Ebini Writes to BE
Offline Hey ebini23,
I'm Rook Hawkins. I'm a friend of Dennis and sometimes he gets overcome with e-mails so I help out answering them for him from time to time. He will probably reply if he hasn't done so already.
You stated, as if you had some authority, "the word of God that never contradicts" The problem here is that you're lying. You may not even realize it's a lie, because you've been falsely lead to believe that the Bible is inerrant (per 2 Timothy 3:16, etc...) but the sad truth is that your Bible is stacked so full of contradictions, errors and fallacies that Apologists aren't even defending them all. Here's a good example:
Here are some MAJOR problems with Galatians and Acts:
- Galatians states that Paul didn't talk to anybody about his conversion for THREE YEARS during his time in Damascus and outlining regions. (Galatians 1:17) Yet in Acts, Ananias and the other disciples of Jesus were AT Damascus, healed Paul's sight, and baptized him. A few days later, he was PREACHING about the Lord. (Acts 9:17-20)
- In Galatians Paul didn't SEE a Disciple/Apostle for THREE YEARS – until he saw Peter and James (That's the ONLY TWO) in Jerusalem after those three years. (Gal. 1:18-19) In Acts, however, Paul spent a few days with many disciples in Jerusalem and Damascus (The Bible states "ALL the Apostles" – Acts 9:19)
- Paul fled at once (RSV) to Arabia and THEN to Damascus in Galatians (Gal. 1:17), where in Acts, Paul had been on his way TO Damascus (Acts 9:3) then started to preach there at long accord (Acts 9:19-26) until the Jews there threatened to kill him and then he fled to Jerusalem after many days (Acts 9:25-26).
- In Paul's out words, none but Peter who stayed with him, and James were in Jerusalem. Yet in Acts, ALL the Apostles were there – and were not just there but were afraid of him. This was not the case in Galatians.
- Paul says after 15 days he left for the regions of Syria and Cilicia (Gal. 1:21) where in Acts, by somebody else's accord, upon the attempts to kill him by the Greeks, Paul was smuggled out to Caesarea – and from there Tarsus.
- After 14 YEARS in the regions of Syria and Cilicia, Paul returned to Jerusalem with Barnabas and Titus. (Gal. 2:1) but in Acts, Barnabas leaves from Antioch to Tarsus to find Paul, brought him back to Antioch for a whole YEAR. (Acts 11:25-16)
- In Galatians, Paul took TITUS to Jerusalem (Gal. 2:1), where in Acts, Paul took Mark, whose surname was John. (Acts 12:25)
And shall I remind you of the fact that Acts has Jesus being hung, not crucified? They are not the same thing. I can go into this at length if you really want to debate me on this subject. I doubt you do.
You state further, "read the Bible again". Perhaps you should at least read it once so you better have a leg to stand on? I can read the Bible in Greek. Can you? I have the Nestle-Aland 27th Addition. Do you? I doubt it. So until you can do all the things that I can do, and have read all the books that I have, please don't pressume to know as much or more then I do. You have no authority here.
You make an additional assumption when you state, "Please give your heart for the creator of you". First and foremost, you assume that Dennis, nor I were ever Christian. I can't speak for Dennis, but I was studying to becvome a priest. As for most of the people who are atheists that I have ever met, have usually started out as strong-minded Christians. It's after studying and reading your Bible that people leave the faith behind, and see it for what it truely is: Bollucks.
And for your signature, if such a verse could be worse, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: Prov. 1:7 " If fearing something brings you wisdom, then should I fear an attack from little green men from Mars to gain perspective on little Green men from Mars? Such is your logic. That one should pressume that a God exists and fear it before you have evidence to prove it. So, in that case, you should also fear Unicorns, Satyrs and Dragons for they are also mentioned in your Bible. You should fear them to gain wisdom.
Perhaps, the Bible would have some more respectable qualities to it, had the verse actually said, "Studying and Learning is the beginning of Wisdom." Unfortunately, it uses fear as a catalyst to coax you into belief. Shame on your book of lies.
Have a nice day,
Rook Hawkins
www.rationalresponders.com
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
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He replied:
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
My reply:
You are assuming the very case in point, Ebini. You have to first prove3 God in order to use God as an example of any sort. You are using what is called circular reasoning. It's similar to say, "The Koran is true because the Koran says it's True." You can't use the very thing you are trying to prove to prove it's existence.
Have you been paying attention? You have not yet even answered the contradiction I posed to you. Do you not even care that there are errors and contradictions in your supposed perfect book?
What are you talking about? You'd rather believe in mythical creatures like dragons and unicorns then in Gravity and Motion? Do you realize how completely ignorant you sound right now?
YES! I talk with Authority that my SNARFWIDGET gave me! - This is exactly how incredulous you sound to me right now.
Again, more circular reasoning. You trust the Bible because the Bible says so. Circular.
This proves nothing, when you can't even understand a simple logical fallacy such as circular reasoning. You probably don't even know why it's absurd. And you may be within the top 5%, but that doesn't mean you aren't a gullible ignorant fool. There are plenty of people who have high IQ's but don't know the first thing about rational thought. You can't even debate right, I posed a contradiction after you claimed the Bible was perfect. You don't even have the honesty enough to admit you were wrong. Instead you cling to your foolish notions and hold on for dear life, while completely ignoring the fact that you were so easily shown to be incorrect. This by all accounts makes you a dishonest fool. I know you don't like being one of those...do you?
Once more, you completely ignore the evidence that the Bible contradics itself. If you claim the Bible is perfect, show me how these contradictions don't exist. Show me...don't TELL me. Prove it. I'll list them again.
(lists the same contradictions over for him - Ed)
Now before you go off on another ridiculous "pwayze da lard" rant, why don't you stick to the topic and prove to me these Contradictions don't exist. Or, perhaps you'll be a coward and dodge the point again? I eagerly await your reply.
The best,
Rook Hawkins
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
I know the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists and love him (it?) because of all the wonderful pasta dinners I ate and I want to go to the Heaven that includes a beer volcano and stripper factory. I would rather believe that 2 + 2 = 7 and that "cat" is spelled K-A-T and that pouring ice cream into computerrs makes them work better than to believe in that foolish knowledge that 2 +2 =4, and "cat" is spelled "C-A-T" and that pouring ice cream into computers is a really bad idea unless you don't want to have that particular computer anymore.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
If supercooling your computer with ice cream didn't work for you, it is mostly likely because you failed to use the one true ice-cream flavor. (There is quite some difference of opinion on what that is though; you may need to just try them all.)
I used Vanilla as all true Icecreamintocomputerists do. Only infidels that are really following Satan use chocolate, rocky road, butter pecan, etc. (just like all true Christians are Baptists - and Catholics, Methodists, etc are all hellbound. Just for those of us [theists] who wouldn't get the analogy otherwise.)
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
I think Ebini has a drinking problem....shhhhh dont tell
First, I will start this comment by complementing you on how well you handle yourself on these forums. Sorry about how this quote looks, for some reason my computer doesn't allow me to use the quote feature.
Rook Hawkins wrote
1. Galatians states that Paul didn't talk to anybody about his conversion for THREE YEARS during his time in Damascus and outlining regions. (Galatians 1:17) Yet in Acts, Ananias and the other disciples of Jesus were AT Damascus, healed Paul's sight, and baptized him. A few days later, he was PREACHING about the Lord. (Acts 9:17-20)Galatians 1:16,17 "To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus." Could you please clarify where it says that he did not talk of his conversion for three years. He could be talking of his "baptism", not of preaching Jesus. As in Acts 9:20 "And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God."
I will post more later, but I don't have the time right now to finish this. I'm looking forward to your response to this.
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. As for your question, the answer is in the passage you quote. "I confered not with flesh or blood for three years..." He didn't speak or discuss anything with anybody for three years until he went to Jerusalem and met with peter.
The Greek for this passage is: "αποκαλυψαι τον υιον αυτου εν εμοι ινα ευαγγελιζωμαι αυτον εν τοις εθνεσιν ευθεως ου προσανεθεμην σαρκι και αιματι. ουδε ανηλθον εις ιεροσολυμα προς τους προ εμου αποστολους αλλα απηλθον εις αραβιαν και παλιν υπεστρεψα εις δαμασκον"
In this, the word "preach" or "spread the good news" is ευαγγελιζωμαι or "euanggelize" which is really "evangelize" as you may know it. Where Paul is speaking of spreading the news to the gentiles, "that I might preach him among the heathen" this is where that word is specifically used. The word that we need to look at, however, is the word προσανεθεμην(Prosanatithemi) which has an entirely different meaning.
It literally means "to confer" or "conference" with. When Paul states he did not confer with anybody, he means that he literally did not discuss anything with anybody. Had he wanted to say something else, like what you suggest he might have meant, he would have used the word "euanggelize" instead of "prosanatithemi."
Hope that helps.
The best,
Rook
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
Could you please give a references for your understanding... in other words could you please answer this question providing adequate authorities... "why should I take you understanding above anyone elses?"
The NIV gives the following translation... Gal 1:15-17
But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
This clearly does not provide the contradiction you claim. Paul is saying that his appointment to be an apostle was from God and he did not seek confirmation from any man.
humbly,
James