I just don't want this to drop. Surely more than two theists can commit
Posted on: February 23, 2007 - 5:06pm
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I just don't want this to drop. Surely more than two theists can commit
My last post about this was apparently not simple enough, so I'm going to try again.
I am not trying to disprove anything, or to trap anybody into saying anything. I want a "yes" or "no" answer. That's all. The question is extremely simple. Theists, please answer a simple yes or no, and you have my word as a gentleman that all I'm going to do is tally the answers.
Is God in Hell?
At the beginning of this post, two theists have answered. The tally is:
God in Hell: 2
God Not in Hell: 0
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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If God is in Hell, I wonder how he deals with the screaming from the burning people.
Shhh!
Don't scare them away. Theists are very timid when confronted with very simple questions.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Oh, sorry!
lol, dammit! Then I thought sure someone had answered, and it was you again
It's ok. I don't mind bumping this to the top. Surely out of the 500ish people online now, some are theists, and can answer a simple yes or no question.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
bump
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
No and Yes.
In my belief, in accordance with my understanding the bible, there are two ways in which this word is used.
1.) The world in its sinful state. (Yes.)
2.) The total seperation between God and Man in which a man would cease to exist. (No.)
Simply stated questions many times do not have corresponding, simplistic, answers.
Another bump.
Yes, God is in hell. It is his creation, after all.
Hamby, I hope you don't mind if I ask how they think God deals with the screams.
Score:
God is in hell: 3
God is not in hell: 0
I admit I cannot answer this question: 1
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Heh, I did not "admit" that I could not answer the question. I did answer it.
Just, answered it in a way in clarify that the question asked for a simple answer where one was not necessitated. The question was "oversimplified".
It's like if you asked this:
Hey Hammy, still killing people? yes/no?
Shame on you rhad. You're trying to assign a logical fallacy to my question, and it's not true.
One of the principles of logic is that something cannot be both true and false at the same time. I asked a true false question. A very simple one, at that.
Your answer, "Yes and no" is illogical since it violates a fundamental principle of logic.
My question was not a leading question. Damn, I wish I could remember what that fallacy is called. That fallacy is where a second, "hidden" point is imbedded in the question. For instance, "Do I still enjoy killing people?" implies that once I enjoyed killing people, and there is no way for me to refute it by answering yes or no.
My question, however:
Is God in hell?
has no hidden point.
Ok, I'm going to cut you off from your next objection. Saying that my question implicitly restricts god to the bounds of logic, and that's the hidden point, is a logical fallacy, and would render all logic meaningless. Because of the absurdity of that conclusion, the point must be false.
But then again, that's the way you like to defend god, isn't it? By descending into the absurd and claiming that it can't be proven false because of the absurd conclusion.
I'll talk about this in another thread, but this thread is about answering yes or no to a simple question. If you want to debate the question, please start another thread, and I'll address it there. I'll edit, move, or delete posts debating the validity of the question if they're in this thread.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Heh. Dang it.
No.. but really. I realize now that my theoretical question was not perfectly representative of the fallacy I still feel is in yours.
So let me try to clarify before I take off to play a little 5v5 soccer game.
Your question assumes Hell is a place in which God tortures people. If you mean "Hell" as in.. "If hell is an actual "place, physical place" necessesitated by the bible as well as all other things required by that necessesity" (which I don't believe is one of torture or an actual place where physical beings are placed for eternity).. then I would answer yes.
I will borrow the theology from Saint Augustine (even though I don't agree with all he says regarding hell or other beliefs):
In order to exist, God must be affecting.
There you go. So if hell is an actual place.. then God is there. If it is mere a concept.. then god does not need to be there, for God does not necessarily reside in concepts, since concepts are not "things", even as God does not reside in "arithmetic".
By the way.. regarding your logic and restricting God to logic-- I'm all for that.
But in another thread. Indeed.. once I get back to the computer.. but, I think we might agree on that point anyways.
So.. in answer-- if hell is a place, Yes. If it is not, No.
That's a pretty safe bet.. I think.
Thanks for clarifying, rhad.
I still think you're hedging your bets, though. If I posed the question the way I did, isn't it obvious that the existence of hell would be an assumed point?
You know about the "black hole fallacy," right? Where you question every single thing about a posed question such that you start looping back into a circle of constant questions as a way to avoid answering the original question...
Anyway, I accept your answer that god is in hell
Score:
God in Hell: 4
God not in hell: 0
Come on, theists! There are 580 people online! Be brave and give an answer!
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Heh. But that was my reason for not answering in the first place: you're assuming, and implying, that hell must be a certain thing.
Me answering would be to concede that it is this thing.
I only question what I feel needs clarification; and answer in accordance with whatever way one might choose to clarify.
All logic is circular. (Wow.. that was a big absolute statement. Dangerous thing for me to do. Why is an axiom true? Because its self evident. Why is it self evident? Because its accepted as an a.) axiom or as b.) self evident.)
I know I seem like I dodge questions a lot.. not my purpose. And if it seems that I "hedge" my bet.. it is only because I feel that a particular thing isn't really that important to have a strong opinion on. (Hell.. is something I think is important to have an opinion on in Christian Theology.. and thus, I gave mine-- didn't hedge in this case. I answered clearely for each of two ways in which I considered possible intrepretations of the question)
Ok, so, for real and for true, rhad...
Do you believe hell exists? Check Yes/No
If yes, are you comfortable with me adding your answer to my informal poll of theists who believe in hell? Check Yes/No.
Geez, you make things difficult sometimes.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I hope not to take this gathering of statistical data off track, but I am rather curious about rhad's opinion of hell. I was not aware that the definition of hell remained an open question for christians. Since it is such an essential part of christian beliefs, I would have thought there was a clear and unanimous decision as to what hell is or isn't. If hell is still open to interpretation as far as being an actual place or merely a concept, is god likewise open to interpretation (as far as being an actual thing, or a concept)? If not, please exlain why.
Thank you
There are no theists on operating tables.
Oh, my.
Please don't sidetrack this thread with that debate. I'll never get anyone to give an answer if you do.
I have a thread going right now that addresses the nature of hell. Please take the discussion there so I can at least have a chance of getting some input on the thread topic.
Check out the thread.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/4854
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Perhaps only two people have responded because it's a stupid question - give me a yes or a no..???!!
What nonsense..!!
Let's play your silly game - answer this question with just a yes or a no:
Do you still sexually molest the little boys and girls in your neighbourhood..??
Remember - we're just looking for a yes or a no..!!
How does "Is God in hell" qualify as a "complex question" fallacy?
Catholic, I'm not even sure why I'm responding to you, but would you please read the whole thread before you display your ignorance again?
I've already refuted your loaded question before you asked it.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
It clearly isn't, Matt.
There's only one possible way to avoid answering this question, and that's to claim that it restricts god to logic.
Restricting god to logic has been dealt with in so many threads that I am not going to bother with it in this thread. I'm perfectly happy to let the theists answer the question or not.
And by the way, theists, if you have a problem with my question, start a new thread. If you put my name in the thread, I'll absolutely answer your objections. This thread, however is a simple poll, and is not meant for debate.
And catholic, please don't be offended if you try to argue the point in this thread and I delete it. Please start a new thread if you don't understand the refutation I've already given.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism