Rook, I don't know if you will answer this but
Posted on: August 22, 2007 - 1:21am
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Rook, I don't know if you will answer this but
How can we be certain of contradictions? I mean I was dicussing one you covered in your show about who came to the tomb first, Remember Mark 16:1, Luke 24:10, John 20:1 and Matthew 28:1, and they claimed that it wasn't a contradiction just different versions of the same story but they still claimed that there was harmony in the story. Just because they left people out. Now my other question is, where can I learn as much as you know, And what are some of the best ways to use contradictions and debate theists? because I am great with evolution but I don't know the bible quite as well as you do. I have read it numerous times but it doesn't stick as well as science does so I can't refer to it as easy.
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Way to backpedal, junior. Don't hurt yourself. Weren't you the one that said the Apostles' Creed was something that "every Christian on Earth" agreed with?
Oh, and morality is a purely human construct. it's usually based on what is beneficial for ourselves and other members of the species. What is your basis for the scripture you mentioned being moral? Oh, yeah...Might makes right.
Never mind.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Pointing out the "diversity" among the different Christians sects means that I am hung up ? Oh , that's sweet ! Ask yourself this, who is responsible for this diversity, me or Christians ? I have done nothing but make an observation about the fractured nature of Christian beliefs. Perhaps it you who are hung up about it and therefore you become defensive when this disunity is highlighted by an evil atheist.
This "diversity" actually transcends mere variety and manifests itself as matters of conflicting doctrine. These issues include:
a.) Is baptism necessary to receive salvation ?
b.) can a Christian lose their salvation ?
c.) Is salvation by grace alone or is works required ?
d.) Does faith healing exist in the modern church ?
c.) Speaking in tongues
d.) Is prosperity gospel ( name it and claim it ) actually biblical ?
e.) Can a Christian commit suicide and still go to Heaven ?
f.) Is the Bible inerrant / scientifically reliable ?
g.) Is homosexuality a sin ?
h.) Does God predetermine who will accept salvation ( Calvinism ) or is it purely a matter of free will ?
i.) Should women be allowed to become ordained as Pastors / Preachers ?
These are not superficial matters of style or whim, but are issues that are fiercely debated and cause congregations to split and new churches to form. Don't blame me for pointing out the obvious.
Christians have always maintained disputes among themselves ( and always will ) and only in the last few hundred years have they abandoned the use of force to settle their disagreements.
Please don't blow smoke up my ass by trying to project a false image of one big happy Christian family, all holding hands and singing hymns to Jesus. That's bull shit.
Oh, and regarding Like 19:27 all I can say is that this passage reveals that Jesus is an emotionally disturbed bastard. I mean, if you don't do what he demands then you're dead meat..right ? How appealing.
Worship me or I'll burn you alive. Thank you Jesus.
In all fairness, that is part of a parable used by jesus to justify his usage of other people's things.
Basically, a motivational speech for his disciples to spread jesus' words or he's going to take away their salvation and make the one that works harder richer when he 'comes back'(lol).
It is a pretty shitty metaphor. This goes straight to an earlier question for the evangelists in the thread: Why would a 'perfect' word be so horribly represented by inane metaphors. We learned better life lessons from the meager works of Aesop. Too bad the book writers didn't have someone like him to anthropomorphize social concepts for them.
Sorry. I'll go back to lurking.
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"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me." Jesus, (Luke 19:27)
.... everything is open to interpretation, and this can be a confusing one , but it is part of a story and about a king, not jesus .... as I said in reply 71 .... ???
Bible "Jesus" story charactor is a competing philosophy of both atheist and theist GOD ideas , which is better revealed in the gnostic books. Atheist Jesus pretty much got crushed. Buddha faired better. Is calling Jesus an atheist, just a silly interpretation of mine, also shared by many, like the buddhists ???
BTW I do this to help crush religion ..... like big J tried, ah, whatever !
Atheism Books.
Perhaps it does exist as a parable but it should be interpreted within the context of Christian theology which embraces the concept of a literal hell. God holds the threat of punishment above the heads of humanity...that is his Big Stick to enforce his will.
IMHO Jesus' anger does not appear to be aimed at incompetent followers but toward those who have completely rejected him from the very beginning. At any rate Jesus seems to have the emotional sensibility of an insecure teenager.
Just my two cents.
I think we concur on this. That brings us to $.04
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
Jesus ? Which one ?
I will definately check this book out!
With no Hell mentioned AT ALL in the Old Testament, and no ancient Jewish text even implying it, where do you think that piece of fantasy came from? If you find this doubtful call a local Temple to verify its absence.
"Those who have stepped into the arena shall forever cherish a feeling the protected will never know."
Again, you're highlighting interpretation instead of core doctrine. People have issues interpreting the constitution and its probably a tenth the size of the bible. Human beings inevitably draw different conclusions from seemingly obvious material. binitarians etc......really stretching it don't you think, the number of Christians who don't hold to the Apostles Creed could be put in a stadium. Less than one percent at best. The easy thing about atheism is that you don't have to defend anything. Thats pretty satisfying but ultimately lazy don't you think. Why don't you put your own beliefs under the microspope with the same amount of vigor you put against Christianity. I hardly think it would pass the mustard.
if you were talking to fisherman and peasants would you use eloquent metaphors that were over their heads to communicate? Basic communication skills.
Abrahams bosom and other concepts like this were circulating by the time of Christ. Jesus simply expanded these concepts and explained them to the people. God incarnate had some knowledge to drop.
Will GOD ever figure it out , how to communicate to us humans ?
I guess the bible is the best we got , ahhh ????? 
WOW , god in PRINT .....
After all , Yeah, gotta know god , what is wrong with you all ?
..... don't ya wanna know god you fools ? .... Hey I found him >
< Say hi to God
Atheism Books.
Spumoni- Most rational Atheists DO have beliefs that you can easily put under a microscope. They are beliefs based on facts and evidence. Anyone who puts up facts and evidence that Zeus, Allah, Jesus, or any other mythology is real then most of use would accept it.
However, the evidence needed for any given proposition is proportional to the level of that claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far all you have done is thrown out lame explanations with no proof what so ever to back them up. Your attempt at replying to my post is completely ridicules. For THOUSANDS of years Jewish scholars and priests, originators of some truly stupid concepts, have never even suggested such a far fetched idea as a “Hell” but now you are suggesting that an all knowing God recently decided to “drop” this tidbit of knowledge as an “oh by the way I forgot to tell you...” statement. Have you really sat down and given any of this reasonable thought?
Rather then try to make something up why not simply say “I hadn’t thought of that” and look into it? It would certainly go a long way towards giving you some level of credibility. I for one am not asking you, or anyone else for that matter, to agree with me. All I’m asking is for honesty and that people use facts and evidence in coming up with their conclusions.
“Our actions can only be as wise as our understanding.” And if that understanding is not based on truth than our actions will clearly suffer. If you base YOUR actions on faith -Firm belief in something for which there is no proof (Marriam-Webster) rather then evidence then your actions will also suffer and sadly that suffering is usually not left to the one acting on “faith”.
"Those who have stepped into the arena shall forever cherish a feeling the protected will never know."
Michael, I would recommend the book "Shades of Sheol" for an exhaustive look at the concept in the Old Testament and correlary jewish history. it did exist as a concept but not in the more elaborated form as you noted. this was the revelatory nature of Christ in sharing about the reality of issues regarding the afterlife that earlier people were not privy to seeing as they were not God.
Michael, I would recommend the book "Shades of Sheol" for an exhaustive look at the concept in the Old Testament and correlary jewish history. it did exist as a concept but not in the more elaborated form as you noted. this was the revelatory nature of Christ in sharing about the reality of issues regarding the afterlife that earlier people were not privy to seeing as they were not God.
Everyone agrees that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
You make the extraordinary claim of a Hell in the Old Testament ( Which anyone can refute with a simple phone call to any random Rabbi. ) and then use the mastorial thesis of a Belfast theology student as “evidence” to back up your claim?!?!?
Did Rook put you up to this joke?
The following is a quote from Trent C. Butler regarding the book you suggest by Philip Johnston: “.... he has hardly proven a case for anything, coming down at most points on evidence from silence or on his own theological assumptions, especially assumptions that separate biblical affirmations from influence from Israel’s neighbors. “ - “Shades of Sheol: Death and Afterlife in the Old Testament”. Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society. Sept 2004
Like most of the fantastical Biblical concepts, Hell is a myth. Accept it, move on, and help us free the minds of other people, like yourself, who have been mislead.
"Those who have stepped into the arena shall forever cherish a feeling the protected will never know."