his demonstration of miracles -- i.e., they were exempted from faith and given what appeared to be direct physical evidence of his supernatural powers. Absent the ability to hang out with Jesus and witness his feats, to evaluate his claims up-close, subsequent followers are relegated to faith, which is no more than a suspension of disbelief in order to span significant gaps in the believability of stories and mythologies they wish to be true. To say that faith explains Christian belief is absurd -- they are the same thing, and neither one explains the other.

Christians, however, are never wiling to put their "belief" to the test. They don't pray for God to cushion their fall, and then step off the cliff -- because when it comes to falling, their belief in gravity is more certain than their imagination of prayer. They cover this inconsistency with the concept of faith, a one-size-fits-all shield against contradicition that, in fact, only further exposes their false concept of belief.

Most Christians who profess to believe, do not Believe -- instead they imagine that if there were a God-centered universe, it would unfold in a certain fashion. And then they integrate that imagination with their reality and call it a belief.

the Jim Jones types or the ones who refuse medical treatment and rely on prayer instead

Brian37 wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

roseweeed wrote:

I wonder what it means, to a Christian, to "believe."

That term is sometimes used to suppose something might be true -- as with a question such as "Did the Raiders win?" and the reply "I believe so," in which one thinks they might know the answer but are uncertain.

But I think that's not how Christians would like to express their connection to God. Their common use of the term "believe" implies they judge the truth of God to be absolute. After all, Jesus didn't say that salvation could be found by hypothesizing his divinity, but by Believing in it -- capital B. 

I believe gravity, the force causing things to fall toward the Earth, to be beyond doubt and my actions validate the veracity of my belief -- i.e., I am careful not to walk off the edges of cliffs because I know the consequences will demonstrate, to my detriment, the truth of my belief  (at least on Earth!).

Christians, however, are never wiling to put their "belief" to the test. They don't pray for God to cushion their fall, and then step off the cliff -- because when it comes to falling, their belief in gravity is more certain than their imagination of prayer. They cover this inconsistency with the concept of faith, a one-size-fits-all shield against contradicition that, in fact, only further exposes their false concept of belief.

Belief for Christians seems to enjoy a special status as distinct from other beliefs -- a kind of exemption from actuality which allows one to hold the belief but never act upon its implications. Most Christians who profess to believe, do not Believe -- instead they imagine that if there were a God-centered universe, it would unfold in a certain fashion. And then they integrate that imagination with their reality and call it a belief. 

Ironically those who DO truly believe, the Jim Jones types or the ones who refuse medical treatment and rely on prayer instead, i.e., what one might call the true believers who put their beilefs to the test, are denigrated as being mentally ill by everyone -- including the imagineer Christians who would like to be true believers themselves but are shocked back into reality when they actually confront its consequences in the actions of others.

 

 

 

The more I read posts that focus on particular labels the more I feel the need to warn people that the bigger picture has nothing to do with one particular superstition, but the focus should be on WHY do humans invent myths and falsely believe them to be fact.

Why did the ancient Egyptians falsely believe the sun to be a god for 3,000 years? Why do Hindu's even today, falsely believe that multiple armed deities exist? Why do Muslims believe in a god named Allah? Why do new ager's claim that the universe itself is a thinking entity? Why do si fi woo'ers postulate "all this" being the result of a "simulation".

Why do all these bullshit superstitions persist in our species history? Because we are a pattern seeking species, and combined with that we are also an emotional species, and we tend to flock to things and or ideas that promote self(even if that pattern or idea is wrong, we still will promote it rather than ditch our own egos in order to find truth.

So to answer the question in the title of the thread "What is Christian belief"? It is a result of the same refusal to test and verify. The same emotional appeal of credulity and wishful thinking that causes morons to believe in the Loc Ness Monster.

Evolution's goal is not about getting facts right. Evolution only requires getting to the point of reproduction.

Go to, The Old Seer's Corner in the general Conversations forum. It might be helpful.

Then again--we have to understand the origin of the falsehoods. In ancient times they didn't know better because of little or no previous experience. Then also-there's many people making a living by keeping the superstitions active. But it's mainly due to ignorance of ancestors  that's been given to following generations.

You must think most people here are stupid and dense. All this post means is "You don't understand".

Problem is you are dealing with people who DO understand.

You are a believer and we do not make the distinction between old superstition or new superstition.

If you want to argue "ancestors", I hate to burst your delusional bubble, but OUR ancestors go further back than your personal pet superstition.

If the truth lies in "the first" then bow to the polytheist prior to your monotheism. Bow to the animal gods of the French caves, that existed long before your magic baby crap.

Now, the only way you could make this work is to prove that Jesus had a Delorean and Micheal J Fox was the Satan that planted all these falsehoods using bananas and beer cans. Good luck with that.

 

I am not a theist, deist, but can be taken as an atheist from time to time. I'm not a Christian either because I choose not to be. Get your facts straight, Please. And could you try to be A bit human once in a while.  You can get off the magic idea as I don't belong to any religion in practice today. Make a choice---you evolved with the animal and the human,, the good and the bad. You didn't know that till now did you. See if you can get around that. No-I don't think anyone is stupid.

You're making assumptions from a basis of you own imagination.    

Brian37 wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

roseweeed wrote:

I wonder what it means, to a Christian, to "believe."

That term is sometimes used to suppose something might be true -- as with a question such as "Did the Raiders win?" and the reply "I believe so," in which one thinks they might know the answer but are uncertain.

But I think that's not how Christians would like to express their connection to God. Their common use of the term "believe" implies they judge the truth of God to be absolute. After all, Jesus didn't say that salvation could be found by hypothesizing his divinity, but by Believing in it -- capital B. 

I believe gravity, the force causing things to fall toward the Earth, to be beyond doubt and my actions validate the veracity of my belief -- i.e., I am careful not to walk off the edges of cliffs because I know the consequences will demonstrate, to my detriment, the truth of my belief  (at least on Earth!).

Christians, however, are never wiling to put their "belief" to the test. They don't pray for God to cushion their fall, and then step off the cliff -- because when it comes to falling, their belief in gravity is more certain than their imagination of prayer. They cover this inconsistency with the concept of faith, a one-size-fits-all shield against contradicition that, in fact, only further exposes their false concept of belief.

Belief for Christians seems to enjoy a special status as distinct from other beliefs -- a kind of exemption from actuality which allows one to hold the belief but never act upon its implications. Most Christians who profess to believe, do not Believe -- instead they imagine that if there were a God-centered universe, it would unfold in a certain fashion. And then they integrate that imagination with their reality and call it a belief. 

Ironically those who DO truly believe, the Jim Jones types or the ones who refuse medical treatment and rely on prayer instead, i.e., what one might call the true believers who put their beilefs to the test, are denigrated as being mentally ill by everyone -- including the imagineer Christians who would like to be true believers themselves but are shocked back into reality when they actually confront its consequences in the actions of others.

 

 

 

The more I read posts that focus on particular labels the more I feel the need to warn people that the bigger picture has nothing to do with one particular superstition, but the focus should be on WHY do humans invent myths and falsely believe them to be fact.

Why did the ancient Egyptians falsely believe the sun to be a god for 3,000 years? Why do Hindu's even today, falsely believe that multiple armed deities exist? Why do Muslims believe in a god named Allah? Why do new ager's claim that the universe itself is a thinking entity? Why do si fi woo'ers postulate "all this" being the result of a "simulation".

Why do all these bullshit superstitions persist in our species history? Because we are a pattern seeking species, and combined with that we are also an emotional species, and we tend to flock to things and or ideas that promote self(even if that pattern or idea is wrong, we still will promote it rather than ditch our own egos in order to find truth.

So to answer the question in the title of the thread "What is Christian belief"? It is a result of the same refusal to test and verify. The same emotional appeal of credulity and wishful thinking that causes morons to believe in the Loc Ness Monster.

Evolution's goal is not about getting facts right. Evolution only requires getting to the point of reproduction.

Go to, The Old Seer's Corner in the general Conversations forum. It might be helpful.

Then again--we have to understand the origin of the falsehoods. In ancient times they didn't know better because of little or no previous experience. Then also-there's many people making a living by keeping the superstitions active. But it's mainly due to ignorance of ancestors  that's been given to following generations.

You must think most people here are stupid and dense. All this post means is "You don't understand".

Problem is you are dealing with people who DO understand.

You are a believer and we do not make the distinction between old superstition or new superstition.

If you want to argue "ancestors", I hate to burst your delusional bubble, but OUR ancestors go further back than your personal pet superstition.

If the truth lies in "the first" then bow to the polytheist prior to your monotheism. Bow to the animal gods of the French caves, that existed long before your magic baby crap.

Now, the only way you could make this work is to prove that Jesus had a Delorean and Micheal J Fox was the Satan that planted all these falsehoods using bananas and beer cans. Good luck with that.

 

I am not a theist, deist, but can be taken as an atheist from time to time. I'm not a Christian either because I choose not to be. Get your facts straight, Please. And could you try to be A bit human once in a while.  You can get off the magic idea as I don't belong to any religion in practice today. Make a choice---you evolved with the animal and the human,, the good and the bad. You didn't know that till now did you. See if you can get around that. No-I don't think anyone is stupid.

You're making assumptions from a basis of you own imagination.    

And could you try to be A bit human once in a while.

I am not a theist, deist, but can be taken as an atheist from time to time. I'm not a Christian either because I choose not to be. Get your facts straight, please.

I do not "not" believe in any supernatural, there is no such thing. There's no God or entity floating around the moon spying on folks. I worship nothing---no one. No there is no one out in space---NO there is no one out in space looking at us

Belief for Christians seems to enjoy a special status as distinct from other beliefs -- a kind of exemption from actuality which allows one to hold the belief but never act upon its implications. Most Christians who profess to believe, do not Believe -- instead they imagine that if there were a God-centered universe, it would unfold in a certain fashion. And then they integrate that imagination with their reality and call it a belief.

I wonder what it means, to a Christian, to "believe."

That term is sometimes used to suppose something might be true -- as with a question such as "Did the Raiders win?" and the reply "I believe so," in which one thinks they might know the answer but are uncertain.

But I think that's not how Christians would like to express their connection to God. Their common use of the term "believe" implies they judge the truth of God to be absolute. After all, Jesus didn't say that salvation could be found by hypothesizing his divinity, but by Believing in it -- capital B. 

I believe gravity, the force causing things to fall toward the Earth, to be beyond doubt and my actions validate the veracity of my belief -- i.e., I am careful not to walk off the edges of cliffs because I know the consequences will demonstrate, to my detriment, the truth of my belief  (at least on Earth!).

Christians, however, are never wiling to put their "belief" to the test. They don't pray for God to cushion their fall, and then step off the cliff -- because when it comes to falling, their belief in gravity is more certain than their imagination of prayer. They cover this inconsistency with the concept of faith, a one-size-fits-all shield against contradicition that, in fact, only further exposes their false concept of belief.

Belief for Christians seems to enjoy a special status as distinct from other beliefs -- a kind of exemption from actuality which allows one to hold the belief but never act upon its implications. Most Christians who profess to believe, do not Believe -- instead they imagine that if there were a God-centered universe, it would unfold in a certain fashion. And then they integrate that imagination with their reality and call it a belief. 

Ironically those who DO truly believe, the Jim Jones types or the ones who refuse medical treatment and rely on prayer instead, i.e., what one might call the true believers who put their beilefs to the test, are denigrated as being mentally ill by everyone -- including the imagineer Christians who would like to be true believers themselves but are shocked back into reality when they actually confront its consequences in the actions of others.