yea I know what the dictionaries say...it's my opinion on it. Sorry should said that...

Reinforcing my position regarding the reliability of scripture in describing a consistent message.

Religions to me have always been the stuff that man puts into place over God.

The texts do, and then the interpreters of the text do it again. Without “stuff” you'd be a pantheist, or a at most deist.

Any organized dogma like Catholism, Baptist, Lutherian, that stuff, those are religions...know what I mean?

Nope. Sounds like an opinion, and not one commonly shared by believers themselves.

The reason my opinion Christanity is not a religion is because of the whole label thing; following the example of Jesus has been and is to me an action, a lifestyle, not what came from man but from God (not going to get into if God exists argument ok!)

You don't have “Jesus” telling you how to behave, you have a text that could have been written by anyone, editing by anyone, altered by anyone, and then your own (or your religious authority's) interpretation. Unless you think you talk to “god,” in which case I'm done here.

 how long should I wait for sugarfree to catch and resolve this self contradiction?

"First, let me state that the OT message is not what I'm going to be referring to because, to a Christian, that law no longer applies thanks to Jesus."

 "See this is where you need understanding of the WHOLE message of the bible"

 

You are judging these men of history by human standards and not God's.

Romans 9:14-18 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

This goes to re-enforce what I've been saying in that we as humans are NOT the judges of who is saved and who is damned. 

I've seen this question before and the short answer has always been a means to an end.

I've read a bunch of different views on the old testament verses that get into a more violent punishment for the sinners and there are two things I'd want to express:

1. In the context of the time period, it is indeed speaking of man killing man in accordance to God's will of the time in order to instill a sense of justice and fear with men to basically teach them "obedience". While I approached this from the new testament idology in Jesus' teaching that we must not fear those who can destroy the body but fear the one who can destroy the soul (Matthew 10:28), the context in to which Leviticus was written was indeed for man to threaten death to the sinner so I apologize I was indeed incorrect.
2. While this might not mean as much, I did want to put that it was based on the angle of a Christian, that is how Jesus approached sin and sinners that is what I did incorrectly to the time period.  Jesus' ministry when it comes to sin is very specific to not judging and in Romans Paul speaks highly of leaving condemnation to God.  Because of both of those, The NT replaces what the OT stated in terms of judging sin as not being for man to do.

I think we're coming precariously close to getting off topic (my fault, sorry 'bout that) so let me try to get back on course.  I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring your post.

Ok, can you agree that religious dogma creates animosity towards homosexuals, regardless of whether you believe it should or not? 

What can be done to change that?  Do you think this perception should be changed?

I think I asked you this before in the other thread but then you theists got the boot and you couldn't answer.   Do you think that it's fair that because of religious beliefs in this country, there are people who are being denied their rights (i.e. homosexuals being allowed to marry)?  If so, why?  If not, why? 

Nope, that's completely on topic.  However, try convincing a theist of that.  If it weren't for the Bible, etc., homosexuality would not be considered immoral (or bad, or evil, or...)

I think first off the fear and/or hatred of homosexuals comes from men that are not following God's word. Of all the civilzations that have existed in Earth, God's power remained consistant and yet people didn't follow. Society always seemed to want to do it's own thing, just as we see it today, and in every case, such as in Rome, Soddom, Persia, so on, they crumbled because they did not fear God.

Gay marriage is not about gay rights. It's about what marriage means and marriage is between a man and a woman. It's what marriage has been about since it's inception and saying it needs to "evolove" is not what marriage has done in the past (an example was given to me about the right for a black man and a white woman to marry was allowed in law is not a valid example because it was still in reference to a man and woman pairing).

As a Christian, my beliefs are clear from the NT in regard to homosexuality: it is wrong, it is immoral. It is also specific as to what a Christian should do towards a person who considers themself to be homosexual; do not judge. What this means is as a Christian, I do not agree with homosexuality nor do I believe it should be practiced. It also means that I will not hate a person because he/she is gay nor will I tell them they are going to hell because of it. Those who forget God, God will forget them.

Romans 1:21-25 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Now, last thing I wanted to add here are the rights according to society and to human beings. Because I cannot nor should condemn a homosexual person, I do not agree with laws that make label you a deviant. The hatred that others show to someone who is gay should stop and harsher laws should be enacted to those who do "gay bashing" or other forms of violence.

Hate to remind you Lynette but marriage was defined well before a "church" began doing it.  All over both the old and new testaments, including the accepted 10 commandments, speak of marriage and wives.  Even if you don't accept the bible as a gateway into history, Jewish texts as well as Greek and Roman documents also speak of marriage.  I'm not talking about it in a church but as it has been documentated throughout history - as man + woman.

Tell me, if society states its ok for civil unions, what then?  Won't be good enough?  If a gay couple can achieve all the rights except for the tax break of marriage, what would be the need to be married? 

You still have not addressed what I've been saying. Not all cultures subscribe to this but they haven't collapsed. In fact, cultures in which people are less religious and more equal fair better than cultures such as our own. Marriage, historically, wasn't about love or romance but about property hence the reason the early christian church willingly married gay couples without an issue. Our culture gives a child molester, a rapist, a child abuser the right to marry and marry as many times as they would like without question. Claiming that allowing two men or two women the opportunity to marry as societies once did will be the demise of American culture or marriage is an absolute farce. The slippery slope crap that theists use to exclude people is simply non-existent. 

"The ancient Hebrews, according to the Old Testament, were polygamous. Cleopatra's Ptolemaic dynasty practiced brother-sister marriage in homage to the Egyptian gods Osiris and Isis. And in some Native American cultures, transgendered women born as biological males — sometimes called berdache — were among the most prized of wives."

You can find a great deal of information here about where it came from. As you'll see, with our culture today, allowing everyone equal access to marriage will harm no one as marriages in our culture today have nothing to do with what they once were: History of Marriage in Western Civilization. 

 It's not going to be good enough until , same sex couples get every single right a hetro couple gets, if churchs dont want   to marry same sex couples thier choice, but their should be an alterntive system that gives them every right , including tax break.

And in accordance with being a Christian there IS issue...because they didn't follow what the bible states doesn't make it any more right in the eyes of God. 

As to the others who posted recently, I've stated before, if society deems it acceptable ON A LEGAL STANDPOINT that gay marriage is allowed, you won't hear any objection from me.  Gay couples have 99% of all rights that hetero couples have today; the only one missing really is the federal IRS designation of a married couple.  I found even various insurance companies will in fact cover your "mate".  So...other than the federal standpoint what is missing?  The title?  The paper that says you have the right to be as miserable as anyone else married (haha joke)?

You know and I know however that "equality" is based upon perception.  I can only speak for myself that I have and would treat anyone I meet as a brother or sister in God since this is what my faith and the bible say.