Taosim
Posted on: November 15, 2007 - 12:17am
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Taosim
What are peoples thoughts on Taoism?
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it's pretty awesome ancient atheistic wisdom ....
The Tao that can be thought about is not the true Tao.
I have not studied it in depth to have a reasonable opinion. It seems to start less wars than the other major religions.
Morte alla tyrannus et dei
Seriously, Tao is the first philosophy* I explored after my deconversion from Christianity. It helped to make sense out of a lot of things, and made me a lot less tweaky than I had been when I was younger. But I decided to back away from it in favor of a more dualistic cosmology.
I can attempt to answer questions if you have them. The problem is that it's really hard to talk directly about Tao, because whenever you put something into words, that's not it anymore. That's the meaning of the first line of the Tao Te Ching: "The Tao that can be known is not the eternal Tao." It mostly has to be grasped through metaphors.
*Tao is not strictly a religion in the usual sense, but serves some of the same functions.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
Textom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism
look's (5 min of reading) like, Buddhism + , ? is this essentially correct, ? and which was first
It's more like Buddhism-. Buddhism is older in India, but not sure whether it spread to China before or after Tao, partly because it's not certain how old Tao in China is.
But they definitely have some things in common, especially in terms of ideas about no-action and right action. But Tao doesn't get bogged down in all the mechanisms of karma and the middle way and the mythology of a great teacher or any of that stuff. It's simpler than that.
And I'm referring here to the hardcore "philosopical" Tao here, based on the Tao Te Ching. Not the complicated Chinese folk religion with a polytheistic pantheon + ancestor worship that sometimes gets labeled "Taoism."
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
Tao is garbage.
It emphasizes apathy and inaction, and has no basis in science.
"if [science education] simply boils down to more physics, more chemistry, more biology, etc., to the detriment of literature and history... Its probable effect on the average human being would be to narrow the range of his thoughts and make him more than ever contemptuous of such knowledge as he did not possess."
-George Orwell, "What is Science?" 1945
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
Yes, understanding is a a three edged sword.
: Freedom - The opportunity to have responsibility.
: Liberty is about protecting the right of others to disagree with you.
It is just another "missfire" assuming that natural disires such as reaching a peak state of "calm" and is just another form of superstition.
It is the same as "Nervana". It is a vaccuous word with no substance.
What we dont know about the human brain or our physicall ability to reach such a state, doesnt mean we should insert naked assertions based on ancient incantations. Crossing your fingers makes some people feel good, but again, that is a pacebo.
We dont need to live our lives using ancient myth and tradition. The species once thought that volcanos were an agrey god, but we now know it isnt. Taoism is no different. It is just another ancient claim to fill in the gaps.
We can study the affects of meditation and attempts to self induce a calm state with nerological studies. We do not have to assume, nor should we, that Taoism is any more credible than Buddhism to explain how the human body works.
It does avoid the pitfalls of tribalism and tyrany of the Abrahamic gods. But it doesnt make it any less superstitious and useless as an explination. It is a naked assertion just like the rest.
Taoism is in the same catigory as Isis worship just and just as credible as Scientology and claims of Reincarnation.
People, be they Christian or Taoist or whatever, do the same thing. Whenever a natural explination is unavailable, they chant and make sure they dont cross the path of a black cat. Simply put, it is all the same to me, nothing but a vacuuous naked assertion,
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
When I started reading about Taoism, I really enjoyed it because it put into words (as much as the Tao te Ching "explains" anything) things I had experienced. (You may have experienced the joy of discovering that there are others like you in some respect, it was like that.)
I knew about the zen/zoning-out state I could get into when playing video games. Times when your body is just doing and you don't really have to think about it, so it was nice to read about it. (I particularly remember playing WipEout for Playstation in high school and having my friends ask "how are you doing that?" as I zipped around the track and I could only respond "I don't know, don't talk to me..."
I also found some of the stories enlightening. (The story of the farmer and the wild horses comes to mind.)
However, I do think it is very deconstructive and not very helpful for living life. If everyone followed the advice of the Tao te Ching, I think we would all be living ascetic lives in apathy. We'd probably be okay with that, but I don't think that life's for me.
-Triften
EDIT: for spelling.
One word:Spellcheck
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
Same here.... I am that gaining god.. of air attack ........ Spatial awareness
? do you also get that annoying transcendental thing, go to bed close your eyes and you can still see the ceiling
When you pay me a sallary then I will care. But since you dont, move on and focus on the subject of the thread. My spelling is not an issue of national security.
Nobody talks in casual conversation like a Harvard graduate writting a disertation. If I was hired for a newspaper or writing a college paper, you'd have a case. But, since this is NOT that context, loose the pet peeve and get over it.
If I bother you that much, skip my posts, but do not expect me to be a clone of you.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I don't expect a clone just proper spelling. I don't think that is to much to ask.
Hmmm, if anything, I'll just continue playing whatever game I was playing, but on the backs of my eyelids.
-Triften
I haven't a superstitious bone in my body, but all the ancient wisdom whether it's hindu, tao, buddha, jesus, etc, I do find of value. It's just our ancestors ideas in dealing with life. True it's sadly turned into dogma, religion, hocus pocus, prejudice, theocracy, and meaningless ritual.
I have fun exploring all the god concepts. Seems the worst is god of abe, because it suggests a god seperate from ourselves, but still fun, and makes for great fiction and comedy. Hell , I even find jesus philosophy to be more atheist than god fearing. Sermon on the Mount was pretty cool. The first 3 commandments just tell me/I/we/us are god. Even the 4th commandment seems just a nice promise of a day off work, then the fundy's fucked that up, kill ya if you do work .... geezzBasically the god concept of the east is atheistic or pantheistic, and my favorite. Of course it can all get silly, and does. Science is the best study of god (reality). Fundy's take a good thing and fuck it all up. Don't blame jesus or buddha ....
Dichotomies are common in Western thought. Western society has become an argument culture. Western culture is characterized by a warlike atmosphere in which the winning side has truth (like a trophy). In such a dialogue, the middle alternatives are virtually ignored. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichotomy
When people ask me "do you believe in god", I laugh and say of course I believe in me and the cosmos.
Buddha words and their meanings. http://kadampa.org/en/reference/glossary-of-buddhist-terms/ ----- http://dharma.ncf.ca/faqs/glossary.html
Core Buddhaism isn't much more than suggestions for removing "unnecessay" frustration and suffering. Treat it like any philosophy.
The concept of nirvana is a simple idea/suggestion, but offers no "magical" solutions. Meditation just means think.
Reincarnation is just the recycling of energy/matter. Don't let the fundys and quacks of the world ruin the messages of our ancient wise men. Look at the crap fundys write about the "founding fathers".
Only look at Buddhism etc in the light of all modern knowledge, free from over-attachment to ancient dogmas, with humility to reality. It can be considerably helpfull in reducing needless frusturation and suffering. It's calming. Whenever I feel tension coming on I now remember, Buddha said just say NO.
The state of calm, the realization that all is one, to stop reaching for false happiness.
I envey you guys that write here. I have a hell of time with sentence structure. I enjoy thinking but not writting. Etc is one of my favorite words.... Voice chats would work better for many. I figure "voice chat rooms" will become common, and the text will even be automatically written. Hey want reverb on that, ... how fun the voice alterations will be .....
I don't have spell check, my pc is limping, I can't upload anything, stuck in explorer.
Try giving up destructive "worry" about being stupid, cause that's stupid stupid, blame it on god, ... we didn't much invent us/this. The difference between the smartest and dumbest is over rated. We are all lost in space/time, here on this mere atomic speck of dust we call earth. Taking ourselves too seriously is half our curse. Thanks jesus/buddha, I love you too ..... and U2 ... zep is better, hee haw twitely dumb .... ever listen to Alan Watts sing .... "somebody slap me" ... now thats a fun song ....
Atheism Books.
Guys, chill out. Philosophcial Taoism is not a religion any more than Pragmatism, Phenomenology, Existentialism, or any other school of philosophy is a religion.
It doesn't ask you to believe anything or follow any rule. It doesn't require you to ignore reason or scientific evidence or accept anything philosophical. You don't have to seek the approval of a supernatural being, and nobody claims that the effect of Tao on your brain is anything special or supernatural.
It's more like a channel that you can flip your brain into (or tune permanently in to if you want to) in order to be able to chill. It doesn't really matter--from within the way of thinking itself--how it works. Might be an interesting scientific question, but it wouldn't affect the philosophical system to know how it worked.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
It's nice to see someone of reason in here. I have previously posted threads about Buddhism and other Non-abrahamic religions and most of the responses are from fundie atheists that want anything dealing with spirituality to removed from society.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
Sentinel, keep on getting on , even atheists need help ! Thanks for the OP. no worrys .... * see that star !
Atheism Books.
I'm not even sure if philosophical Tao could be called "spiritual." It can be very practical, material and active in application. Spiritual experience requires a certain self-awareness that isn't consistent with the Taoist world view.
Philosophical Taoism would even suggest that, if your religion or spirituality--or lack thereof--is causing you problems, perhaps you should consider stopping it.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
Popular atheistic Wayne Dyer, (lots in google), has a recent book on the Tao, and may become the hallmark of his work. The book and 113 reviews here at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Thoughts-Living-Wisdom/dp/1401911846
Geez, Being nice to ourselves?, ... people are so screwed up, as we are taught from birth, fear, doubt, dogma, santa clause, consumerism, gender rules, prejudice, patriotism, etccccc. Hey a little more Lao-tzu Tao as Jesus/Buddha would certainly approve ! ~
Ever read the writtings of famous wild Anarchists? google Anarchists http://www.geocities.com/capitolHill/1931/ .... etc
Here's a pop culture fun one, I've posted before, "THE ABOLITION OF WORK"
by Bob Black, text, http://deoxy.org/endwork.htm
Here it is read as a wild podcast, Twilight of the False Gods 64k podcast
Show #16 (Sep 28, 2006) http://www.podcast.net/show/10023#SODE18
The dialog starts about 1/3 thru, then a song break, then more dialog etc.
..... Have fun, teach fun, I try ..... most people are sick .... aren't they? , but why why why ???
Atheism Books.
The irony of your self-righteousness is just 'to' much.
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