I am watching Kirk Cameron explain evolution.

Iruka Naminori
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I am watching Kirk Cameron explain evolution.

Am I a glutton for punishment?

I hadn't watched the whole unedited version in its entirety and I am cringing in horror as I listen to Kirk's explanation of evolution and his absurd assertion that there are no transitional fossils.  The crocoduck segment was the absolute clencher.  I can only watch in small doses.  The ignorance being displayed is truly painful, especially since a large part of the American population actually agrees with Kirk and people like him.  They actually get their evolutionary education from people like Kirk.  I feel outright embarrassment on Kirk's behalf, partially because he will never educate himself to the point where he can feel embarrassed for himself.

I went to a fundamentalist Christian school and was taught "science" from a textbook that could have been written by Kirk.  I bought it hook, line and sinker.  In the intervening years, I've tried to educate myself.  Evolution has become a topic of endless fascination and wonder...and these poor Christian schmucks are missing out!  Some of the coolest animals only exist in the fossil record and it's so wonderful to try to imagine what they looked like and how they lived.

One of my favorite fossils made up part of the "Archaeoraptor" hoax that Kirk brought up.  From Wiki:

"By January 2000 the fossil had proven to be fraudulent and National Geographic retracted their article and promised an investigation. In the October 2000 issue, the magazine published a retraction and an article about the case. A Chinese farmer had created the "Archaeoraptor" fossil by gluing two fossils together, one of which was a Microraptor, the other one was a fossil bird later named Archaeovolans. On November 21, 2002, a paper in Nature found that Archaeovolans was the the same species as the previously-named avialan species Yanornis martini, so the front end of the fossil now bears this name."

Now Microraptor is a true transitional species: a tiny dromaeosaurid with flight feathers on its arms and legs.  Someone needs to show Kirk this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microraptor_zhaoianus

These little dinosaurs most likely glided bi-plane style from tree to tree.  Kirk, is this not transitional enough for you?
 

 


deludedgod
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The idea of a "transitional

The idea of a "transitional fossil" is a joke. THe whole process of evolution is transition in small steps, but often two close species (measured in terms of amino acid divergences in conserved protein domains) are too alike in phenotype for there to be what anyone would consider a "transitional form". As cladogenestic speciation tends to occur when two populations become geographically seperated, the stream of genetic change that causes population X to become unable to interbreed with Y (hence called speciation) is too slow for there to be major recognizable changes within less than several thousand generations.

I had one guy tell me that if evolution is true we should see “bird-reptiles” or something along those lines. That is ridiculous. Those two Orders are separated by 200 million years of divergence. Evolution does not work along such broad lines. These three groups used to live in primordial single cell communities, promiscuously exchanging genes. This is how the foundation genes of all life were selected. But as the three groups went their separate ways, the gene flow pump shut off, and now, it is a rare occurrence when these groups exchange genetic material. By the same logic as the “bird-reptile” fallacy, molecular biologists should see weird Eukaryote-prokaryote hybrids. The divergence occurs long before different Orders proliferate. For instance, let us take the split on the level of Kingdoms. Plants and Animals, these are both Eukaroyta, yet their fundamental differences are much more then genetics. All plants have deep within them the result of an ancient symbioses, chloroplasts as well as Mitochondria, which have the astonishing ability to metabolize light (well, they don’t actually metabolize light, they just use it as a catalyst, but it’s still impressive) The truth is, all 300,000 species of plants are extremely closely related, and all have one thing in common How do we know this? Amino acid tracking. Evolution is dependent on homologous sets of genes called orthologs and paralogs. Genes in multiple organisms that obviously descended from the same common ancestor (anyone who bothers should check the amino acid tracking branching tree of hemoglobin evolution as an example) are called orthologs, while genes which occurred as the result of mutation descended from a single gene (thereby producing two or more new genes) are called paralogs. Both of these are called homologs.

The gene flow pump is shut off long before the divergence at order level. How can these groups interchange genetic material when only within a species can organisms breed? Obviously we are not going to see bird-reptiles or anything ridiculous like that. The different paths of evolution go their different ways.

Onto the issue of “transition fossils” or “missing links” or whatever you call them. There is no such thing. What on earth do they mean “transitional”? If they mean the “bird-reptile” hybrid or something along those ridiculous lines, they need to study classification biology. If they mean that the fossil record is incomplete, well of course it is! Fossils are almost never formed. When nearly all animals die, anoxic layers of silt pile on top of them, converting their organic remains into hydrocarbon sludge…that’s where we get our oil from (How do creationists explain oil anyway?) There are so many steps in evolution lost forever because the fossil record is not complete.

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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MattShizzle
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Kirk Cameron is just a

Kirk Cameron is just a dumbass. He's pretty much Comfort's puppet.


Free Thinking
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MattShizzle wrote: Kirk

MattShizzle wrote:
Kirk Cameron is just a dumbass. He's pretty much Comfort's puppet.

lol

nah, he's comfort's bitch. 

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D-cubed
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MattShizzle wrote: Kirk

MattShizzle wrote:
Kirk Cameron is just a dumbass. He's pretty much Comfort's puppet.

That would explain why Ray hand his hand up Kirk's ass. 


Rev0lver
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lets get kirk cameron to

lets get kirk cameron to find us a fossil of biblical dragons, described in Job 41


MattShizzle
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I've heard them say

I've heard them say "dragons" meant dinosaurs.


Rev0lver
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ask them to read the chapter

ask them to read the chapter over again and explain the fire breathing and smoke flaring part


MattShizzle
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Yeah, that's kinda not 

Yeah, that's kinda not  explained by any dinosaur fossils!


thingy
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Iruka Naminori wrote: I

Iruka Naminori wrote:
I hadn't watched the whole unedited version in its entirety and I am cringing in horror as I listen to Kirk's explanation of evolution

Kirk doesn't talk about evolution, ever.  He uses that word, then talks about something else all together.  I'm yet to figure out what it is he talks about when he mentions the word "evolution", I don't think anyone knows. 

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What confuses me is that

What confuses me is that even the completely wrong version of evolution that kirk cameron and his creationist buddies present still makes more sense than the alternative they offer (there's this guy with these magical powers who exists outside of reality. He said his magic words and the world popped into existence.)

Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!