"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

http://bulletin.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&messageID=1944202706
[RRS] vs. [IRS]
Body: and all that crap

Well, here is why I am not speaking with them on their radio show...

Will said:
It's not a problem.

Kateums said:
What isnt a problem?

Will said:
The timing.

Kateums said:
No, it is a problem.

Will said:
how

Kateums said:
I dont think anyone from IRS is willing to talk when they have plans to leave town.Why go to aunt sally mae's for Christmas Break if you cant leave the world [including RRS] behind you?ha,Im just saying it's not likely anyone is going to want to talk to brian.Thats all.

Will said:
I see.

Kateums said:
Still, I'll ask anyways and I'll get back to you.

Will says:
ok

Will says:
I hope who it is has done some research.

Kateums says:
hahahaha
whaaaa?

Will says:
Has good arguments.

Kateums says:
You said talk not argue. ha

Will says:
both

Will says:
Have good arguments means they can stand their ground and defend their position.

Will says:
When asked a question you have a good answer.

Will says:
Logan wouldn't be good because he would get mad to fast and just hang up.

Kateums says:
You see, I doubt anyone is going to want to. [now especially]
None of them are up to directly communicating with anyone who spends hour upon hour just trying to force others to be atheist, christian, whatever. They see that as intolerance. [I do too.]

Will says:
UGh, there is no FORCING going on.

Kateums says:
haha

Will says:
It's education, enlightment.

Kateums says:
manipulation
Kateums says:
is what it is

Will says:
Showing both sides of something.

Kateums says:
im not blind, dude

Kateums says:
no its very one sided

Will says:
Not manipulation it's simply saying hello there is another side to what you've already been manipulated into.

Kateums says:
its
"Im right. You're wrong. You're irrational because you dont see things my way. wah wah wah."

Will says:
No,

Kateums says:
Yes

Will says:
No

Will says:
Let me explain

Kateums says:
Not necessary

Kateums says:
I've heard you out already.

Will says:
You haven't.

Will says:
Because you're still just clinging onto what you WANT it to sound like.

Kateums says:
There is someone who is part of [IRS] that is atheist. Did you know that?
They hate the RRS. HATE. You know why they hate it?
They're all for atheism, its just they despise the way you go about it.

Kateums says:
No, Im not.
Im just able to face the facts.

Will says:
Yeah, we stire shit up, how does change acurre?

Will says:
People stire shit up.

Will says:
If you don't think we go the right way about it then what is the right way?

Will says:
Religion is the ONE place where it is considered rude to disagree.

Will says:
In order to truely HATE something you must truely understand it

Kateums says:
No
Religion is one place where it is considered rude to tell someone they are "such and such" just because they dont see eye to eye with you.

Will says:
It's irrational when you belive in something you can't PROVE.

Will says:
I'm NOT saying that PERSON is irrational.

Kateums says:
It is irrational to believe that you can go around telling everyone they are irrational just because they believe in god.

Will says:
Only that ONE instance.

Will says:
Is running for office irrational?

Kateums says:
I dont guess so.

Will says:
Is advertising for a food product Irrational.

Will says:
Is saying hey this isn't right irrational?

Kateums says:
Is Will Majors irrational?

Will says:
NO

Kateums says:
Exactly

Will says:
Yes

Kateums says:
No

Kateums says:
Will Majors is not irrational

Kateums says:
he is intolerant

Kateums says:
but no

Will says:
I am irrational in one thing and rational in others

Kateums says:
not irrational

Will says:
I am not intolerant if you only knew what that word ment.

Kateums says:
I know what it means.

Will says:
If I was Intolerant I would have KILLED logan by now.

Will says:
I would have KILLED you by now.

Kateums says:
... I think it's you that doesnt understand the meaning of the word intolerant.

Will says:
I would have Killed anybody and anything that didn't agree BUT I DON'T.

Kateums says:
You're talking about being homicidal.

Will says:
No, I'm simply calling a spade a spade.

Kateums says:
That doesnt have much to do with intolerance.

Kateums says:
No, its being intolerant.

Will says:
Homicidal is the action not the state of mind.

Will says:
Stop pushing your bullshit definition.

Kateums says:
Exactly so why are you talking about KILLING PEOPLE when KILLING PEOPLE is an action and has very little to do with being intolerant.

Kateums says:
Its not MY definition that is bullshit.

Will says:
Because intolerance is the state of mind and the homocidal action is what an intolerant person might do.

Kateums says:
There is a very slim chance that someone who is intolerant {in the sense that you are} is going to go around killing someone just because they cant relate to them.

Will says:
Kate if i was intolerant I wouldn't be even talking to you.

Kateums says:
No,
Thats not true. You can be intolerant and still speak.

Kateums says:
You may enjoy making an ass out of yourself.
Im not entirely sure you do, but you might.

Will says:
Intolerance is the lack of ability or willingness to tolerate something. In a medical sense, intolerance refers to the inability to ingest medications or foodstuffs without harmful allergic (or other) reactions

Kateums says:
Right
You arent willing to say "Ooh well thats what they believe, fine. I can live with that."

Will says:
Read the rest.

Kateums says:
... medications, i got it.

Will says:
ntolerance refers to the inability to ingest medications or foodstuffs without HARMFUL allergic (

Kateums says:
What the sam hell does that have to do with anything?

Will says:
Proving my damn point kate/.

Kateums says:
A word can many different things.
I was talking about intolerance in this sense of the word : Intolerance is the lack of ability or willingness to tolerate something

Will says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerant

Kateums says:
I know what the word means.

Will says:
If I was intolerant about say someone beliving in god.

Will says:
That would mean I would not co exsist with that.

Will says:
Why can't you go on the show?

Will says:
Here kate...

Will says:
Hold on...

Kateums says:
No
It means you would stick your nose in the air, belittle them, and then make up something about pixie-unicorn fairy men.

Will says:
Hold on hold on...

Will says:
Do me a favor...

Kateums says:
okay what?

Will says:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forums/sapient/atheist_vs_theist

Will says:
Make an account so we can do his in RRS forums.

Kateums says:
What?

Will says:
Kate what you just defind was the word Pity.

Will says:
defined.

Kateums says:
Defined?
When did I define the word pitty?

Will says:
It means you would stick your nose in the air, belittle them

Will says:
Are you going to make an account?

Kateums says:
Yes
Well its big of you to admit you do that to people.
It's good to see you're still a human being.

Kateums says:
An account for what?

Will says:
I AM TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE.

Kateums says:
YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING ME

Will says:
HELPING PEOPLE DOES NOT NESSASARILY MEAN COMFORT THEM.

Kateums says:
HELPING PEOPLE DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN MAKING THEM CONFORM TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE JUST BECAUSE you THINK ITS THE RIGHT THING TO BELIEVE

Will says:
People are being lied to and brain washed on a day to day basis so when someone else comes along and says something different they reject it.

Kateums says:
Like you being brainwashed for instance?

Will says:
I am not brain washed, I used to be.

Kateums says:
No, you are brainwashed now.
You werent then, but are now.

Will says:
Are you going to make that account?

Kateums says:
An account for WHAT?

Will says:
www.rationalresponders.com

Kateums says:
Okay all I saw was a lot of videos

Will says:
There should be a create account at the top somewhere

Will says:
It's amazing you don't want to come on the show but you talk big game/

Kateums says:
Look,
I dont want to go on the show due to the fact all you do is well... how did you put it "pitty" others when its absolutely not necessary in the least. I dont appreciate it when someone {even my FRIEND} sticks their nose up at me, makes an attempt at belittling me, and whatnot. Excuse me if I'm just a bit bitter.
Amazed? It sure as hell doesnt take much to amaze you Will. I wonder how much it took to brainwash you into all this mess

Kateums says:
do you seriously want to spend as much time as you do doing the whole "theism vs atheism" bullshit

Will says:
I was fucking lied to all my life in church.

Kateums says:
Im not saying you should believe that stuff.
All Im saying is you shouldnt bash anyone else FOR believing.

Will says:
Why, just let people be lied to like I was?

Will says:
To belive in something they can't prove?

Kateums says:
Okay, prove to me here and now WITH WORDS and NO YOUTUBE VIDEOS or whatever
that everything you heard was a lie

Will says:
Let them do what they did to me to others but I can't say that's bullshit?

Will says:
Evidence.

Will says:
One word, evidence.

Kateums says:
Sure you can
Say it all you want
But when you personally attack another person for what they believe, you arent helping them

Kateums says:
Evidence of what? I see no evidence?
and please for {haha} the love of god do not send me a link to anything

Will says:
I am simply returing the favor I was attacked mentally.

Will says:
Kate, you won't see the evidence if you REFUSE to look.

Kateums says:
Well I sure as hell would LOOK at the evidence if someone SHOWED it to me.
Tell me, what is the evidence?

Will says:
Don't send you a link? You just projected to me WHY I do what I do. You refuse to see things.

Will says:
How can I SHOW you the evidence if I can't even send a link?!

Kateums says:
If someone is unhappy with their beliefs {trust me} they will come to you.
If they are truly searching for a way out, they'll find you.
Let the masses come to you, instead of the other way around.

Kateums says:
HAHAHA
Tell me with words.

Kateums says:
What is the evidence.
Did someone find this big black book on the moon with all the universe's secrets in it?
What? Tell me.

Will says:
I already tried with words but to back up words you need EVIDENCE but I can't send you a link so what is the point?

Kateums says:
You didnt give me ONE good reason not to belive in god except for it just didnt work out for you.

Will says:
The answers to everything is not in ONE book which is my point, its not the bible nore the quran.

Will says:
Beliving in god has GOTTEN PEOPLE KILLED kate.

Kateums says:
I didnt say it was in a book.
All im saying is you arent showing me evidence

Kateums says:
Not believing in god has pretty much GOTTEN PEOPLE KILLED

Will says:
YES and I can PROVE that

Kateums says:
Man, I really dont believe someone is going to come over and kill me just because I believe in God.

Will says:
Look at fucking history.

Will says:
Well belive it because it happens.

Kateums says:
History. Yes. Its nice. I have history next semseter. what is your point?

Will says:
But I can't send a link because you'll REFUSE to look and not see the evidence.

Will says:
History in high school in controlled by the religious right to some exstent.

Kateums says:
If you cant tell me why I should believe you and what you say without sending me a link, you're a fraud.

Will says:
You're not learning all of history in high school.

Kateums says:
You cant tell me in your own words?

Kateums says:
I dont learn much of anything in high school, other than how much I hate it.

AND THAT IS WHY I'M NOT PARTAKING IN ALL THE FUN THAT COMES WITH BEING ON A LAME ASS RADIO SHOW

Have a nice day.

you would think they would at least get a crapy profile somewhere...

change a few colors make a graphic in paint...

lazy, really lazy, making me look good lazy, damn....

Good points Matt.
I find it truthful that the people at Irrational Response Squad are promoting religion. Talk about truth in advertising!

Gravitys' newest venture: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=127926836

Feel the honesty?

A comment off of IRS I found from an atheist. Tell me what you think:

I'm an Atheist.
My favorite comment on here was when Atheists were called lazy: "i think people are just lazy so they'd rather say nonono it's not real instead of actually sitting down and studying the bible and all of the good things that are in it."

One could say that statement wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, but it was aimed at a group, anyone within that group is attacked as such.

I've read the Bible three times. The Qur'an once. The Book of Mormon once. I've been a run-of-the-mill Christian, I've been a Buddhist for a year, I've been a Satanist for three months, I've been a Mormon for six months.

Not that I'm being on the defense or offense here. I've read the comments through this whole thing. I think what's going on is incredibly low/lame. I feel bad for participating. I got tired of this crap after high school.

Many children passing insults and claiming tolerance. Will is behaving as a child, so is everyone else. You could all do with a pat on the back and a good book.

Other things from that comment I already quoted.
"i watched and watched and watched alllllll of those athiest videos and fell over laughing at every one of them. i could not believe how rediculously stupid they were."

I agree, they are stupid, and annoying for the most part. I was embarassed watching them. Embarassed for them.

Not that this IRS and RRS thing is anything to be proud of. I hate saying that because I'm fond of some people, and don't know others. It's a bothersome thing.

I already regret posting this.

http://www.myspace.com/irrationalresponsesquad
If you read the "about me" then I think he makes some important points.
These atheistic forums/communities tend to have a two-fold function:
1) Encourage reasoning in general.
2) Push atheistic arguments/conclusions.

If you're concentrating on pushing conclusions (as we've all done at some point or other) then it can make you impatient with the whole rational process. You can start stating certain principles dogmatically rather than going through the process of trying to rationally convince your 'opponent'. You might even accuse them of not thinking properly or failing to grasp basic principles of argument.

Normally this isn't a problem - after all, I've done this to people in the past and I've had it done to me and often not taken offense. Debates get heated, they don't always stick to pure rational arguments, these things happen. However, if you're not used to it then it can be taken the wrong way - especially with a certain backdrop.

I've seen atheists use 'bad' arguments.
Sometimes it's "prove it scientifically else you're being irrational" when there's a lot of beliefs we have that aren't proved scientifically but don't feel irrational for holding. The gist of these arguments tend to be:
"Either prove what you believe formally or else you're irrational."
while only targetting one kind of irrational belief - religious.
It makes them sound dogmatic - "This is the only way to be rational" and then they expect you to accept an argument you don't fully understand (and you suspect that they don't either) or call yourself an irrational 'non-thinker'.

Although the arguments presented might be rational, they're not presented in a rational way or encouraged to be treated in a rational way. (sometimes we can be too impatient for 'results' to let people think their way through the argument and agree with it in their own time)
Some of the arguments that have been presented dogmatically in the past, I actually agreed with many of them when I gradually understood them properly. Even when they were presented to me rationally, it sometimes took a long while for the reasoning of the argument to 'click' and to find myself agreeing with it.

So back to my main point:
Most of us here love to debate and don't mind playing/being played hard. We can push our points as hard as we like knowing that our opponent won't fall for accidental dogma and won't be put off by banter. It's very off-putting for people who don't enjoy aggressive debates though. Aggressively pushing conclusions towards these people will put them off debating. They'll feel out-argued but not feel 'wrong', as the argument didn't persuade them rationally... and aggressiveness will just make them more defensive.

So if you take another look at the Irrational Response Squad and read the 'about me' bit again. The guy's impression of the Rational Response Squad is that they push atheistic beliefs by calling competitors irrational...
I think he's got the wrong idea completely (I know you guys a little better) but it's a common impression that people can get from atheistic groups that use the word 'irrational' while pushing their conclusions...

What do you guys think?
Am I being a bit over-sympathetic to the apathetic?

Speaking of, I was looking around and found "The Reasonable Reaction Swarm". Can't tell yet if they're anti-RRS or not. Their motto is, "Believe in god? Eh, we don't fucking care."
I dunno, it seems so weird to start a group based against a group that they feel is silly for starting a group against something. Did that make ANY sense? LOL

I... won't argue with any of these groups about their right to say what they want. It's silly to think that they SHOULDN'T make sites like that. I mean, I'm sure many theists take it very personally that we have a site against what they believe in. I shouldn't take it personally when someone has a problem with one of my favourite regular forums. It just seems odd that a group of people who think that believing in god is silly, but have problems with us officially stating and discussing it, would start their own group, officially stating and discussing the fact that we are silly.....

It kind of... breaks my head.

"PS- by the way, you may be happy, you may be REALLY REALLY REALLY happy, but unless you know my God, you won't have joy."
an actual quote on the IRS page

I know, it's very contradictory.

Yeah, 'cause the 2/3 of the world that's non-Christian is just really dull and sad.

I doubt Paul Harvey said this. It looks like one of those rants written by either a neocon or some anonymous person and attributed to a celebrity.