letter to Old Seer
Offline Old Seer,
I would like to know your story. Not your cults story, your story.
I will give you mine.
Growing up, I was in a traditional catholic household, going to public school. I was the "average" kid. I played sports, video games (RPG's mostly, which have significant references to pagan religions), hung out with friends, etc. I claimed catholicism, but that was it (as most catholics do). After high school, I joined Navy.
During this time from high school to my beginnings in the Navy, I explored my sexuality, and found pleasure in same sex. I was in "A" school, and I was invited one Sunday to a local Baptist church, and I really enjoyed it, and the guy that invited me, prayed with me, and asked me to invite Jesus into my heart, I did that.
From that point on, I received what was like an awareness, and my "activities" tore me up inside. A little later down the road, I was invited to a United Pentecostal church, where I spent the next 8 years. I thought I had the "in" while I was there, but I was still living in sin. I read the Bible, but I trusted the preaching too much. Still when I would do the "activities" I would have the weight of guilt.
when I left that area, I decided I wanted to try Christian Mingle, which is where I met my now wife. She has a dedication to God and her faith, it is so strong. We looked for a church together, and came across a huge and popular non denominational church. BTW I left my previous church because I met some really strong Christians while out at sea that showed me that I was in legalism, and I started truly searching the scripture.
now, really being in the scripture had really helped with my walk. I was super nervous about my past though, which she didn't discover till 4 months into marriage, and it almost led to divorce. We both, separately spent time in the scripture, and sought after God, and after about a 2 month "separation" we came back together and realized the commitment we made, and that through Christ we can make it.
Now 3 years later we are still happy and have 2 wonderful kids. When we moved to a new location we tried a few churches, and when we found the right one, a community driven church with a pastor that preaches verse by verse, we settled there.
even though it took me a while, going from liberal to legalistic, to as scriptural based as possible, being in the scripture seeing things for myself, I have drawn closer to God. I am not perfect, but I desire to be closer to God every day because of what He has done for me.
now your turn. Also I would really like to correspond.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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Re :: Uncomplicated lives are especially so much more appealing
View / SEE Single Upload(s) --
Blake's work entitled:: "Friendship''
Fin
Re :: It's Fun to be me (smile) . . .
i think dana broke the thread.
you know, dana, if you would just include a few walls of text you would be like a benevolent, atheist dennis markuze.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
^ Yeah! Nice!! You seem to be hurting for compliments. What ?!? Just never did take the time to compliment you on that picture of you, with that banjo . . .
I am sure Old Seer won't have any problems with answering this . . seeing it's Old Seer !
Self Deprecating humor -- what follows in this ''Upload'' -- Self Deprecating humor -- what follows in this 'Upload' --
Good thing you weren't living during the time that God was dictating human law, you'd have been stoned and not in the fun way. Instead, you get the luxury of bible thumping against those evil gays and trying to make sure they aren't happy with their lives alongside the likes of Denny Hastert, George Rekers, Charlie Crist, Edward Schrock, Mark Foley and Robert Bauman.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
You're taking those Old Testament verses out of CONTEXT !!!
Well DUH, I'm an uneducated, selfish atheist with absolutely no emotions. That is why I don't have the proper empathy for someone suffering from SSaD, it is shocking.... and OUTRAGEOUS!
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
lol
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
No Subject -- Re :: Not an isolated incident but more misunderstandings !!
No Subject
No Subject --- View Upload
Numbers 7 and Number 8 --
Oooohhh, I got invited to church right after "A" school too, and I went to church with a couple of dudes. I didn't convert though......
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Ok Old Seer,
All I wanted to do was have a nice conversation and I shared personal story. I'm sorry if u r mad
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Re :: Praemonitus praemunitus
. . And nothing is stopping you JLY
To :: The OP -
And nothing is stopping you JLY . . but it takes each and everyone to be fully participating, within the primary principal parties, to engage!!
If you feel this whole thread is now this gigantic highjacking or is this whole mess, for whatever reason(s). You can request the admin (any of the Admin) to set you up with a one on one conversation, only takes a few minutes but you have to go to the trouble to formally request it, so they know what you're (JLY) asking for, in doing so!
But if you cannot keep track of either questions or who you are even talking to, of what possible advantage could it be, in the first place ? To be fair, even for the more accomplished (no veiled references), due to the fatigue, often times it has a tendency to bleed all together in people's minds. However, If you (JLY) are serious about speaking with the User that goes by Old Seer, I'm sure it would pay, to take a good long look at his Official and UnOfficial threads BEFORE you engage him in a much needed talk, huh ?
We're not speaking the same language, so to speak.
I don't belong to a cult. Cult is religion--Im don't belong to any known religion.
cultkəlt/nounnoun: cult; plural noun: cults- a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object."the cult of St. Olaf"
- a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction "a religious cult"
- a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing."a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of "the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"
- a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, especially among a particular section of society."a cult film"
OriginWe don't fit entered discriptions.
In our friendship group there are:
No leaders or followers: A leader is nothing more then a self follower, convincing others of thier idea of right and wrong. A follower is one who is ignorant of what is being followed, and will remain ignorant as long as one follows. If one is a follower then how long will one follow until they know everything the leader knows. Once one knows all that the leaderr knows what's the sense in remaining a follower. If one who is leading must continually have followers, then that same remains as ignorant as the followers. We are of a certain knowledge, we have become that knowledge--so there are no followers--or each would have to be following the self. We don't follow the knowledge we merely remain in it.
We don't lead others and we don't follow others.
We don't undertake any rituals.
We don't worship anything or any one--there's no point in it. Whatever one would worship isn't going to change the person or facts.
We don't pray. There's nothing to pray for if one is relatively content.
We don't have meetings or get togethers for any religious purposes.
We don't have any special clothing. Blue jeans or carpenter denims will do.
We don't have any sumbols or signs to indentify ourselves.
We don't offer incence to anything or anyone. It doesn't change anything except the air quality. We have nothing to burn incense for/to.
We don't say special prayers at meal times. When I have my morning coffee I look toward South America, raise my cup and thank Juan Valdez and everyone in between that labored to pick the beans so I could have coffee. If we use the term "God" we mean "people".
We don't have special music- organ grinding, foot stomping and all such are non productive.
We are non religious. We don't even know if we have a religion.
We don't believe in anything other then the "Human Entity" that we all have. We do not believe "in" the material universe. We believe the universe exists but we don't believe "in" it. Believe is one thing and "believe in" is another. "Belief in" creates religion. The universe will remain the same and so the laws of physics whether one believes "in" them or not. There's no point in believing "in" something if it won't change anything.
We are just plain guys, and there's nothing special about us.
Please see the ending of post 46 in the other thread.
Seer:
1. a person who sees; observer. 2. a person who prophesies future events; prophet: Industry seers predicted higher profits. 3. a person endowed with profound moral and spiritual insight or knowledge; a wise person or sage who possesses intuitive powers. (change spiritual to mental) 4. a person who is reputed to have special powers of divination, as a crystal gazer or palmist. !-2-3 Apply4- we don't have crystal balls or divinate anything. We don't read palms or playing cards etc. We understand the future from present states of mind of the masses and their leaders. A particular mental condition leads to a particular result. Pschyatrists do it in their practice of psychiatry. We don't have any better intuitive powers then anyone else.The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Stick to being an electrician, you suck at this. Oh, and your suggestive wording that intimates that he's a "cultist" would be as inappropriate as him suggesting that you're a "fag" based upon your personal story. Geez, what a tactless dolt you are.
tbh, os is a cultist. He's as batshit crazy as any other theist. You don't need a god-type being to effectively be in a cult
But then, so is jly in a cult (or so he pretends. what he really believes, only he knows...). So he really has no business throwing that term around.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Who are the cultists ? EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE WHAT JLY DOES !
The deal with old seer is that despite his beliefs he isn't a condescending jerk. Luminon was a very intelligent, educated Czech student who also happened to be very into spiritual woo-woo, but he was almost universally liked by the atheists on this forum. There was the Australian woman ( Eloise ? ) who was a panentheist but I don't remember her ever being actively disliked by any of the atheists here. I can tolerate spiritual beliefs in a person, I can't tolerate the kind of bull shit that JLY is peddling, though. I don't write someone off just for being a believer in woo, I write them off for being an ass hole.
I didn't finish my previous post.
I'm not angry, I just haven't been here lately.
My history has been posted somewhere on this site quite a while ago. I understand you very well. Be patient with yourself and take time for things to develope. Slow down if you need to and think things through. It took me 3 years to slow down after I retired, and I had to concentrate on accomplishing it. I was a product of the world's society just as well as anyone else. Change doesn't happen in one day to correct a lifetime of anxiety. Ok, Sailer, turn to and make do. ONE thing at a time.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Good point.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
fit or exist in any of these descriptions.
Edit: When analysing this it could just as well be the US Government, or any other government. Looks the same to me.
Our E-Library contains full text articles and other resources related to the information below. Click here.
Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised
Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
The most loyal members (the “true believers&rdquo
feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
This checklist will be published in the new book, Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias (Berkeley: Bay Tree Publishing, 2006). It was adapted from a checklist originally developed by Michael Langone.
_
Resources
Langone, Michael, Ph.D.: "Definitional Ambiguity"Langone, Michael, Ph.D.: "On Using the Term "Cult"
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
There is absolutely no way I could deny the truth of the Gospel of Christ after what impact He has had in my life.
The Bible says to glorify and worship the Lord. He deserves every bit of it.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
cult/kəlt/
noun
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
One can easily argue this extends to concepts, especially unproved concepts. As such, you are in fact a cultist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
venerate or have devotion toward anyone or anything. If you want to take it to concepts then Atheism can be a cult, for some, yes, - for others, no.
What "is" our unproved concept. You mean--as you see unproved concepts. Have you "unproved" our "concept'. Explain our "concept' as you see it. You tried this before and utterly failed. Would you please present "your" dictionary for inspection. I use the common ones everyone else uses. Proceed.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
yes, the australian was eloise. christ, i miss her and her input. she was quite possibly the single most brilliant woman i've ever had the pleasure of talking to (if only online)--definitely the most brilliant besides some of my old professors. i really wish she'd come check in from time to time. i regret never getting her email or anything, but because of her theist badge i could never message her privately and i didn't want to ask her such a thing on a public forum.
if anybody has any contact for eloise, i would greatly appreciate a PM.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
re :: Play it again ''Sammie" For a true Alchemist nothing is impossible (*heheho*)
I do definitely believe in angel-folk, I know I'm not the only one !
Of all the organically certified gin joints in all the towns in all the world (Ref. will be lost to time, but afterall this time, maybe it pays to risk sounding a little nuts, now and again!) !!
Rick and Ils of the famed film do torment themselves by asking the club's piano player, 'Sammie' (Arthur "Dooley" Wilson), to play As Time Goes By, a song they loved after they joyrided about the city of Paris. The famous line from the vintage film ( "Play it again, Sammie" ) It's always a haunting pretty girl, who are really so hard to get out of your head (*sigh*) !
Single Uploaded Image (Single Image Only and bonus MUST view YouTube) --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCk9uc8IQxY {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCk9uc8IQxY}
On-Site :: Interesting interpretation of images, I cannot but help think some were of the conviction that some images are actually making threats against someone?? Hmm!! I can ask if it is non-threatening for a very dumb redneck to leave a dead animal on a elevated porch, out in the middle of a very rural location ?!? Inquiring minds ?
Explain your concept? Well to put it simply, you seem to be just like the ancients from the Stargate TV franchise (yes I am a nerd).
What you have done is "correspond" with people you barely know through the postal service. Because these people have a certain level of education you automatically agreed with what they wrote to you. You have not provided any sort of evidence to me on your part of how you came to your conclusions outside of your "correspondence", saying you head of a certain thing from a select group of Jews, and your whole "give it time and it will make sense". You keep making excuses and not providing hard evidence.
The atheists, whether I asked for it or not, have provided me with hard evidence for their positions. I respect them for that.
I have shown you, that to believe the way you do, that you flat out ignore textual criticism, historical context, the audience being addressed, the actual definitions of the Hebrew/greek words used in context.
You constantly deflect with "give it time and you will see". Im sorry brother but I've read too many books, and researched too many words to even remotely come close to what you are trying to put out there.
Where is this correspondence that you so often refer to? did you not keep a copy?
I'm here to have a conversation with you, and you flat out avoid every single question I put on the table. I'm not asking to be a pest, I'm not asking to be a know-it-all, i'm not asking in a mean way, but I genuinely want to understand how your "belief system" that you are throwing out there fits into all of this.
To create a foundation to where I am going:
The Bible mentions Nimrod as the founder of Babylon among other lands. That is it. The exile happened under Nebuchadnezzar, which was well into the age of Kings, not prior to the establishment of the tribes of Israel. Anything outside of the those lands being the beginning of Nimrod's kingdom is "extrabiblical" doctrine. We know that those lands were his kingdom, and he was a mighty hunter. THAT IS IT. Also the tower of Babel. The definition of heaven is merely sky. Every single tower ever built reaches heaven, as stated in biblical terms. If you were looking for a gigantic tower higher than any tower built today, you are way off. Also as contrary to popular belief, God wasn't trying to stop them from reaching "His Heaven". The people were "trying to make a name for themselves", or in other words be a singular government so to speak.
Back to what I was saying, between the tower of babel thing, and Nebuchadnezzar, NOTHING is mentioned about Babylon. NOTHING. Also as I said is NOTHING outside of being a mighty hunter is mentioned about Nimrod.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
No it can't. Atheism is by definition the rejection of any such devotion or veneration. It's why Brian37 isn't an atheist: he worships popular atheists.
You worship your concept of the universe, and you are part of a group who does exactly the same. You are a cultist. QED.
Btw, I never failed to define your belief structure. YOU failed to acknowledge your belief structure is theistic.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I don't answer your questions is--I can see there's no use
You have to statrt where we did. Is creation spiritual or material. if you maintain it's material this will go nowhere. I have expeience to know that. How long do you want me to deal with this. I'm not going to be with this every day, day in and day out ----for how long. There's more to understanding the book then what is in the book.
Forexample---On a pseudo-Christian site I was on 3 years ago every post I made was answered by the one of same guys---do you have a verse for that. Jeeeesus H Krist man,,,what happened to logic or the use of his own brain. He put himself in such a narrow lane of mentality the only place it led to was off a cliff.. You have a tendacy to do the same thing, however quite a bit more mildly I can see.
If you want to maintain (I repeat) that creation is material this will go nowhere. How do I explain something I know you won't understand. An apostle points to---you have to feed a baby a little at a time--or you'll choke the baby. The baby has alreasdy been choked before it was fed anything. You are making assumptions. I did not interpret the book--I was the one that had the questions. I can read and understand Moby Dick without knowing who wrote it. Therfore then, I didn't have to know who was on the other end of the correspondence, I could understand what was sent to me because I was able to read.
It isn't important for you to beleve our interpretation of creation, but it is important for you to understand it.
Creation ties to Adam, Adam ties to Nimrod. Nimrod caused the fall, the fall requies a Messiah (one to teach the personality of Adam) Adam and JC are the same kind of people, which means JC knew the same things as Adam, the beliefs of Adam and Christianity are the same. The belifs of Adam are the original lost religion of his decndants. That's why the Jews use the term "God"------they don't know the beliefs of Adam that their ancestors fell away from.
If you can't absorb this in any manner or form then there's no sense in proceeding. It took us 8 yearts or more, and we still wern't done. We left off becasue we knew enough and didn't need to know more. We came to an understanding of where the book is coming from and to where it's going. The book refers to it as--The Alpha and the Omega. Yes --we know what that is. What's in between is no longer much interest to us.
We no longer need the book to understand the worlds dellemas and whats needed to correct them. We can explain all that without the book. We only quote the book becasue others do---but we don't need it. We graduated away from it. But it is what taught us why the world has it's social problems. We submit it to others for their consideration and acceptance. We don't care one way or tuther who does and who doesn't. We know that if we have something we feel or or know that will help the masses change the course of what we see as eventual self destruction then we are duty bound to inform others. We are at the end of that task at present. if by some chance it's all meaningless we are still assured we did what's right by others. We're trying to keep your asses alive not ours. It's the "human" thing to do. An animal wouldn't care.
How long do you think I have to tie that (plus more) it all together for you. All you need to know to get a start is read what's on our website and do your own thinking. You're more into who's who, or how we communicated----the hell with that. It's of no importance to us. If you start now it'll take you about two years or so depending upon your learning ability. If you don't care then dump it and go about your life as usual. We have other plans now.
As the saying is--what goes around comes around. You can wait for it to come around, and it'll get to you, it's on it's way. I can't be tutoring people for the next 2 to 4 years.
So, once again. If you hold that creation is material let this go. if you come around to an understanding that it's spiritual you're on your way. I don'thave years to spend on this.
If we can do it--anyone can.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
you're another one that can't use your own brain . Work it out. Explain why you say or think we are theists. I thought your were smart. I gave you all the info you need to know.
1- we don't believe in any super human entity, no such thing/person exists.
2- We don't believe in any Deity or see there is such a thing.
3- we don't venerate or have devotions any more then you do.
4- can you understand this now, or remain willfully blind.
Lets see how far you can stretch something else.
Why are you haveing a problem with this. It seems to me--you want the problem
We don't worship the universe, and that's nothing more then another of your stretched hog pucky, try something else. We understand the laws of physics and I already stated in a recent post that we don't believe "in" the universe. Belief in the universe doesn't do a thing for anyone.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Old Seer,
I don't think you even understand your whole material/spiritual argument. You can not have a material creation without spiritual behind it.
As the Bible, specifically Jesus, says God is a Spirit, those who WORSHIP (there's that word again, that Jesus Himself said) must WORSHIP Him in Spirit and in truth.
I do believe in a spiritual aspect to creation.
you keep deflecting. You have no answers and you keep circling to "see for yourself". Also it's so HILLARIOUS how again you ignore facts, such as this time when I mentioned that whole thing about the Bible not mentioning anything about Nimrod other than being a mighty hunter and the founder of certain lands.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
No I'm saying YOU are another one who can't use his own brain. You prove it every single time you post. Every. Single. Time.
Been there, done that. Waiting on you.
Been there, done that.
I know you aren't.
And it proved you're a cultist crackpot.
1: Irrelevant. Not a prerequisite for cultism or theism.
2: Irrelevant. Not a prerequisite for cultism or theism.
3: A lie.
4: Right back at you.
You're the one streching.
I'm not the one who has a problem.
Strawman.
LOL no. You can't even understand the methods and practices of searches, or the difficulties involved in searching. Even after at least two different people point them out.
Red herring.
Red herring.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
but a troll looking for someone to kick around. You stretch things into anything you want them to be. I have yet to notice you haveing respect for anyone. It's your nature to controversial and condesending. You are an offensive personality and have an acute superiority complex (look it up)and immature, and can't find you own sandbox to play in. You prowl around the site looking for someone to get the best of. You're a winner in your own mind on all things.
So, what else do you have me worshiping, there'splenty more to go.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
you need to know is already posted on this site and our website. I don't have time to give private lessons. It's up to you to figure it out, or I have to post everything all over again. I'm deflecting if that's what you call it because it takes hours to post---time I haven't got. What do you expect. If it's hillarious then dump it. What is a fact to you may not be a fact to me or else. What's right for us may not be right for someone else. If it's not right in your mind forget it and move on. There are individuals who will be interested and will undersrtand it more easily. All this has been gone over before already.
Nimrod---- The book states--the beginning of his kigdom was called Babel. There-fore then--he is the founder of the Babylonian system for the middle eastern peoples,as best as we can see. You're reading the book as though it's English literature. The book isn't written in a European format.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
You're nothing but a crackpot cultist who is incapable of self awareness.
Projection.
Then you don't pay much attention.
Only to idiots like you. I have no tolerance for wilful stupidity.
Unlike yourself I actually know quite a bit about psychology. You are a self deluded moron with a superiority complex who thinks he has everything figured out. But you don't.
You're like a whiny 5 year old who doesn't like being told no.
Nope. It just happens. Because the idiots outnumber the smart people. As in all things.
More like in fact, which is why losers like you can never prove me wrong. The other smart people here have proved me wrong before, but you can't prove me wrong because YOU are wrong.
Nothing else but your concept of the universe, and all that entails. You have an affinity for reading your own bullshit and for conspiracy theories, but I wouldn't quite say that constitutes worship.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
so how am I reading the Bible as English lit, when I always take time to figure out the historical context, and researching hebrew/Greek to see the actual definitions of things in the actual languages the text originated in?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
wrong because you can't accept being wrong and strech to fit anything the way you want to make it. My conceptof the universe is the same as everyone else's. How in the heck did you come up with this nonsense. It's nothing but another strech to fit isn't it.
We are not Theists, deists, or have any cult practices. And you haven't shown it to be so. Fini.
I'll let you be a winner by getting in the last word. Then go back to your sand box and play truck. It's floks like you that run the world, and there's no reason for you to be the way you are except if you want to be. You can't convince me that you can't see the "other" way. You are what you want to be. So are we. We are not going to be you.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Submitted for insight----From the outset (on this site) we knew we were Atheistic, but that's a real problem when I made the claim that were wern't Deists. Theists,or Atheists because at that time we wern't clear on what we were. There's no such thing as being Atheistic, either one is or one isn't. The same with Christianity (or being properly Human), one is or one isn't. Being that the world is as it is we still have to deal with it and become inhuman as demanded from time to time becasue the systems in place won'tallow one to be human continuiously, so one gets knocked around in and out of what one would prefer. So, we can't claim to be Christian either becasue it cannot be accomplished along side a system that is dominant. The systems exist on what is inhuman, but it's not seen that way by the masses because all have gotten used to the present discription of things as dictated by leaders. The system has formed people's reality and trying to get through that is a hard thing. One of the things we encountered was when an understanding came about that we were all fooled by a system of false reality. We began to understand how we were fooled and for what purposes. This fooling by the system operators goes back 1000s of years and is still prominent today. But if one tries tell a person they've been fooled thay won't belive it bnecasue they belief that ---they can't be fooled, and all the while they live in a reality that has them fooled and being fooled has become the reality. So, what do we do with this. ???? We don'tknow. We've found we were fooled but we're can't convince anyone else they've been fooled. The trick is--to get peopletolook at it--but everone is, oh no, not me, I'm not fooled. Well hells bells--someone is fooled around here, the condition of the sytems and the wolrd in general could only come about by---somebody is fooled. We're all living in a fools parade and liars paradise, created by guys like Nimrod. A civilization cannot come about unless it's lied into being. Someone has to foll someone--or someone is fooled into thinking thay can actually create one that works--which is an impossiblity. The very concepts that a civilization is founded on are the very things that ruin it and cause it's demise. The same kind of people that ran civilizations 8000 years ago are the same type that run it now.
Ok Im off and gone for a while.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
The incessant whining of a loser who is always wrong brings joy to my heart.
One of the most blatantly ridiculous and false things anyone has ever said in the history of the Earth. You should get an award. Sterilisation comes to mind as the perfect trophy.
This is a question that every sane and rational person asks whenever they read one of your posts.
A projection in the form of a question.
Bullshit.
More bullshit. I proved two of three conclusively.
Unnecessary. I already won a long time ago.
Poor baby can't stand being a loser.
I wish. If folks like me ran the world things would be a lot better.
There's plenty reason. Nothing turns people away from stupid beliefs before they get sucked into them faster than ridicule and humiliation.
I've generally given up on trying to teach stupid people that they are stupid. Instead I try to prevent other people becoming infected with stupidity. Occasionally I do actually succeed in making idiots come to grip with reality, but the success rate is low. The sad fact is that most stupid people actually like being stupid.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
You are doing it again....you are saying "this is the way it is". But how did you come to this conclusion? what led you to this?
Westerners write events in sequences, while middle easterners MAY not? Again, HOW do you know this?
So where are you receiving this information about Nimrod that's NOT in the Bible?
1. Can you show me this terminology that the "Euros" replaced with their own terminology?
2. If Jesus didn't command anything or anyone why did He command the great commission in Matthew 28 and Mark 16?
Why did He command Lazarus to come out of the tomb?
Why did He command demons into swine?
3. If worship has no value why did Jesus say to worship?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I found a picture of Jesus but he doesn't look that Jewish to me.
You can't use logic. We call this phenominon you're in--the bible box. You can't see outside of what you have already accepted. The book is self interpertaiing but not in all cases. Our nterpretaion is not easy to understand so don'tget the idea I think you're stupid. The Atheists on this site are very excellent thinkers and they are having a hell of a time with this also. Their problem is not that they're stupid--this is unfamiliar territory and they also are stuck on your interpretation. It's hard to understand a differenc in something always understood in what has become conventionally established. That goes for anything.
The swine thing-lazarus--what the heck. I already went over this. JC could work miracles. We don't know how that's possible so we don't deal with it. We can't beileve something we don't understand. Miracles are not necessary to believe in what's human. So, we don't deal with it and have to let it be. If you want miracles you'll have to go find someone who can---we can't--not that I know of anyways.
I'm going to go over this one more time and that's all. If the Atheists here are having problems with this (which is undersatndable) you sure as hell won't get it.
OK--Go to the website (I have to tell you again) and study the entery of creation. See if you can get an insight or two on whether that could be true or not. If you can'tfigure it out or think it's not valid---move on, forget it. I told you---what goes around comes around, and it's on it's way via the grapevine (as it's refered to). When it gets to you gather some friends and discuss it. It won't be around for a while yet.
Once again You have to start with the beginning--which is creation--the 7 days. Starting in the middle won't work. If your interpretaion of creation is wrong you've got at least 80% (that's a guess)of book misunderstood. The book hinges on creation. Without it the book is senseless.
We found something we weren'tlooking for. We had no intent or interest in interpreting the book in any manner or fashion. One thing lead to another and after 8 years we understood something different then what was commonly understood. You have to start where we did---the beginnig. A simple question---why doesn't creation match the way the universe works.
If you want to worship--have at it. We don't because it accomplishes nothing. Are you sure it's "worship", or could it be "recognise". We concluded that worship is nothing more then an ancient parctice that got dragged into the new testment. One of our finding (plus many more) is that Chrsitianity is nothing more then one's own huiman mentality opposite the other side which is the animal mentality. That is why I directed you to Romans 1. It is obvious that the apostles make a clear distiction between the animal mind and a human mind. If they make this distiction of the animal mind then Chritianity/human has to be the other, what else.
The adamites are a group of individuals of an african bush tribe that migrated to the area of the Tigress an euphrates rivers and settle there. It has been shown very conclusivly by DNA testing that all people on the planet today migrated to different areas of the planet from an African Bush tribe. Where eslsecould hyave they come from. (NOW USE SOME LOGIC HERE) DNA doesn't lie. Wouldn't it be logical that the group that settled between the tigress and euphates rivers became Adam. We say so. Their decendants as far as we can make out are the middle eastern tribs of today still. That means that Europeans are not decendants of Adam. Wouldn't that make sense. What I'm attempting to emphasize to you is--the book doesn't cover everything. It is not the history of the world, but the history of the decendants of Adam. You are going to have to do some research to bring this to an understanding. If Adam and Eve are two sex maniacs in a garden to you --you won't get it. I can't tell you where to find all this as I'm not the one who found everything--I only contributed a smal amount on the over-all and all the guys had a hand in it, so I can't tell you where to look. I am not a one man group. I'm forwading what we found collectivly. If you want to puirsue this you're on your own. Start where we did and go from there. If you say our interpretaion of creation is wrong---move on.
Jeeziz H Krist. man, the apostles weren't perfect or magical. they were ordinary people as you and I. Now, the last item. They had to get together and decide if circumcision was necessary, now didn't they. why did they have to decide that. Becasue they dragged it in from their previous religion and decided it wasn't necessary. What else might have they dragged in. Wouldn't they all have been guided by the holy spirit and had it right to begin with. Maybe the holy spirit isn't what you think it is. So, there's some room for flexability isn't there. There's no requirement in Chritianity that one has to be a stiff as a board mentality. One is allowed to think on their own you know.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
ok. This is absolutely going nowhere. You keep regergitating "go to our webite" Yada Yada yada. I have read your website. It is essentially a blog.
you have no references, no evidence to back your claims.
simple example: westerners write sequentially, middle easterners may not. You can't even say how you discovered that information.
Stop beating around the bush PLEASE.
Stop refering to your website. I have read it. All I want to know is how you verified all the information that you claim
for instance you keep trashing what you refer to as the "euro translation", so why don't you share this "true translation" that you claim to be in possession of?
I'm getting tired of your constant deflections.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And this idiot claims he's not a cultist. HA
HA
HA
HA
HA
Total fruitcake cultist.
Even the theist is ripping you apart. How embarrassing.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
We can't even find a Deity in creation.
Some one lied to somoen to cause the fall of Adam---right. Who did the lieing. You would say Satan-right. We would say the same except we don't see Satan as you do. We don't see Satan as a free roaming spiritual entity going about the planet causing trouble. Satan is symbolic of a person doing the decieving. Satan is a dirivative of someones animal nature/mind that decieving originates from. To us that would have to be a person. The only one it could be is---Nimrod. Nimrod instituted civilization, and civilization can only be constructed out of the animal mental concept. There-fore then, civilization desolves Adam and replaces it with a Satonic/babylonian system, As JC points to satan is the God of this world. The era of Adam in our interpretation ends when Nimrod institutes civilization. That means then, that the instutution of civilization is the fall of Adam. The "garden of eden" is a mental thing not a physical/material place. There is no Deity or apple involved here. The friut of the tree od the knowledge of good and evil is an expression of the fruits/result of the mind/thinking. Instead of the Adamites remining as is they were changed to what Nimrod wanted them to be--hence- as it has been said, as Nimnrod a might hunter/predator before the lord/people. Everyone becomes like Nimrod in a prdatory system perpetrated by him. He had to decieve/trick them into it. Once changed they are no longer Adam because Adam is a matter of the mental not the physical. Reason it ouit. The fall could only have been a mental thing. it's the mind that changed not the body. Adam isn't about the physical, they are about the mental--so the fall then is something mental. In our understanding of things there is no such thing as a person existing outside the brain, so in our terms Satan is representative of someone's mental condition. where there is no brain the is no one. we don't find where this book is even dealing with any super human anything--there's no need for it, and as we find, it's an impossibility for a person to exist or be formed outside the brain. That can be undserstood by the fact that one did not exist untill there was a brain to form within, otherwise you would have had to be existing "before" the brain formed. and that can't be--so this book is about something else. What you have as an interperpretaion is nothing more then ancient European superstition, a fairy tale, nothing more.
After the fall the decentdants of Adam become theistic and invent a deity to replace the mentality of Adam becaue they lost/gaveup the meaning/mentality/person of Adam. Nimrod becomes God/the ruler. And they are no longer ruled by natural social processes, they become artificailly ruled by Nimrod. Now, who else can be the candidate to do the decieving when it takes deception to instutute a civilization. Instead of remining in knowledge of how they were they become superstitious. The Jewish religion today is a product of those superstitions. The book is about people, not magic entities floating around the galaxey.
If all on the planet are decendants of the Africam migrations which is very well accepted and understood then your interpretaion has to be bogus. Logicalluy then, the Adamites could only be a part of, or one of, those migtration. That means that Adam is not made by any super human anybody. The term "God" then as used in creation is a misnomer or it's something else, or it just plain doesn't belong there. Superstitions in the middle east come after the fall not before. What you are asking me to do without you realizing it is prove youe interpretation because that's all you can see. I'm not going to do that. I'm only staying with this to accomodate you and maybe by some chnace there's a switch in you mind that might turn on a light. It doesn't look like that's going to happen does it. Don'tworry about it, some things take time to form in the brainial cavity. I suggest you move on and leave it alone. According to our experience thhings form over time. Ypou want an immediate result--I don't think that's possible at this time. Forget it and work on it from time to time, or just leave it be. Makes no difference to us.
OK, I tied Nimrod to the fall so you should be able to understand how our interpretaion came about. That can be done in our understanding of the book, not yours. The book is nothing more then the history of a particular people in a particular place useing syblos and metafors because they didn't have the vocabulary to explain thins so they had use material objects from their surroundings in place of words they didn't have . Any history of any peoples is nothing more then record of their thinking and the results/consequeces of that thinking or mental conditions.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
It's funny to watch you lose to a christian. At least twice he asked you to show where you get the idea the bible wasn't written sequentially, and every time you dodge the point and reassert it as if he hadn't just made a mockery of you. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of your failure.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Ok, cue Barney the dinosaur:
Let's get even simpler. A yes or no question. No long drawn out answers.
Can I validate the information on your site external of your site? If yes, please show me where. If no, what good is it.
An atheist can tell me "this is what I think" and validate it with medical journals, scientific articles, books, etc. (Again, I like science, and I agree with a lot of science).
I, or any other Christian cam say "this is what I believe", and back it with historical studies, theological studies, hebrew/Greek definitions, textual criticism, etc. Choose whether or not to believe it, ok, but there is external evidence to back belief.
so back to the yes or no portion, can you support your website with external source material, yes or no.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
there's not much of any place you can go to to verify what you want. We are the originators of this interpretation. The only place you can go is the aposetles where I refered you to previously or to us. IE-the invisible things of creation that can be clearly seen etc. You won't find our interpretation anywhere on the planet as yet. There are a few groups in discussions but that's all. That's the plan--to get the public working on it. From creation all other of our interpretaions fall into place. This isn't our argument anymore--it's the people's argument. There's (as previously stated)only two interpretations possible, yours and ours. We are the finders of ours,n ow there are two. It's up to the people to decide whicj is true or false. That's the idea of me being here. From here it spreads to everywhere. Thats the plane. How many floks do you think log onto this site on a daily basis. Now--I gave away the plan because it's come time to move on. The job is done. Take this interpretaion to your clergyman for his analysis--he'll deny everything, or, he might run out the door screaming, or, become silent. The more he thinks about it the more he'll see the trap. Out of the two possiblities only one will be left standing he is going to have to decide --what the hell do I do. Everyone in your congregation qwill be getting it--then what. The people are the ones to decide, and we don't much care what they decide. It's not our problem--it's yours, or you can dump it and let it be. But it will be coming around the horn--deal with it then. You'll be forced to. Your clergyman will have to deal with it when it gets to him. You can shorten his wait by directing him to our web site. By doing so you will be helping us out. Now--do you understand what we're doing. Thanks for your help in informing others that log on here. Get the picture.
There's a saying in the last book of the old testament, the last page. "The levits will have dung on their faces". The levits were the tribe that were the priesta and temple handlers. Levit their term, in this case translates to clergyman, because levits were their clergymna. This is a prophecey for as future event near the end time. It means--the clergy will have shit on their faces, which also translates to " embarassment". So, take this to your clergyman. You'll be doing us another favor. Let him/her advise you on it. Give it to your congregation so allcan have a goog laugh on us--you'll be doing us a favor. Hop to it---quick like a bunny.
No, there's no place to go except us or the book. If this is new--where else can you go.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Well at least you have the balls to admit you made it all up.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Ok L. Ron Hubbard, you have seemingly created your own religion with no foundation to stand on.
You can interpret all you want, but the issue here is, you dodge facts
ie. Your position on Nimrod, when all that is said is He was a mighty hunter. Who you are actually thinking of is Nebuchadnezzar.
You throw information that you did not validate out on the table when it's information that can be validated.
ie. Westerners write sequentially and middle easterners may not.
That is something that CAN be researched, and you havent.
this is what I am going to do now. I am going to take all that verifiable information off of your blog, research the varifable information, and then get back to you with my findings.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I don't see why you can't do this yourself. all you had to do is search nimrod. Holy Kow. In our day we didn't have the internet--we had to use logic. Consider how close we came to what this page has. Learn to think for yourself- step out of your bible box for awhile. We did not have the assets you have today. Now you're going to do what I've been trying to get you to do all this time. It's best you get off your duffer and start looking and learning. When you deal with us "you" have to work at it, that way one learns more and better. Good for you. Get your ass moving on this and don't rely on others to make it easer for you. I don't have time--hour after hour after hour to handle things like this. I had to get the garden tilled today--now--I see you finally got the idea. Have at it sailer, and get right. and no, we didn't create our own religion, this is something we encoutered. We're submitting it to others for their analysis to be accepted or rejected. We don't care what you do with it. It'slike giving a gift--open the package and have a look at what's inside.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/nimrod.html
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth