You can choose what you find to be true? Thats a niffty trick. Does that mean you can choose to find something true that you don't think is true? I know it sounds confusing, but thats what it sounds like when you say people choose to have faith.

Yes. What is truth for an athiest? Is there any such thing? Everyone has faith in something (yes, I know atheists scoff at this but they also have many irrational beliefs and ideas).

Regardless, what you actually seem to be criticizing is a "blind faith". I think that people of religion do more than you think they do. They hear of ancient traditions from people they trust. They see truth in the words of those traditions and in the world around them. They see the meaninglessness of life without God, just as Solomon the first existentialist philosophy. Their faith is not quite as "blind" as some would like to portray it. There is "data" the encourages them in that decision to have faith.

This is not far afield from what many do with respect to evolution. They take ancient data and recent observations and extrapolate something bigger that they must believe on faith and that ancient data because they can't "macroevolution". It is by chosen faith in their interpretation of the data. That's ok with me. I also happen to believe in evolution, yes, even as a Christian.

It sounds confusing because people don't choose to believe in things they don't think are true.... If you don't think religion is "true", then you can't believe in it and being intellectually honest. However, there are many very intelligent people, regardless of bogus atheist statistics, that are also people of religion...and for good reasons.

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes] 

I guess my ultimate point has been borne out by this website....

There are no true freethinking leaders in the "freethinking anonymous" forum.  You can't be a true freethinker and exclude free thought from your forum.

 It just goes to prove, absolutely, that the "Freethinking anonymous" forum is badly misnamed and should instead be either the "Atheist-Thinkers Only Forum" or the "Atheist Anonymous" (AA...hmmm...   ) forum.  (See...I told you I had a sense of humor, not that you'll like it any more than I like the "humor" of this website.)

Why do you think you have any right to come here and decide what forums should be named?  This is not your website and the owners of it have the right to name the forums whatever they want.  You  are allowed to post here for free and if they wanted to censor your posts (thoughts) they hardly need to close off one forum to you in order to do it.  The fact that this ridiculous thread has not been deleted should give you some clue about the fact that your thoughts (free or not) are welcome here.

The common definition of the word "freethinker" is tied to atheism so I fail to see why there is so much confusion about this.  Your posts do nothing more than provide another example of pushy theists wanting to have their cake and eat it too.  As a theist you are not allowed to post in ONE forum.  Why is this such an incredible problem for you?   

(1) I'm expressing my opinion.  Is that sort of free thought also discouraged here? 

(2)  I call out errors when I see them, especially when they are grevious errors made by those who consider themselves intelligent and elite merely by labelling themselves atheists.

(3) I can't make you change the erroneous name, so why are you worried?  Oh...it's because you see the dilemma and it causes some cognitive dissonance.   

 That's not the point, although I'd question whether my thoughts are really "welcome" here. 

It is a rude misnomer.  It is meant to place the atheist in a position of arrogance and self-importance, as if they are the only humans on earth who have it all figured out, as if they are the only ones who can think about the difficult issues of why we exist.  If you think this is the case, then you are sadly deluded and certainly not a "freethinker".

I've already stated my problem with it.  It is a misnomer.  It goes to show that pushy atheists (like those that this website is created by and for) don't have a corner on truth and reality.  In fact, they are often wrong and tend to use the same fallacies they continually throw at people of religion without really understanding them.  It's nice to dismiss someone's argumentation with a mere, theatrical wave of the the rhetorical hand. 

You didn't bring an argument. You claimed that those who lost faith didn't understand it in the first place.

That implies:

1. You fully understand faith.

2. Your understanding is the only correct one.

3. Anyone who doesn't understand it exactly the way your do never had it in the first place. 

Using a logical fallacy and being pompous about it doesn't do well toward anyone taking your argument seriously.

False analogy.

If I were to name my dog "cat", then you might have a point. 

Are you saying that the epithet, "Freethinker", has no more meaning than a mere name?  Or is it, rather, intended to show theists just how much more intelligent and thoughtful athiests are supposed to be? 

 If I named my dog "BGH-ain't-as-smart-as-he-thinks", would that be ok, or would you complain about it?  

No, true analogy. You do not own this site and have no say in what anything is named here. Hell, I would like it if 'Trollville' was named 'Fucking Retard Land', but again I do not own the site. 

Funny thing about that, I find out every day I am not as smart as I think I am, that is part of being a learner and a rational human being.  I would laugh at your dog's name though.

One should look up a definition of a word before they starting crying foul at the people who use it.  RRS is merely applying a term that is already in use.  

free·think·er       (frē'thĭng'kər)  Pronunciation Key 
n.   One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation.

No. YOU came HERE. WE did not come to YOU. I'll repeat what I have said to others - coming here is no different than entering someone's home. You were fully aware of the point of view of this site prior to coming here. If you don't like it and simply want to bitch about it - leave. If you don't like it and want to state a rational reason why, then by all means do so. So far, all you have done is whine and cry and carry on about how mean we are. You don't know any of us, but you made an assumption, got your panties in a twist about it and came here to spout off about it.

Oh no. Your behavior does not surprise me in the least. In fact it is quite typical.

And again - if you don't like it too bad. None of us really give a damn whether you like it or not. I don't like Jehovah's witnesses coming around and knocking on my door, but they do it anyway. I don't like the First Baptist Church sending me information in the mail to join their flock, but they do it anyway.

One more time - what gives you the right to come here and tell the owners of this site that they have to conform to your way of thinking?

You are right - it is a misconception. I am well outside of that age group. There are many others outside that age group as well.

You haven't presented an adult argument. In fact you remind me a lot of the arguments my children used to present when they were about five.

There are intelligent, honest theists that come here and post all of the time and I enjoy debating them and discussing issues with them. If you would like to take a bit more time and start reading threads instead of flapping your piehole you would already know that.

You can be a Theist and still regect religious dogma. That's what I do. I think for myself. If I find a flaw in my beliefs, I change them. I stay as close to the scientific method as I can with my beliefs. I must admit testing them isn't easy, but I certainly have some justification. In the event that I can be proven wrong, I would change my beliefs, and thank the one who changed my mind for moving me closer to the truth.

I don't come to find things true by faith, but I don't see what that has to do with the idea of truth. If everyone has faith how do you tell which faith is better?

Do you mean children are brought up to think something is true?

Present it.

Is that how you see science working? That makes reality real solid for you doesn't it...

So you can't choose what you think is isn't true?

And there are many very intelligent people who aren't a part of religion. Do you think saying X theist is smart is a good argument?

1. I find how more interesting. To 'who', I'd answer G_d, but my definition for G_d is very broad. My main reasons for believing in G_d come from personal experience. Over the past decade, I've been given very strong reasons to think that G_d exists, including something that was rather direct. Of course, that made me question my sanity, but because of the nature of the reasons, craziness would not suffice. In addition, the strange experiences have seemingly responded to my doubts, providing cases that explicitly demonstrate flaws in my own reasoning. I believe in a personal G_d for what I think is the only valid reason to do so. It's hard to not believe in something that you're losing a battle of wit to

2. No clue. For all I know, the purpose could be to find a purpose. Part of it, anyways

3. I don't know. I'm not even sure if there's any real difference between you and I other than our experience, or, if there is anything more to us than experience. Planning on what you'll do when you die is silly. People should be more concerned with what they'll do when they're living. That's one of my main complaints about Christianity. There's such a focus on the afterlife. I've been assured by a smart Christian friend that there's more to it than that, but I guess the average Christian doesn't bother to get much further than the candy at the door...

I'm Jewish, and have remained Jewish because I've found that many of my ideas of how things should work are teachings of Judaism. I don't blindly accept any of it. I agree with the focus on actions and deeds. The afterlife is barely mentioned at all.

On a more personal level, I believe that if I die before a certain event, that there will be an afterlife of some kind. That's a wild guess, based on a certain dream involving the future that has verified it's validity on about 3 seperate levels so far, with a major event that has yet to occur. If you want details on that, check my "Why I Believe" topic in Atheists vs Theists. Regardless of the supposed deity behind it, the whole thing has really made me question the structure if the universe.

Needless to say, I keep most of that stuff out of my general conversations I'm still in the process of figuring it out, and it's still in the process of growing.

I also don't expect random people on the internet to believe it, and would be very disappointed if anyone did without questioning. I'm trying to go about the whole thing as rationally as I can, and other perspectives can always help.

GOD, God, god, Jehovah, Yahweh, I am, Allah, etc.

I think this answers part of the dogma question. Don't you?

Good answer for a wannabe freethinker.

The last statement labels you. Sorry.

However, it appears those questions seem to be based upon assuming other things to be true.

I understand. I have to keep some things out of general conversations as a matter of life and I'm still questioning.

Likewise. Unfortunately, we weren't asking anyone else to believe anything. We were more concerned with what and why you believe whereas I hold to no particular beliefs while remaining open to all others.

I was really hoping that you might be the one case that challenged the freethinking 'barrier' with regard to theism.

Please understand. I don't doubt your experiences. My further question on this matter would be:

Did you stop looking for other causes of those experiences?

Next little question:

While I accept that there may be a god(of some sorts), Do you accept that there may not be a god?

Riverwind, don't be such a bitch man.  This is a privately owned forum, so they can prevent anyone they want from posting on the entire board for any or no reason at all.  Like it was said earlier, many Christian boards are only about 50% tolerant of non-Christians, sometimes less.  There's only one forum that they ask us to stay out of, and about 15 more that we're free to post in.  I don't see why you're making such a stink. 

See. Now imagine how free your thought would be if you rejected those things as 'beliefs' and analyzing them as human concepts.

There should always be 'wiggle room' but there is a huge difference between imagining god(s) and believing that one(or more) HAS to exist. 

I was also thinking of a more natural cause for your experiences.