your soul rules
Offline Growing up I never understood the hype of "the bible" and why everyone had to get dressed up to read it on Sunday morning. Well, that was it, so one night 2 years ago I closed my eyes and said, alright god, if your there, and jesus is your son and all of this stuff is true.. show me something, give me something.....that lasted about 4 months, I would say that prayer maybe 4 times out of a 6 month period of time. Nothing......got nothing...no response, no bells no whistles..no dancing midgets in clown suits....
yeah then before I could shake a stick at a lepercaun. It happened. "It" was amazing. I cant explain this to you in any language we speak to each other on earth, but, lets just say that if your ask him to reveal himself and pry open your heart just a little bit. He will be thier, and theres no denying something like that.
The bible...well if you were like me, none of that stuff made sense, and if you were proactive in you non-faith you would casually mock other non-beleivers in certain conversations explaining why its "hypocritical"
Well heres the key fellas, read that book without doubt in your heart, without looking for mistakes and contradictions. read that book AFTER he reveals himself to you. It will make a lot more sense after that. At least thats what worked in my life, everyones different.
Every page in the Bible is true, I cant deny how much he loves me. (sorry I usta be a "hardass"
but he changed the way I see everything now. Jesus made it possible. He loves you bro, just ask him, whats the worst that could happen?
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If I had $1 for every christian that came on this site and said something like "all you need to do is ask God to reveal himself to you" ...
I have, and no god has answered. I'd love to have some sort of revalation, but none are comming.
Come again?
Oh, I did read the book without doubt when I was a christian. Regardless, your statement begs the question. If I'm reading without being skeptical, am I really going to find flaws? Of course it will all make sense if I turn off my mind!
Sorry, but you're either lying, delusional, or ignorant. There are errors in the bible. Read some of the threads in this forum.
Pascal's wager sucks.
Been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt that said I did it. I'm not going to live forever. I have a life you know, and only one of them. There's no point in sitting on my ass hoping for a sign for another 50 years only to come up empty and with nothing left to do as I waste away.
What little of the bible I have read makes sense in the linguistic sense of the word, it just contradicts itself and lies. That's why I discard it.
Can't do it. Might as well ask me to search for santa claus without doubt in my heart. The time when I didn't go so far as to doubt is a good two decades behind me now. I'm not a child anymore, and I can't go back in time to when I was to go over the same failed experiment one more time in the hopes that something would happen differently. Even if I were inclined to, and I'm not.
Now that I can do. As soon as god reveals itself to me, I'll follow the text said god tells me to follow.
Nothing. That's whats happened all my life. Now how about we reverse the situation. How about we look at why you believe in something that you can't prove? Why you think there is a god when there's absolutely no indication of one existing or needing to exist?
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I see, well bro, I hope that you keep asking because his word is good, and its impossible for God to lie.
Why do I beleive? Well my mind was pretty carnal so I needed something huge, not everyone gets a huge revelation, but imagine for one second the God who created you makes a pencil fall off a table to prove his existence.... would that be enough for people? probably not but we must understand something were dealing with gaining faith here. Only you and God joined together in a relationship make that possible, if he's calling and no one is picking up on the other end....thinkl about....you guys must remain sensitive to his communication, and if your not sure if its him,,,ASK HIM! trust me bro your not the only "one" that knows you.
If the kind of faith god wants is the kind extended to friends and family, then he has to meet the same basic requirements that friends and family do. First and foremost: their existance.
And like I said in my last post, I was open to the idea of an all powerful being as a child. I never believed in one, but I was open to the possibility. But as the same fallacious arguments have been presented to me over and over it became clear that many people don't have any idea of what their god is supposed to be. Those that do have an idea are inconsistant, liars, or use fallacious reasoning(such as circular logic). It's obvious to me that man cannot prove god exists. Therefore only god can.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Well heres the key fellas, read that book without doubt in your heart, without looking for mistakes and contradictions. read that book AFTER he reveals himself to you. It will make a lot more sense after that. At least thats what worked in my life, everyones different.
Can't do it mate. That's a logical fallacy. You are attempting to derive your conclusion from your premise while simaltaneously deriving your premise from your conclusion. It just doesn't work.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Every page? Really? I never thought about that.
The pages about unicorns are true? The pages about marking and keeping slaves are true? The pages where jesus says to hate your family are true? The pages where god is vindictful, hateful, arrogant and jealous are true? The pages with subjugation of women are true? If that is the case, I am sure glad I DON'T believe it.
Jeremy has obviously never read the bible.
If a god exists and wants to reveal itself, then fine. But, how can I tryi to talk to someone I don't believe in? I can't allow that level of cognitive dissonance.
Claiming you were "carnal" (i.e. a normal human) doesn't win any points with me. I don't believe in the concept of sin. Things like lust are natural, and necessary for human reproduction.
What!? Are you serious? No a pencil falling (in a gravitational field) would never be enough proof. Are we dealing with gaining faith, or being delusional? But I repeat myself.
How do I remain sensitive to its communication? Turn my mind off, and interpret any strange coincidence as proof of a god? If the christian god exists, it already knows what would convince me, so I shouldn't need to be "sensitive" to its communication.
Once again I can't try to ask a question of something I don't believe exists. That's begging the question. If I'm truly trying to talk to a god, don't I already believe it exists?
1st thing should reconsider, stop listening to other people explain there faith, or try to define God. Man will fail you, even the word of God says that.
sometimes when I pray in tounges, it feels like im explaining things out loud perfectly. but that language or utterance is not for man.
anyways point is. dont listen to people. listen to your heart first.
you need to step out of your comfort zone. I know its easy to sit back and say, Im not going to talk to myself in the dark, thats pointless. yeah well once you relize that your flesh will never satisfy you, then and only then you may look outside your box.
look hard enough and long enough and you'll never be same. he loves you bro, step out in faith..
Why don't you read "The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" and assume it to be true? His Noodly Appendage is reaching for you.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Oh Jerremy,
Please respond to this, I would love to hear your explanation.
Should I stop listening to you, too?
I don't need a god to tell me than humans fuck up.
It may feel that way, but that doesn't mean it is that way.
Who is it for?
My heart pumps blood. I don't think it has anything to say.
Uh...who's talking to themselves in the dark? Whose staying in their "comfort zone"? What are you trying to say?
My flesh? You mean sexual things? Yeah...of course my life is more than that. What box do I need to look out of?
Step out in faith? Have you read any of my previous posts here? I used to be a christian!
Anyway, I avoid using faith as much as I can. It's not a virtue to believe in things there's not evidence or justification for.
Well, that was it, so one night 2 years ago I closed my eyes and said, alright god, if your there, and jesus is your son and all of this stuff is true.. show me something, give me something.....that lasted about 4 months, I would say that prayer maybe 4 times out of a 6 month period of time. Nothing......got nothing...no response, no bells no whistles..no dancing midgets in clown suits....
i've done the same. nothing ever happened, so i basically said "you know what, why the fuck am i doing this anyway, nothings happening" and since then rejected the idea of a god.
still, nothings happened.
yeah then before I could shake a stick at a lepercaun. It happened. "It" was amazing. I cant explain this to you in any language we speak to each other on earth, but, lets just say that if your ask him to reveal himself and pry open your heart just a little bit. He will be thier, and theres no denying something like that.
on the worst night of my life i cried into my pillow and prayed that god was there and he hears me and for him to show me that hes there and doing that. this is while i was an atheist. nothing happened. so im still an atheist. i no longer talk to imaginary superhumans.
Well heres the key fellas, read that book without doubt in your heart, without looking for mistakes and contradictions. read that book AFTER he reveals himself to you. It will make a lot more sense after that. At least thats what worked in my life, everyones different.
I read the bible when i was a christian. i went to a bible study every week and spent months there going over all the verses of john, acts, and revelation. it didn't help anything. it just made me lose my faith more because it sounds like a fairy tale. i still go to that same bible study every week. nothing's changed.
Every page in the Bible is true, I cant deny how much he loves me. (sorry I usta be a "hardass"
but he changed the way I see everything now.
prove it. i can prove that some pages of the bible are contradictory therefore false. you have no evidence that he loves you other than the bible, which has no outside evidence to back it up.
Jesus made it possible. He loves you bro, just ask him, whats the worst that could happen?
been there, done that. from the results, i guess jesus doesn't love me that much
There is a page about unicorns in the Bible? Please tell me where to find it.
My heart just goes "lub dup lub dup lub dup". I think I'm doing it wrong.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
Numbers 23
23:22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Psalm 92
92:10 But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
Deuteronomy 33
33:17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
The good old King James translation. Note the word old. Only by going to the KJ are able to produce unicorns. You might find that if you actually checked the hebrew ox or wild ox is the correct translation. I don't suppose there is any chance you already knew this?
No, I do not read hebrew, greek, nor aramaic.
The majority of christians in this country follow the KJV or similar translation. That is what I refer to when speaking to these christians. I am sorry your text does not reflect the same translation. Maybe you should petition the publishing companies and have this changed, until then I will continue to use this translation.
Neither do I, but I'm still able to use my brain to research whether something is accurate.
Which country are you from? I'm from Australia and if you are from the USA (which I'm guessing you are) I can tell you that most Americian christians do not use the KJV. It is only the KJV that has unicorns.
the enemy LOVES this stuff...misinterpretations and suggestions..he doesnt really have that much to offer.
okok give me the scriptures and I'll see if I've studied them. Cant guarantee that i'll be able to explain it correct but I'll ask the lord to help us understand.
yeah well I hope you figure it out
you may ask yourself this, (not sure why I think your pretty tired of this)
whats different from when I claimed to be a christian, until i claimed to not believe anymore
look at the bright side, if you truly seeked him consistently and it wasnt his will for him to reveal himself yet then your doing okay, judgement cannot be passed on you today.
Although your personal revelation may be interesting, it offers no proof of god or anything supernatural. If I were to tell you that I prayed to the Flying Spaghetti Monster for a year, and it finally showed up and told me that I would be a meatball in the sky when I died, is that proof of anything? No. Please move on - Im not trying to be mean but you may as well be talking about an invisible pink unicorn, a fairy, a leprechaun, etc. Personal experiences lend credence to nothing but an interesting story.
Biochemist & Law Student
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson
I can agree with you on knowing that people can make themselves beleive anything with the proper motivation over time. Then you have to look at this, for 2 thousand years people people havent been claiming that pink unicorns are the reason they "changed thier lives forever". To the unbeleiver it must be of some importance that SO MANY PEOPLE have confessed Jesus is the son of God. Now if your still under logic that doesnt prove its still without error. But you have to stop and think..are that many people delusional or is there something that im blind to because I havent searched in my heart enough...
That many people are delusional.
"If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Bertrand Russel.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
The KJV is still widely used, but usually only by conservative and fundamentalist christians. I'm not certain that a majority of christians use it.
I also think it's wrong to assert the the bible speaks of unicorns as we imagine unicorns to be. That's clear.
The KJV is probably one of the worst translations to use in any serious study of the bible.
The enemy? Speaking of misinterpretations, what I think BGH is pointing out is the general ambiguity of the bible and its translations.
Like I said, for starters read some of the posts in the forum this thread is posted in. Why do we need to reproduce all of that here?
As far as praying about it, there's a proverb that says "When you pray, move your feet." Try doing some studying, too.
I'm not sure who or what you're addressing here. Maybe you should start using the quote function?
What are you basing this one? The bible? Wishful thinking?
BGH and Mr. Rage - I am trying to find stats to prove the KJV is the most widely used. I have found several articles that state that, but no stats. It is the most popular in the US in terms of pulpit use but I am not sure of private use...yet.
Egor, would you mind providing the proof to your statement that most American christians do not use the KJV? Thank you.
First, looking back I see that I did say "most", this is wrong. I thought that I had said "majority", but looking back I see that my memory was wrong. Anyway, below is an artical from "NC Baptist News" that supports the view that, although still widely used, the KJV is not used by the majority of christians.
This artical, from what I can gather, is from a very concervative, most likely, pro KJV group. So the fact that it admits that 75% of christians do not hear KJV from there pulpit is significant.
I'll see if I can find more.
Very nice - this is helpful! Ugh! Egor, we are all here to learn so it does not do any good to make snide comments without providing substance.
The word unicorns was translated from the Hebrew word re'em which is believed to mean one horn. Based on archeological cave paintings found, this one horned animal could be the wild ox. However, no conclusive evidence has been found to date. For the purposes of this discussion, the term wild ox is a meaningful as the term unicorns.
{edited for system shut down - I had written a lot more and it was really good too.}
I saw that article too. I am a little confused on your math to get to 75% of christians NOT hearing the KJV when the poll only included 639 participants. (?)
Apparently, the publishing community is a bit tight lipped on the whole "statistics of sales" issue.
Anyway, this is off topic so you all may resume anytime....
You are right that it was an unhelpful snide comment, and it was made in response to an unhelpful snide comment. However, that is not a justification, so I will try my best not to do it in the future.
You are right that it is a very small poll, but the 75% was in the context of the poll. You would have also note that the artical had the NIV as the top seller according to Zondervan, which is a major christian book publisher.
639 participants is not to bad. Most nation-wide polls usually have around 1000 participants. Although we don't know how they selected these 639 persons, or what the margin of error is...so these numbers could be widely wrong. But they 75% of christians not using the KJV doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Yeah...but who doesn't like to talk a little statistics? I hope the OP hasn't abandoned us.
Does it matter???
The Holy Bible is the INERRANT word of GOD!
If it says "unicorn" in ANY translation, then, unicorn it IS
period
Are you trying to say GOD is too weak to make sure the right words are in His INERRANT Holy Bible?
BLASPHEMY!!!
If it is also wild ox, that is fine too. GOD is all powerful! Are you saying He is too weak to have two different versions mean too different things?
BLASPHEMY!!!
GOD is above logic. Contradictions are within GOD's power.
If you think, after reading The Holy Bible that it says "unicorns" then indeed it DOES say unicorns. Do you think GOD is so weak he would leave ANY confusion as to the meanings of His texts?
BLASPHEMY!!!
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I do. That's why I'm an atheist.
Now you're just repeating yourself. I won't do the same.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I can explain it in the earth language called "English," although it's a bit jargony. It's called a "temporal lobe transient." Click the name for an article about how these microseizures can be induced in people under certain kinds of stress to give them religious experiences.
I don't know if they can do this yet, but I'm looking forward to the day when they can stick electrodes into your brain and make you see God. Interesting recreational and market possibilities, and would be a lot easier and more predictable than having to ask Him to reveal Himself and then prying open your heart just a little bit.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert