Quotes from the founding fathers everyone should know
Offline The majority of the founding fathers were deists, as indicated when they wrote All men are endowed with inalienable rights by their Creator, others were atheists. I have reason to believe that most of them had a very low opinion of Christianity, as I shall show, and ALL of them, atheist, deist, theist or otherwise, were secularists.
The Christian God is a being of terrific character- cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust
-Thomas Jefferson
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say there are nothing, or that there is no soul, no angels, no god. I cannot reason otherwise...I am satisfied, sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which we have no evidence
-Thomas Jefferson
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man
-Thomas Jefferson
During fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been it its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolences in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution
-James Madison
Lighthouses are more useful than churches
-Benjamin Franklin
This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it
-John Adams
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how it has happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed
-John Adams
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has produced- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced.
-John Adams
And everyone should know of the 1797 Treaty with Tripoli drafted by George Washington himself.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitian nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of harmony between the two countries.
And of course: Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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Maybe you are taking these quotes out of context.
LOL. No. Most of them are per se quotes. Some of the longer ones are from letters, and some, are of course, from the famous rants about the evils of monotheism which Jefferson felt obliged to make public, as such wonderful men decide to do, with excellent regularity.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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I love these quotes ;]. I think the previous reply was making a joke as to "taking out of context" as this is what theists always say about the bible
Biochemist & Law Student
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson
I think that these ought to be stickied, or atleast posted in the Rational Content section.
Good work!
When and how did the fire and brimstone creeps manage to usurp the constitution and declare us "judeo-christian"? I know things like "in god we trust" on the money and "under god" in the Pledge were instituted relatively recently, but was there some event or trend which allowed for this cart to go off the tracks?
There are no theists on operating tables.
I hate Christians who say, "They said alot about God being part of their lives and twist it to mean Jesus wrote our constitution".
The founders were a variety of beliefs, many deist, others specific sects of Christianity. BUT ALL valued freedom of religion to mean IN THE MIND OF THE INDIVIDUAL to be practiced without goverment favortism or persicution.
"Endowed by their Creator" was not a collective right to use Jesus as the official goverment bus driver. "Endowed by their Creator" ment that which the individual saught on their own time independantly from government.
But, that was not even included in the Constitution at all. That was basically a fuck you letter to the king which was not olny taxing the crap out of them, but also demanding obediance to the official church of england.
So lets not lend the fallacy to the theists that the founders were not religious individuals and wanted an atheist run goverment. But, they did not want a Christian use only government with all others being mere guests.
"Freedom of Religion" and free exorsize were never ment as a license for Christians to slap a Jesus label on the Constitution.
The First Amendment is an anti-trust law to prevent monopolies on power. Our goverment is not allowed to favor Christianity over all others. It cant persicute Christians or atheists, but it cannot play favorites.
I do get sick of assholes who dont study their history and make stupid claims that atheists want to make religion illegal. We simply want to get OUR GOVERMENT, back to the neutral position the founders intended.
Prayer for example has not been outlawed in schools like they'd have you think. What is unconstitutional is creating a captive audiance and forcing others to partisipate our be outed if they leave the class.
Individuals independant of being employeed can pray, say at the luch tabel or individually before a test or in the halway. What they cannot do is say to someone else, "If you want to partisipate in graduation, or if you want to watch a football game, you have to listen to the majority pray to the Christian god."
All a Christian has to do to understand is switch rolls with another religion. Lets say a Christian is a minority in a Jewish community and at graduation the Christian can leave, but what kind of choice is that? If they stay, then they are forced to listen to prayers of Yahwey.
Bibles are also not outlawed in school. But again, they cannot be read over the intercom for staff to prostlyitize to the students or used in front of a class to promote the God of Jesus over all others.
Again, all a Christian has to do to understand this is by example. Lets say you are Baptist In a Mormon community. Should a teacher be reading the book of Mormon everyday in front of the class.
Other issues fundies falsely claim. "No Religious Test" when quoted by an atheist is automatically assumed as a forcefull attempt on our part to use goverment to end religion. BULLSHIT!
We qoute that for the same reason secular Christians and Jews quote it. It means that when we seek out qualified people for public service we cannot and should not hold their religion against them.
ANOTHER MYTH
When the atheist quotes "So help me God" as not being in the oath of office, that somehow we are claiming the goverment as atheistic. AGAIN, BULLSHIT.
It merely means, that the individual in office who takes the oath does not have to swear to Jesus, or Allah, or Yahwey or Richard Dawkins. The "So help me(incert deity here)" is voluntary, NOT MANDITORY.
When our first Muslim Senator was ellected he swore in on a Quran, PREVIOUSLY OWNED BY THOMAS JEFFERSON, BTW!
And all over the news when he did that, there were clips of hypocriticall Christians wanting to force this guy to swear on a Christian bible. WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO FREEDOM OF RELIGION?
Oh, so it only applies to Christians?
I am so glad the founders valued independance and individuality otherwise the pricks who wanted to force a Muslim to swear on a Christian bible would have atheists swear to Jesus too.
In conclusion, weither it be a school, or courtroom or Capital Hill those have to be free from favortism or persicution for all of us, the Christian, Jew, Muslim and yes, even us kitten barbaquers, so that we all can be free outside these neutral institutions to practice or believe what we want. Independance comes with the responsibility that it is not anyone's right to use goverment to monopolize what it means to be a citizen.
SO WILL YOU FUNDIE CHRISTIANS STOP ACCUSING US OF PERSICUTION WHEN ALL WE WANT IS A NEUTRAL GOVERMENT!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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And then you get pricks going on about ow America is a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values and yet who still take pride in the founding fathers.
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Yep, I got a fundy on a newspaper fourm so pissed that he denounced Jefferson. WHAT A FUCKING LOSER! To stupid that Jeffersons ideas that ended up in the First Amendment protect him as well.
"GOD BWESS MERKA" FUCK JEFFERSON!
It really boils Fundy buttons when we quote non-Christian who helped write our Constition.
Jefferson denied the supernatural death and birth of Jesus. GET OVER IT CHRISTIANS!
The Constitution is not for Christian use only. Christians are not the only citizens in this country. FREEDOM, IT'S NOT JUST FOR CHRISTIANS ANYMORE!
THANK YOU TOMMY J! YOU DA MAN!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Although not a founder this next quote shows the continuing ignorance of most of the nation's citizens.
"I distrust what God believers say what God wants because it useually coinsides with their disires" Susan B. Anthony.
Only later to be embossed on a coin with "In God We Trust".
Now, weither she was religious herself is NOT why she said that. She feared, and rightfully so, goverment law being based on the religious wishes of others. People back then read the bible and rightly or wrongly as a majority used it to deny women the right to vote.
ANYONE SEE THE "TRUE SCOTSMAN" comming?
Let me save the apologists the time.
Christian says, "They were not true Christians"
Is avoiding the FACT that a human has picked up a bible, read what they wanted to read out of it, and based public law on it. FACT!
And all it takes to distroy the Constitution is people turning it into a license to make their religious law public law. Fortunatly for Susan, and future women she had the tool of "Checks and balances" that allowed that court to say to Bigoted sexist people claiming divine right, "Hey, dispite your majority, your religious interpretation cannot be used to deny her the right to vote".
It is the same principle that prevents atheists from using goveremnt to force the doors shut on churchs. It is the same principle that prevents people like Pat Robertson using goverment force to shut sites like this one down.
Christians, NOT ALL, but far too many make the false assumption that only Jesus is allowed to interpret the constitution and anyone else born here is just a guest.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Hang on Jesus wasn't born in America.
Yea, and Jesus did such a swell job stoping the fake believers from invading the continent, commiting genocide of Native Americans and slavery of blacks. Humn, me thinks his dad loves free will so much even sits by and does nothing about it just so the "real" Christians can pound clichis on the rest of us who are mere guests.
AHEAD OF YOU.......No one should blame Christians today for the horrible behavior of those in the past. On the other hand, the God of Jesus says that we suffer today because of our alleged first parents Adam and Eve.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
A Middle Eastern carpenter probably couldn't even get a visa these days.
~~~
BPS Inspector: Citizenship?
JC: Palestinian.
PBSI: *scribble scribble* Occupation?
JC: Motivational speaker.
BPSI: *scribble scribble* Are you carrying any funds on you?
JC: No. I have a great story about rich men, camels and sewing implements. You see, it will be easi --
BPSI: Where are you planning to stay?
JC: Wherever someone puts me up.
BPSI: I see. *stamps I-94 with DENIED ENTRY TO COUNTRY*
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
Haha!!
Atheist Books
"If Men are so wicked as we now see them with Religion what would they be if without it?" - Benjamin Franklin
"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men." - Benjamin Franklin"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble." - Benjamin Franklin
"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man." -Thomas Jefferson
"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferson
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferson
I don't know about the other quotes, but the second one very clearly implies that the author was on their death bed when they wrote it. So I doubt Dr. Franklin was in his best state of mind at the time.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
The best is the Muslims and media claiming Jefferson was a Muslim because he owned a copy of the Koran. Oh the irony, here is there real reason Jefferson owned a Koran:
http://thehillchronicles.com/?p=328
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Ben was out of his gourd for the last several years of his life. It got so bad that he was constantly escorted by people to make sure he didn't let slip out any confidential secrets from our government. So...it wasn't his fault. Poor guy.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Jefferson was the ultimate rational thinker, the ultimate anti-dogma thinker. This is why he appears to have two opinions on Christianity. He would read events from the bible and say they are false and unbelievable, but he could also take teachings of Jesus and create the Jefferson Bible. He was trying to create narrative that included the moral teachings without forcing on to believe in the supernatural events of the bible.
So he saw the value in the moral teachings of the bible, perhaps he saw some value in organized religion. He also saw the abuses of religion and the ridiculousness in believing in the supernatural events of the bible. Being a Deist was the most intellectually honest position to take before Darwin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
The founders were Masons with few exceptions. This is a Mason nation. Jefferson is unconfimed as one but he certainly had little regard for the inspiration of the Bible.
Though I'm sure I can google this or something easily, I will post in this thread so that I may find it easily (from my menu) for future reference. And of course, thanks DG.
Furthermore, what if we weren't so lucky as to be enjoying that help of the 'Founding Fathers' atheistic wisdom as we do today ? I hate to imagine.
AND, If this land had not been available, what would be, this day? I AM a semi proud american, but I have a real dislike of the word "Patriotism".
Shit , I forgot what I was really going to say? .... I could rant a long while .... ahhhh, "religion is bunk and eat the rich", will do for now.
Yeah semi proud .... One of MY bands I named >Thomas Jefferson< and another was Einstein
Thanks largely to my great wonderful cool dad's teaching wisdom .... Yeah, I AM way lucky .... just broke, horny, old, dumb and ugly .... ( I've been known to exaggerate, but write only my truth ) LOL and WTF's the problem .... 
God fucking damn it, have you not found fucking Jesus Christ Buddha
Damn me, that is NOT funny 
Atheism Books.
Thank you very much for posting this reply to an original posting by a person who obviously not only took one of those quotes out of context, but also completely missed the point of the quotes entirely. Jefferson was not a believer in Christianity, only, as he has clearly stated on many occasions, that was a firm believer in the teachings that Jesus preached; teachings, mind you, that were around for centuries before the man Jesus (whose actual existence has never been presented with a single shred of actual proof) ever supposedly walked the Earth.
In fact, Jefferson went so write his own bible. He basically took out all the "miracles" and all the instances where Jesus was professed as being more than human (son of god, savior, messiah, etc), and created a book filled with nothing but the moral teachings remaining. In fact, I believe (though I may be wrong about the exact wording here) that he entitled the "bible", The Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
I love all these quotes, but to be thorough I've been trying to find the context of the 'lighthouse' quote. I haven't been able to find that...any suggestions?
Knox Said:
"If Men are so wicked as we now see them with Religion what would they be if without it?" - Benjamin Franklin
"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men." - Benjamin Franklin"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble." - Benjamin Franklin
"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man." -Thomas Jefferson
"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferson
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferso
One thing people need to understand about Thomas Jefferson is that he loved the teaching of MORALITY that Jesus Christ taught. He loved the idea of peace, loving your fellow man, and helping those in most need of help. He did NOT however, believ in e Jesus' claims of divinity, nor the miracles he supposedly performed. He even edited the bible, removing Jesus' claims to divinity and his miracles, and put out a new version called the good and moral teaching of Jesus Christ. Jefferson was an atheist and freethinker, anyone who thinks otherwise does not know history.
I have that game on the PS3. > >
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Here's a good one.
“Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.”- The great revolutionary Thomas Paine
It was a fun game.
These threads keep getting brought back from the dead though, again and again. It seems to be certain ones, and they are brought back often by unregistered users.
I'm assuming there are links to these somewhere out there on the interwebs.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Tossing in a few more, though the thread seems to have gone astray .
“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”
“Mankind are governed more by their feelings than by reason.” -Samuel Adams.I don't see a problem with someone posting to an old thread to bring it back to life as long as it is relevant to what is being discussed in the thread.
But, I do see a problem with derailing a thread like you've done by inserting a lame youtube video and your complaint about "dead" threads being brought back to the surface.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
The best feature of this site is that people can comment on 3 year old topics. Many sites remove old content, we work hard to maintain it all. A thread with quotes from the founding fathers is an example of one that will remain relevant for many years. I'm with you aiia, let's not fret over posts brought back from the dead ESPECIALLY when the comment is relevant.
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Again, when taken into CONTEXT off their criticisms combined with NO MENTION OF JESUS in the Constitution, COMBINED WITH "NO RELIGIOUS TEST", no one is disputing the protection of freedom of religion as protected by the First Amendment.
BUT because the diversity of thought on religion, they decided that YOU, not them, were the one to decide on that issue and that THEY would not play favorites or chose sides.
IF they intended on a Jesus run government, then it would have been wise for them to mention him by name in the Constitution. It WAS NOT a failure or oversight that Christianity was not mentioned.
Believing that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptists 1802
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. " Thomas Jefferson letter to John Adams, April 11th 1823
"If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally, that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God." Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13 1814
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog