Here is why guns need to be BANNED!
Offline GUN VIOLENCE in the UNITED STATES
Some Indicative Data:
Gun Ownership
The US has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands
Each year about 4.5 million firearms, including approximately 2 million handguns, are sold in the United States
An estimated 2 million second hand firearms are sold each year
The percentage of American households with a gun has been steadily declining (high of 54% in 1977 to 33% in 2009)
The average number of guns per owner has increased from 4.1 in 1994 to 6.9 in 2004.Sources: Injury Prevention (2007); ATF (2000); National Opinion Research Center (2008); Pew Research Center (2009)
Gun Deaths:
More than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country
More than 30 people are shot and murdered each day
1/2 of them are between the ages of 18 and 351/3 of them are under the age of 20
Homicide is the second leading cause of death among 15-24 year-olds
And the primary cause of death among African Americans of that age group
Gun Homicides (average annually):
Less than 50: Japan
Less than 150: Germany, Italy, France, etc.
Less than 200: Canada
More than 10,000: USA
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Offline JesusNEVERexisted wrote:A BAN and CONFISCATION! I realize that isn't realistic but we are talking hypothetical scenarios here. They did it in the UK and Australia and now they have under a hundred gun deaths a year and we have 30,000!!
So, after that will you propose a ban on cigarettes ? How about banning alcohol ? You're all about saving lives aren't you ? No ?
Dude you are so FULL OF IT AND YOU KNOW IT! Euro and Asian nations have obesity, tobacco, and alcohol but still don't make it so easy to get a gun. You cannot kill someone you just met on the street by force feeding them tobacco, food, or alcohol but you can easily kill them with a gun just by pulling a trigger!
YOU CANNOT WIPE OUT A CLASSROOM FULL OF LITTLE KIDS IN 5 MINUTES WITH FOOD, TOBACCO, OR DRINK BUT YOU CAN WITH A GUN!
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Guns don't need to be banned, they just need to stop being made like candy and sold like candy. I do agree that you don't need assault rifles or large capacity clips. But I cannot stand the "legal" vs "illegal" argument when the reality is a flooded market.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
There's never enough guns.
Yes, because there can be enough profit regardless of the death.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
There's never enough profit.
Let's just become smoking nazis and ban tobacco use.
This is where evolution comes in. I'd be lying if I said in certain contexts I would not take more. No one likes to make things harder on themselves, which is actually why I hate the term "hard work". Work should actually be easier, and is why we no longer ride horses and drive cars. When work is easy and fun the workers are MORE PRODUCTIVE.
The key to having more if that is what what wants is not fucking those below you. It is a perspective globally most at the top lose. It is easier to think about yourself than others.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
There's never enough death.
Why is it that every other Western nation puts restrictions on guns except us? Even in Canada only 3% of people own a handgun! In european nations you need to undergo a physical and psychological exam before you're allowed to have a gun and then it can take months and in many nations you actually need a reason not simply "I want a gun". Even Israel, which has had more terrorist attacks in the last 50 years than any other nation on earth, makes it a lot more difficult to get a gun and they have only had ONE mass shooting since the 1970s!
We have had over 70 mass shootings since the 1980s which is by FAR the greatest toll on earth! It is beyond insane and far far too easy to get a gun in America!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
Go back and look at the chart in Kapkao's post with the statistical rankings of preventable causes of death and get some real perspective. In light of those numbers, do you propose a psychological exam and background check for people who want to purchase tobacco ? How about a five day waiting period for people who want to purchase alcohol ?
On a related note, I was introduced over the weekend to a man who claims to have a gun collection of 2034 guns. I didn't count them, but after drooling over the collection, I have no reason to doubt his count. I have to admit I got a wee bit envious. For the record, he doesn't think he has enough guns.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
What about the mass school shooting in Dunblane Scotland of all those school shootings ?
What about the gun man in Norway that literally wiped out all of those children ?
And this morning, just in :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24985779
Paris gun attacks: Liberation and Societe Generale hit
A manhunt has been launched in Paris after a gunman attacked offices of the newspaper Liberation and opened fire outside the bank Societe Generale.
A photographer, 27, was seriously hurt at Liberation and a motorist was forced to drive to the Champs Elysees before he was allowed to go.
Police are looking for the same man who broke into the Paris offices of the 24-hour news channel BFMTV on Friday.
Police have now been stationed outside all the main media offices in Paris.
Liberation said images of the suspect corresponded with those of the attacker at BFMTV.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
And what about these types of murders ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-24986908
Ding family murder accused Anxiang Du 'just went crazy'
A man who killed a family of four told a British diplomat he "went crazy" when his former business partner "laughed in his face", a jury has heard.
Jifeng "Jeff" Ding, his wife, Ge "Helen" Chui, and daughters Xing, 18, and Alice, 12, were stabbed to death at their Northampton home in April 2011.
(And how about this one :
Peterborough ditch deaths: Joanna Dennehy pleads guilty
A woman has pleaded guilty to murdering three men whose bodies were found in ditches in Cambridgeshire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24987953
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-24976925
China police station attack leaves 11 dead
Nine axe-wielding assailants have been shot dead during an attack on a police station in China's volatile western Xinjiang province, state media say.
Xinhua news agency reports that two auxiliary police officers died in Saturday's clashes in Bachu county's Serikbuya, near the city of Kashgar.
Another two policemen were injured. Xinhua provided no further details.
(Quite a lot of damage for dudes with axes, wouldn't you agree ? Especially considering that they were fighting police).
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Stupid arguments. Yes people can be murdered with lots of things, but guns provide distance and are easier to use than other weapons, less risk of injury to the user of the weapon.
Still does not change that we have a flooded market, 300 million guns. Gus are manufactured like candy and sold like candy. If gun owners agree that guns are not candy, then they should not be treated like candy.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
So how do you propose to solve it ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
i've never had to wait five days and undergo a background check to buy a fuckin' milky way...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
It should be mandatory that every person, pacifist or not, should be forced to take a weapon education class.
Every person would then be forced to carry (1) pistol and (1) rifle.
Then there should be a law, if a person commits a violent crime, witnesses are allow to kill that perp with no consequences to their actions.
It is my opinion that crime would drop.
Yes that does seem rather non-sequitur to make that comparison.
And yet, the question in response to the above thread about alcohol, drugs, tobacco and all other things requiring a wait period went unanswered as far as the death rates of any of those things being a contributing factor anyway.
Haha, if they ever tell me that I have to pass a background check and wait five days on Vodka, Cigarettes and Candy, they will have a revolt on their hands that will make them wish they had stayed out of the way.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
non sequiturs? avoided questions? surprise, surprise.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I would rather handle that the way that it is highly recommended to do with motorcycle classes. If one wants to buy one, they are told that it would be advisable to take a class (and I do know a few young jerk-offs that thought they were too cool or too badass to take a class that later regretted that).
Easy to always tell the wannabe bikers from the old greybeard badasses. The wannabes want to play like Wild Hogs and come onto the scene like they have been riding for years and pretend they know all of the moves. Problem is, the old greybeards got to where they are because they DIDN'T ignore the safety hazards.
I am not sure what the implications would be if one could shoot someone on site. Of course, it has never been tested so we can not know.
I do think that if everyone was armed, people just might think twice before they tried something reckless. But that is my opinion and has not been tested. Gun opponents are forever talking about a Wild West America, but contrary to popular opinion, (at least by what I have read) there were very few, meet me outside the saloon scenarios in the old west and Billy the Kid was a little chickenshit back shooter.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
i saw a guy on "drunk history" say that only happened five times in the whole classical wild west period, and it was always because they were drunk. incidentally, i love that fuckin' show.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
That sounds about right.
I have not seen that show yet.
One that appealed to me for gritty realism, poetically foul language, and a lot of obscenity was Deadwood. However, while Deadwood in reality was rife with prostitution, gambling and drugs, I do not think the show was dead on accurate or anything else. And even with all the hype in the show, there was no gunfights
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Not true. It has recently been shown the vehicle and industrial emissions are behind more deaths than tobacco. And in fact all the deaths attributed to tobacco haven't been proven to actually be the cause of tobacco. It is simply assumed to be the cause.
Re: the topic, guns will never be banned.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
ok, we'll just ban obesity/overeating, in that case. still save a lot more people than banning firearms.
edit; forgot my usual
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Make less guns sell less guns. Ban high capacity clips and military style riffles. Mandatory safety classes, mandatory mental evaluations.
But even before you can get to that urban and suburban investment in education, lower cost of higher education. Lower pay gap to allow families to be involved with each other, their children and schools. Investment in mental health. Investment in all of the more poor societies urban, suburban and rural.
The second paragraph is actually what would cause society to feel less of a need for guns and would make it easier to solve gun death issues.
But will that happen? Not with Corporate America writing all of our laws. Corporate America loves it's welfare tax cuts and the cheap labor it keeps us dependent on them with.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Okay Brian, take a deep breath, wipe the spittle off your chin and put down your President Obama action figure...everything's going to be alright. Beyond will be along shortly to give you your much needed dose of *reality ( *not that that ever does any good
)
Ok, I have to admit, that made me laugh.
But no, Beyond is the delusional one not me. Anyone who thinks 300 million guns, obtained legally or illegally isn't a flooded market, is out of their mind. Guns are made like candy and handed out like candy.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
You mean more.
Why?
We should have that for voting too.
Well no, not as long as you keep voting for corporate America lackeys like Bama. Remember, I lost the election- you won.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Ha! Ok.
Obama could shit gold and you'd claim it was fake.
Yep, lets start with your Ayn Rand ass.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Well yeah. Would you claim it was real?!?
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Obama may very well just need to do something short of that with the way this Afforadable Healthcare Act is really taking a bad turn against him.
The fact that the speech about Jessica or whatever her name was in October turned out to NOT have the happy ending of affordable insurance is not helping.
The Dems are even abandoning ship on this one. Speaking of which, Bill Clinton was in one of the online newspapers stating that he would like to see a woman President. Hillary for next term anyone ?
While I am not a Dem or a Repub of any way, I do rather like Hilary for some reason. Not that having her in office would necessarily change anything.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
In what ways is that analogy even remotely accurate?
Nanny statists like Brian think it is governments job to tell us we have too many guns and too much sugar. That is why they can support banning large magazines and large sodas with equal vigor.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I'm beginning to think that the solution to gun violence is more gun violence. Give everyone a gun and suspend all law for a few years. Those who survive can then rebuild the country.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I can get behind that.
COME ON! That is the biggest false equivalency ever! Guns only have two purposes, maim or kill! You can enjoy tobacco or alcohol without hurting or killing anyone!
Harleyspotter, look at the attacker in China at the school at about the same time as Newtown. All he had was a knife and NO ONE was killed! That's the difference between guns and other weapons! Guns are far far deadlier and too easy to get & you guys know it! We have had well over a million people killed by guns the last hundred years but FAR FAR fewer killed by knives! YOU CANNOT COMMIT MASS MURDER WITH A KNIFE! Even if so it doesn't happen with the frequency or the body count of a gun mass murder!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
That's not actually true. The single most used property of a gun is its appearance; the implied threat that if you fuck with me, I can kill you easily. This is employed by police, security, and military the world over on a daily basis.
The second biggest uses of guns are probably marksmanship training and collections.
Third is likely hunting. For sport or food.
Then comes its use as a weapon against people, by people.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
You can also use a shoulder-fired missile or hand grenade to scare people but those are not legal! Every other Western nation on earth realizes deadly weapons shouldn't be so easy to get ahold of. WE SHOULD REALIZE THAT TOO!!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
What works for one nation doesn't necessarily work for another. Different nations have different cultures, histories and values. The US has a history with guns that isn't so easy to break. There are a huge number of guns in the hands of private citizens and a large number of those citizens have strong feelings about gun ownership. I don't see how any law you can make would change that.
Also, outlawing guns isn't likely to happen. Gun ownership is in the constitution, and all the people who value gun ownership will fight you tooth and nail. Even if people somehow passed a law banning guns it would be unenforceable. A lot of people wouldn't give them up voluntarily, and there are various ways to make and smuggle them. I think that pushing through overly zealous anti gun laws has the potential to do a lot more harm then good.
Lastly you need to consider the differences in values. Is preventing deaths the only thing that matters. What about freedom, and quality of life. It seems like the mountain of regulations keeps growing and growing. When does it stop, or is it just going to keep growing until eventually everything we do or don’t do is regulated by law.
Yes they are. It is a pain in the ass to jump through all the hoops and involves paying the government a nice chunk of change, but it is legal. Ironically, it is easier to purchase a shoulder fired grenade launcher, TNT, or C4 than it is to buy a hand grenade. The only thing that is really impossible is to purchase a restricted weapon that is built overseas, forcing good companies like IWI to build factories here to build their toys.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Your statement "Guns only have two purposes, maim or kill !" indicate a myopic, hysterical view. I have many guns and I have fired literally thousands of rounds from hand guns, shotguns, bolt action rifles, and military-style assault rifles and no man or animal has shed a drop of blood in all that time. That fact alone disproves your stupid assertion.
If I assumed your ridiculous logic I could also say that sexual activity is only for acquiring sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies.
Funny, the same federal agency that regulates firearms also has jurisdiction over tobacco and alcohol.
You are in no way concerned with preventable deaths and you prove it as you simply sidestep the death toll from tobacco and alcohol which both statistically exceed death by firearms. You overlook a stick of dynamite and focus on a firecracker.
Tobacco hurts those who consume it and other people from second hand smoke, and alcohol kills through the disease of alcoholism and all too frequently from drunk driving fatalities that usually involve the deaths of innocent drivers and their passengers. The alcohol related death toll in Texas already exceeds 2,600 which far exceeds the death toll from the worst mass shooting in history.
Your single minded focus on firearms at the exclusion of even more deadly causes of preventable death simply demonstrates that your outrage is politically driven and has absolutely nothing to do with the welfare of American citizens.
A BAN and CONFISCATION! I realize that isn't realistic but we are talking hypothetical scenarios here. They did it in the UK and Australia and now they have under a hundred gun deaths a year and we have 30,000!!
I even talked to a PRO gun police officer once and he told me if you had a mass shooting every 1 to 2 weeks for months in a row it would eventually lead to door to door confiscation of guns. But he said that is very unlikely to happen. He was just laying out a hypothetical scenario how you could possibly have confiscation of guns If things became so bad that you feared even leaving your house.
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
So, after that will you propose a ban on cigarettes ? How about banning alcohol ? You're all about saving lives aren't you ? No ?