What to do if it's true
Posted on: June 14, 2007 - 8:03am
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What to do if it's true
There are here people trying to prove that God doesn't exist.
I was taking a look at that site www.blasphemychallenge.com and I foud many people recording their videos with blasphemy about the Holy Spirit.
It's not a big deal but if what the bible say is true?
Because is difficult to prove about something that you don't see.
Let's think about ET; many people does't believe that it exist because nobody see that. But how can we prove if it exist or not?
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Pascal's Wager redux?
I see no evidence, therefore I don't believe. It's not up to me to prove that there is no god.
What you're posing is called Pascal's Wager.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
We're showing just how sure we are that the Bible is false.
What does it mean for a collection of myth and poetry to be 'true' or 'not true'? The bible is not a book of science or philosophy but a collection of texts of different genres by different authors. The texts of the bible are not based on a single world view.
Let me ask you, what do you do if the Quran is true?
So what if there is a god? No sane god would torture you for a mere error of belief so there's nothing to worry about. If, on the other hand, there is a god but he's not sane then believer and non-believer alike are (pardon my french) fucked.
But I don't have many informations to give my opinion about Pascal's Wager.
Sorry
You can't ingnore everything wrote in the bible.
Because, many facts dicribed there are proved by the hystory and Archeology too.
So, If you can prove everything the bible is fake you have to prove parts of history is also fake.
Have you ever think about it?
What I do if the Quran is true?
First of all, I would try to really know more about it.
Why people,believe in that.
Then I'd take a opinion
Exactly what in the Bible has been proven by the archeological field?
History is written by the victors. I can't recall who wrote that but I think its a very apt quote.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Imagine your father telling you.
hey kid, don't put your hand in the stove because it is hot, and you don't believe in it and put your hand there.
What will happen?
For sure, you will burn yourself.
If you are not sure that everything the bible is fake because there are things proved by history.
So you can't affirm that hell doesn't exist, you can't prove that some future profecy.
why you will take a risk?
The Existence of Sodom and Gomorrah and this city are destroyed by fire.
It is a resarch descoverd by Ron Wyat, in 1980's
and it was published around all the word.
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
The risk we are taking is smaller than the risk of falling off the planet for no apparent reason. A stove is not a proper analogy because you can feel the heat of the stove with your hand, we know how stoves work. We don't know how God, hell, or any of that works. What is God made out of? No one can say, so we ignore them.
Likewise, we could use the same "evidence" you're presenting to prove that Superman is a real person, because there are historical events in the comics. In fact, American comic book superheroes began fighting World War 2 before America did.
A quick google search of Ron Wyatt and Sodom and Gemorrah led me to all Christian websites. I'm looking for a reputable experts or scholarly based articles. Perhaps something affiliated with a University.
Here is Wiki on Pascal's Wager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
I suggest that you become familiar with this. There are also threads on the forum with regard to this and you'll see why your argument fails.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
By the way.... have you ever heard about the wind analogy?????
If you can agree with the stove because you see. think about this.
Do you see the wind????
Why do you believe the wind exist?
You seem to forget we have 5 senses. We can test the effects wind has on other things. We can feel it on our skin.
edit: yes i'm sure many here have heard the same thing ad nasuem.
I strongly suggest you go through some of these threads. Everything you are posting has already been posted and refuted countless times before.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
going on...
You can feel the wind in your skin.
Very good.
to conclude my analogy, please could you answere if you believe in love?
Do you love someone, parents, friends, or fall in love for somebody?
Yes i have and this can be emperically tested. Love is a phisological reaction. We can detect the hormones that cause these hormones. You are trying to get to the point of something I believe in that isn't emperically testable. I believe you cannot. If you found one i would discard it.
Emotion is an abstract idea of biological reactions and thus the biological reaction is testable. Please read others who have disproved this idea if what i have said doesn't make since.
Sorry, as I am new I didn't have time enought to read everything in this forum
emperically, you can't prove that He doesn't exist, neigther exist.
Here is a good example: Person says, God told me he wants you dead, so its ok to kill you? Should I believe that which I cannot disprove and allow this person to kill or should I stop him/her?
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
htere is a difference, because Zeus, Thor or any other that you choose you have a sculpture to have little idea about it.
what about wind, love, passion?
Do you have any idea how it is?
Let think about God.
You never see it, and you can't describe it.
Let think about the wind.
You don't see the wind and you can fell it in your skin
Let think about love?
do you have any idea how is the correct form?
What about "miss" do you know how to describe fisically miss?
You can't describe how is anything that I listed for you.
What about God.
Have you ever seen God?
No
Have you ever tryed to feel God?
You really have sure that he does't exist?
If you have sure why try to prove that he doesn't exist?
I'll give you a example
I don't believe in ET.
I just listen what people say, but I never try to prove the oposit I just inore it, because when people normaly doesn't belive in something ignore all, not try to prove the opposite
Words on paper is the only things you have, and the same could be said for any fictional character. I have never see/felt/heard/smelled/ or tasted( I don't know what that would mean) a god. Burden of proof is on those who make a positive claim. I say I don't believe you claim that god exists, since then I am still waiting for the proof you have. Unless you can prove that all the other gods don't exists. There is a difference between stating god doesn't exist and I don't have evidence for a god, and therefor shouldn't believe it exists.
[Edit:] In responce to your example. Once those ET believers try to tell you want you can and cannot do because the ET told them so, you should change your tune. You can believe what you want, I will call you irrational if you don't have evidence for it. I bet you ignored all those cults and their fruit punch too, save yourself and no one else is your motto?
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
Which god? How do you know its not Zeus or Demeter? Why do you think it just so happens to be the god you believe in?
You cannot empirically test 'god'. It is impossible to apply the scientific method to 'god'.
Please do a little research on these forums, at least.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
It's called burden of proof. the burdern is always on the claim(the theist). always always always.
As with wind, we have evidence of the corresponding physical manifestation of feelings like love. This appeal from emotion doesn't support a metaphysical premise.
Why doubt the historicity of the bible? Because we can, through repeatable experiments, gather data which is contradictory of its claims. Ask a geologist, an archeologist, an historian, a biologist; the claims the bible makes about the world are simply not correct. The claims of Genesis are mind-bendingly absurd, and there isn't a contemporary historical account of Jesus having existed. Which is odd considering the grand claims made about this figure. We have stories which predate the Jesus figure, suggesting his is only the latest incarnation of an ancient hero myth. There's no getting around the implications of finding other supposed deities with the same story repeated throughout history, but in some ways contradictory of the Jesus story.
If you want to, without evidence, entertain the possibility that the bible is accurate, you also have to justify treating it uniquely. Why the bible over the thousands of other collected mythologies? Where does one draw the line on what ideas they'll allow to interfere with their lives?
You told that you've never felt God right?
If you never felt, you can't prove anything.
I'm from Brazil, and here we have a fruit that we call açaí have you ever tasted it?
IF you never tasted you can say that it doesn't exist? or you never saw, tought or tasted you can say how it is, how good it is ok?
Then you can say, But if I see in the internet I can find informations about that, I can see pic or I can go for one place that have and buy it.
LEt me tell you something.
If you search in internet you can find milions and milions information about God , not only in internet, but whatever where you want.
You don't really know God, so you can't know what kind of feeling I'm telling you
It's not just a feel, or just words.
If one day, you SAy that you want feel God with faith you will feel.
So you told "It is impossible to apply the scientific method to 'god'. "
God is not scientifc...
AS sadness and happiness isn't eighther.
The science can tell, there is a hormony that produce it, but can't tell why the hormony do it.
The science can't prove to you the felling like miss, solitude, happines, sadness or whatever emotion, they just can prove the hormony wich causes it, but not the reazon.
May I tell you.... The bible can show you it.
You believe or not, if you read it, unprejudice, you will see the history proved that, the feelings proved that.
But, you have to read, not only read trying to prove the opposite
Sorry, I didn't understand what do you mean by that
I have a question here.
How Jesus couldn' exist and the history has been changed?
The callendar is before Crist, and after Crist?
If it was a fiction, how could changed the calendar?
For example.
Zeus didn't change the calendar,
Buda didn't change the calendar
Maomé didn't change the calendar.
except Jew callendar is different
So why all the world live under Gregorian Calendar if Jesus didn't exist and changed the History?
Does anybody know?
Follow the pattern in the sentances below, I'll start off with a "blank" in the first. Pay attention to the pattern, not the names.
1. How do you know "blank" does not exist?
2. How do you know "Allah" does not exist?
3. How do you know "Yahwey" does not exist?
5. How do you know "Vishnu" does not exist?
6. How do you know "Isis" does not exist?
7. How do you know "Thor" does not exist?
By following the pattern it is easy to see that anyone can make a claim. So it is absurd to default to something existing just because someone claimed it, otherwise you would have to litterally believe in all those claims above.
The point of showing you that pattern is to demonstrate the fallacy you are commiting. The reality is that the burdon of proof is on the person making the claim.
If I came up to you and said, "Allah is the one true God"
You would, or should rightfully respond, "Ok, I hear you claim that, what is your evidence".
You wouldnt merely accept Allah's existance based on an utterance.
This is not an attack on the right to a belief. This is pointing out a fallacy in use of logic. Most laymen theists of all labels commit this fallacy.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I never sad : Allah doesn't exist.
Neighter any other names that you show.
if you ask a muslin, have you ever feel allah in your heart? They will say No. They will tell you that only will really know allah when he goes to the paradise.
I'm telling you because I've already done this question.
IF you ask a cristiam, have you ever feel God?
Everyone will say YEs.
See a difference like God and Allah.
You just believe in God if you want.
In Country from Medium Orient if you are not muslin you can be died.
you have to be muslin , you must to " belive" in what they want. Completely different
the Cristian beliefs don't force you anything, you do if you want, you believe if you want.
But it's necessary to know that whathever happen with you is your decision, not a punish for God.
You choose and you accept the concequence.
It wasn't until the early mideval period that a monk guessed at when Jesus was supposedly born (and that the Earth was created 4004 years earlier.) "AD" and "BC" weren't widely used for a long time afterward (most people still used "such and such a year of such and such a king's reign."
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
The burden of proof is up to you. You are the one who is making claim that god exists. I see no evidence for god, therefore I don't think god exists. It's up to you to provide evidence of god.
I also sent you PM about Ron Wyatt. Even the Christian community thinks he's a fraud.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Do you control your life?
You are able to decide how long you'll live?
when you will die?
[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]I'm not quite sure how the fact that I can't choose to die has anything to do with god. It's called a life span. Some species have very long life spans (parrots, turtles) some have very short life spans (I believe a fly only lives for about 24 hours). This does not prove god in any way whatsoever.
[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]
If god takes life he's an indian giver
you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?
[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]
sorry i think it should be thus:
It's called burden of proof. the burdern is always on the claimant(the theist). always always always.
In other words the person who makes the postive claim must prove that claim. sorry i think leaving the ant off is what i messed up
I porpouse you deal
If you prove to me that you can decide for sure how many years you still be alive.
and nothing wrong will happen in the middle way.
But you have to prove it as 2+2 = 4
then I'll give up God.
If you not prove it to me, I'll challenge you to ask God make you feel a prove of His existence, inside you, inside your heart, not only a emotion, but to show inside you that what HE do is real!
Do you agree?
It's too heavily slated in your favor (even if I could actually provide the information you want)
You want a concrete proof from us and expect us to settle for a warm fuzzy feeling from your God?
You really don't have this "burden of proof" thing down, do you?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I am not seeing the relavence of proving how long my life is to disproveing as you say god. Also since 2 + 2 =4 is a deductive statement it would be impossible to do so with my life because you can't make deductive statements. Since as a deductive argument can be made into a tautology, as todangst has shown in other threads .
When i say tautology i mean
So i can not show you basically by defination how long I will live because i can't make it true by defination which is basically what it says about what a tautology is. 2 + 2=4 is true becuase we have defined it that way.
So you proposed an impossible thing to do so the second part is irrelevent but i'll talk about it.
Humans have the ability to dedule them self into believeing false things. Its the idea behind affirmations. You say something so often to your self it becomes true. So that is what i say to your second part.
edit: i messed up the formatting. Still a bit messed up I think (mod help?) tried to fix it besti can though
[Mod edit - fixed quote]
If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.
[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]
If god takes life he's an indian giver
I'm not trying to prove anything for you.
I believe in God, I feel Him .
I see what He can do in my life.
I'm just trying to you that the life isn't
rational. Because if it was we could count every single day in our life. and we can't
simple like that
On the contrary, life is rational. It's the Invisible Friend add on that messes things up.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?
well you didn't answered me
[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]
If life is rational, why people get sad?
why people cry
why people miss someone?
why people die?
why people fall in love?
We SO need the asshat pic now.
Natural, biological responses.
How does the Sky-daddy make life more rational?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin