I found out what faith is!
Offline Get this guys.
I found out from a christian last night what faith was.
Turns out faith is being too lazy to find out forsure what people tell you. - simplified by myself.
This guy basically told me... that his faith in Jesus, is comapired to walking in a building and having faith that the floor won't cave in.
He said, he had faith that the floor would hold up.. even though he wasn't sure there were proper footings/columns/support.
He said it was impossible... like knowing jesus' existance... to actually find out if the proper structure is securing the building.
I told him that you can take a back hoe.. and look for yourself whats under the building... or possibly get record blueprints showing how the building was constructed.
I also told him that there is information availiable revealing corrupt religions.
God is the omnimax creator by definition of major religions. If there is evidence that the religion is incorrect about the nature of reality, then there is evidence that the God the religion defines does not exist.
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There's also the fact that building codes exist, and it would be very difficult to build a building in violation of them without getting caught. And in general, buildings don't cave in without help.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Spentley,
He got it wrong. Faith is accepting that for which there is no evidence or refusing to look at the avalable evidence to the contrary. Building codes and inspections generally protect the public from poor workmanship or improper upkeep. Does he have to keep his faith in floors to keep them from caving in?
He is confusing trust and faith.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca
In the same metaphor couldn't atheism be described as refusing to look at the Maker's plans for the building, even though he designed it and understands the structure, and being convinced that you will be able to work it out on your own, without consulting his manual?
Just a thought.
Except in real life we know a building was actually built by a builder. This does not apply to the universe.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Maybe you just haven't found the plans yet...
Maybe the bad design of the building supports that the plan is imaginary..
I'd hardly call the universe badly designed - the sheer scale and the attention to detail is immense. No wonder the plans couldn't be fully understood
This analogy doesn't go far enough because we all know that floors exist and that they usually hold people up.
Faith means walking into a building that is clearly condemned and about to fall down because someone told you (or you read in an old book) that invisible fairies were holding it up.
It also means that if the building collapses on you anyway, you don't revise your mental processes to adopt a more effective method of judgement. You just blame yourself for not believing strongly enough and look for another building to walk into.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
Really? Wow! I didn't know the Maker's plans were out there. Can you link to them for me, please?
Oh, just a few caveats. I'd like reliable sources, please, so 6,000 year-old, much revised, poorly translated works of fiction need not apply.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
If a car comes rushing at me in full speed it is not by faith I conclude that I should get away before it reaches me or else I will get hurt. Alot of things keep trying to kill me, or are very hostile to my life in many conditions; therefore the universe is fine tuned to kill me.
God had no time to create time.
Sure there you go:
http://www.biblegateway.com/ - that meets all the criteria apart from some early bits dating back to more then 6000 years.
if you're worried about the translation:
http://www.greekbible.com/
If you don't speak Greek, pick up a bible, turn to the first few pages, and have a look at the preface which describes the full translation process. It's a pretty thorough process.
and if you have a phobia of books that are 6,000 years old, try the new testament.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew;&version=51;
and if you're more of a scientist, this might appeal to you more:
http://www.godandscience.org/
home you find the plans.
Darn, you got me, Sharky. Sorry I have to move the goal poasts on you, but 2,000 year-old, much revised, poorly translated works of fiction need not apply either.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that the bible is worthless as a source of information about cosmological events like the formation of the universe.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
What gets me is that with all the revisons and translations of the Bible they still can't resolve any of the contradictions in the text.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Tilberian, There is a lot of evidence in favor of the authenticity of the bible - check out http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/authenticity.html if you want to find out.
The Bible does describe the creation of the universe, the earth, and life on it. The Bible also describes the laws that govern the universe and its ultimate fate. This site gives an interesting interpretation.
If you want to look at the footnotes, the link to the page is here, http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/model.html.
jcgadfly, have a look at http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm. Many contradictions aren't actually issues once you examine them carefully.
A quick scan of the site reveals only excuses and interpretations of the bible so liberal that they completely leave the message of the original text. Sorry, but I can't be bothered to wade through this tripe.
The bible gets all of these things completely wrong. The attempt to rewrite Genesis that you posted below is interesting - as an act of original creative writing. The bible certainly doesn't say any of these things.
I would be interested to look at the footnotes and compare what was written above to the actual bible quotes they use for support, however that part of the site is down. I'll check again later.
From my own memory of Genesis, I can say that the above is nothing but an attempt to shoehorn Genesis into some of the known scientific facts. The fact of the matter is that Genesis and science tell totally different stories about the creation of the world. This much is evident when you look at what people thought about the creation of the world prior to the scientific model. They had it all wrong, and poring over Genesis did nothing to educate them.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
Actually it is. A few examples:
What god would knock over the Earth on its axis?
Why have some people freezing to death near the poles while people die of heat at the equator?
Asteroids floating aimlessly in the cosmos, new stars being born and old ones dying everyday, meteors colliding into planets, stars stealing matter and energy from each other, comets whizzing around stars at thousands of mph, space-time contracting at ultra-fast speeds - what for??
The universe is mouth-droppingly huge and "detailed" because it has been expanding for about 13.7 billion years. Do you realize how long that is?? That's 13, 700, 000, 000 years!
As for the plans, maybe there is no plan at all. Maybe the purpose of life is simply what we make for ourselves.
Oh their god, people... Faith is simple, just like the people that carry it around with them like a cellular bag phone from 1988.
People don't like to think.
It makes us sad to think, doesn't it? Walking around in faith that everything is going to be OK because you knelt down and talked to your mattress last night - is much easier than knowing that when you close your eyes for the last time, you aren't getting a castle in the sky.
Every step I took in faith betrayed me
-Sarah McLachlan