Jesus Is NOT God [Trollville]
Offline For people who are supposed to be atheists, you people are far from that. The "atheists" on this website seem to be mostly anti-Jesus -- this is NOT atheism.
From the response I've gotten so far, I have found that most people here find God synonymous with Jesus, something you've apparently been brainwashed into thinking.
Let me run something by you which may blow the minds of some people so brainwashed.
I am a strong believer in God. I am as convinced that God exists as I am convinced that the keyboard I'm typing on exists. Yet, I absolutely do NOT believe in Jesus.
Jesus, to the best of my knowledge, was a Jew who died an unfortunate death, like many others in his time. He's dead, he never rose, we will not rise, and he has nothing more to do with God than any one of us. How did anyone ever manage to convince you people that a mere human was somehow a God? It's truly mind-boggling! You people are fighting a "god" that never existed (as a god).
Let me elaborate, especially for those who apparently have no concept whatsoever of what God is supposed to be.
"In the Beginning God created heaven and earth." This first statement in Genesis, incidentally, coincides precisely with what scientists believe about the Big Bang. In the beginning, this pinpoint of something or other exploded and expanded into our universe. The major difference being that scientists claim, understandably so, that we cannot know what came before the big bang, since nature must have been different then, and whatever telltale signs of what came beforehand must have been wiped out in that cataclysmic event.
And they are absolutely right.
The Bible says that the "big bang" (it doesn't call it that but it describes something extremely similar) was the moment of creation, before which nothing existed, something scientists can neither verify nor deny. What's interesting is that the Bible, which was written thousands of years ago, actually describes the big bang thousands of years before scientists realized that this is how our universe began. There are books based on Genesis, written hundreds of years ago, which expound on Genesis and actually describe in far more detail the "big bang" -- deduced from the Bible.
If the Bible was not written by God, this Creation thing is a pretty damn good guess of how it all began.
Now, about Jesus.
Anything that did not exist before that moment of Creation cannot possibly be God. Jesus came years later -- he is not and cannot be God. Something or someone that was created or born -- cannot be God! Anything that came after Creation is part of God's creation -- nothing else!
So if you people have something against Jesus, and claim he is not God, and claim that you will not go to hell if you don't believe in him -- congratulations!!! You're absolutely right! It's about time you brainwashed people realized this.
But when you say there is no God, when you look at a computer and realize that it had to be manufactured by someone, yet you look at a world far more complex than a computer and claim that no one created it's complexity -- you're a bunch of absolute morons! No, not necessarily sacrilegious -- just moronic fools! You have to have to have a shred of brains to honestly be called sacrilegious.
To understand the complexities of this world and deny God (remember, I'm not talking about Jesus now) is just absolute stupidity!!!
But guess what? It's your choice to believe whatever you want. And you know who gave you that choice? God! He called it "free will." Denying the IRS exists does not absolve you of paying taxes. It only means you'll be paying more heavily when it all catches up to you.
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Well, at least you've finally posted your own rambling thoughts as opposed to those of another.
I certainly do not believe that Jesus is synonymous with god. However, I've come across quite a few Christians who do. I suppose you're right, it is brainwashing to think Jesus and god are the same.
You believe in god? Good for you. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want. As long as those beliefs don't infringe upon my rights or the rights of others.
Creation is the worst 'guess' as to how this world started. I have yet to see any supernatural evidence of creation.
You're quite right, we do have a choice to believe in what we want. And it's through critical thinking and observation and not god, that I've come to my train of thought.
Ah yes, those wonderful threats of the 'afterlife'. It's rather difficult to threaten me with hell. I see no reason to believe in hell.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
This argument all over again....
Who made God? Creation needs a creator therefore so does God. Anything that could create the universe must be FAR more complex. I don't understand why no one seems to see the flaw in this argument. The fact that you have a computer in front of you is thanks to the person who invented the computer and the workers at the computer plant that put it together. God did not build it, put it in a box, slap on a stamp and send it to you. If you want to believe God is infinite, then why can't the universe simply be infinite? The IRS proves to me that it exists. You want to equate the concept of a higher power to a very real part of our government? I'm friends with IRS employees. I've never had a beer with one of God's little helper angels. How can you not look around and NOT think there must be no God. Go to a country ravaged by a famine. What the hell... this strikes you a divinely inspired? If you believe God gave us free will, you must also assume he gave us all the ability to reason. Why not use it?!
Jesus IS God to Christians. So what if you don't believe that? Many people do. ... just not atheists. You're right being "anti-Jesus" isn't atheism. You can't be against a person you either don't believe existed, or simply think was just some guy who is already dead. You think theists who believe in Jesus are "brainwashed". Atheists think the same thing about all theists. I don't hate Jesus. I promise.
“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics.”
-Christopher Hitchens
"I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
You know what.... I don't speak for all atheists. I take it back. I think that about theists.
Any atheists out there who disagree.. my bad.
“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics.”
-Christopher Hitchens
"I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
You do realize that anyone who believes in Jesus would call you stupid, don't you?
Most of the people on this site are not anti-jesus or anti-god. There are a fair number that are anti-religion, but that is another story. To many here, the word 'god' is similar to saying 'kmprq'. It means nothing to them at all. Your impression is wrong.
The 'big bang' or any interpretation of it is not described in the bible and if you do believe that I would suspect you do not believe in the bible so much as your own personal interpretation of it. This is something I have seen time and time again as theists try to explain the bible. No one believes the same thing because no interprets it the same way. Any book is open to interpretation, but it is the application of faith based on individual interpretation that is a problem. Entire religions are based on one person's or a small group's interpretation. I doubt I need to to further with this since I think you can figure out for yourself why this creates problems.
As far as it being a pretty good explanation for how things began, well, no it really isn't. If it was a good explanation, there would not be two versions of it in the bible and the explanation would have been much more clear than it is. Saying 'god said "let there be light" isn't an adequate explanation for the sun, the earth, the galaxy, the planet rotations, etc., etc., etc. What you are alluding to is these stories (yes, they are just stories) being handed down for generations before being written in the bible. Quite honestly, they sound more like something a first grader would write to explain existence. Thanks to science we know so much more now and the stories are merely amusing myths.
Clarification: When I speak of the Bible I speak ONLY of the Old Testament -- The Five Books of Moses. The new testament, to me, is totally irrelevant.
You only believe half of what god wrote, then?
If god takes life he's an indian giver
That really doesn't help your point though. The Bible is a book that consists of two parts. When you say the "Bible".... we assume you mean... the Bible. If you can easily cast off the NT, why can't others simply cast off both? Nothing in the OT makes it more plausible than the NT. I'm still not following your logic here at all.
“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics.”
-Christopher Hitchens
"I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
This is a fallacy called a "strawman argument", most atheists are not 'anti-jesus', they merely lack belief in a god. Some atheists argue against the existance of jesus but that does not define atheism.
Again this is the strawman fallacy.
Wisdom does not seem to be what you are expousing.
I am sad to see you put so much weight in the ultimate non-answer.
Again, the strawman fallacy. Jeez. Many of us live in the United States where christianity is the majority, hence the discussions about christ. If I were in the middle east I would discuss Muhammed and Islam, the simple fact is I lack belief in all gods and god-men.
This is the worst explanation I have ever heard. The Raelians who believe aliens seeded life on earth have a more resonable take on creation than the bible does and I think they are bat-shit crazy.
Is the only argument formula you know the strawman fallacy?
Beautiful ad hominems, maybe you need to read about how to handle yourself in proper debate in order to make your arguments more effective.
....and so we end with the most flawed argument of all, Pascal's Wager, please do yourself a favor and look it up.
You have made very poor arguments in this diatribe that have been refuted all over the web and this site a billion times. You are going to believe in magic as the reason for everything no matter how poor your arguments are, and that is very sad.
I do believe this is the most anti-Jesus line of shit I have read in any thread in this forum.
I am truely happy that you are convinced there is a God. However, If you expect to be listened to just state your point. I personally am not concerned with your church affiliation and to slam anyone whose belief in God differs from your belief is anti-GOD. If you do not like the use of the name Jesus than don’t use it! If someone’s response references the Christian Bible than inform the author that is not your opinion. But to insult the majority of atheist and theist in this forum is simply stupid. The only point that I see is that you are anti-Jesus, and quite frankly I do not need that kind of support when we theist should be supporting the belief in GOD. I really don’t care what name you give God.
Wait so you only believe in the Old Testament?
Good luck doing all the gruesome stuff in there, murder, rape etc..
or have you controrted Gods word to fit your own personal beliefs? tsk tsk
Can't you be both?
Why do people have this idiotic notion that out of the thousands of words a person can be described with, that one certian word defines the whole property of a person (*Cough*bubblehead).
And why the hell is it Atheism/Theism (now). I'm an atheist, SO FUCKING WHAT! I'm other things too.
Why do people make such a big deal of atheism/theism, instead of other things, like the specific ideologies of a person?
I'm not anti-Jesus I just don't believe in God.
Next pointless rambling plz.
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I realize you're the moderator here but you don't moderate logic and you certainly don't do logic any justice. You pompously throw out these directives as if you're word is some sort of law. I don't think YOU even know what the hell you're talking about. To answer almost every argument with a single phrase ("strawman argument"
you have to be seriously lacking in facts and reasoning abilities. Why don't you do YOURSELF a favor and brush up (or maybe just learn, I'm not sure you have much to start with) on the ability to properly respond to an argument so you can at least sound intelligent. So far you've come off like a self-important pretentious ignoramus and answered nothing.
You only believe in the five books written (or perhaps not written) by Moses? What kind of theology is that? Are you still waiting for God's son to come and rescue you?
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Linkboy, the "directives" are logical fallacies and you do need to do some homework on them. BGH called each of them correctly and he very much knows what he is talking about.
So far you've come off like a self-important pretentious ignoramus and asked nothing.
Side note: I will warn you to review the forum rules. BGH may be a moderator, but that has nothing to do with his post. Please direct your responses to his statements and not his status on this site.
Do you even know what a 'strawman argument' is? I suggest you look it up before you start throwing ad homs at BGH. He was right on target and you are not.
While we're at it, people here have asked you questions that you have not responded to. Instead of arbitrarily attacking people, why don't you reply to what's been written.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
It's nice of you to kiss up to him, but that doesn't really do it for me. Some logical answers would help. Just agreeing with his nonesense is -- well, 2 time zero still doen't add up to much.
Most of your questions were answered in my original message, before you even asked them. Leave your biases aside and try some honest reading comprehension.LOL! Please note that I had already responded earlier. You have not responded back so I assume I win.
I was merely stating the forum rules. You have been warned once already about violating rules. You may consider the above your second warning.
No your questions were not answered in your original post. Go back and read again.
Your ad hom attacks are senseless. Your also becoming a bit of a troll.
That being said, you clearly have no argument. You've done nothing but attack other people and have displayed neither reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
You have clearly not made yourself familiar with the rules like I suggested.
You started this thread with antagonism and continued with the same.
You have been given a chance to discuss and you chose otherwise.
Jesus isn't God. Great.
God isn't God either. Not until you theist types prove he at least exists.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
it really doesn't matter if you think i'm an atheist or not. it's just a label, something that theists seem fond of. that must be a side effect of the need for order, meaning and purpose. the fact remains that neither god nor jesus ever existed. religion is still a lie, no matter what clever term you choose for non-believers, and regardless of the self-defeating analogies you conceive in an attempt define us and make you feel better about yourself.
www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens
By the way to all who were involved in this thread, Linkboy probably will not return.