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Yahweh/Jesus was a baby killer
Posted on: September 8, 2007 - 8:20am
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Yahweh/Jesus was a baby killer
An all knowing god created defective humans, so he could kill them later.
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Wow, thats a quality troll if I ever saw one. Anyone stupid enough to get fired up about this deserves the irritation.
Said god knew you you post this and hence is justified in "purifying" the genome.
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Yeah, pretty much.
Question for Atomic: Is that actually stated in the bible or inferred? I ask because I wonder, if it is stated in the bible, whether that contributes to how physically/mentally challenged people are treated by society or if that is human nature?
So god created defective humans so non-defective humans could kill them. That explains sooo much.
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Trolls post bullshit and misinformation. Yahweh/Jesus was a baby killer, among many other negative things.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
It's not stated in the bible in verses that I can think of. It's only a logical conclusion, if you believe that Yahweh/Jesus was an omnipotent, all knowing, supernatural being, responsible for human creation.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
When you say "god", are you referring to Yahweh/Jesus? This thread is addressing the Mideast god Yahweh/Jesus.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
This thread addresses nothing.
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This thread addresses the fact that Yahweh/Jesus was a baby killer, and gives people the option to discuss this issue. Your contributions to this post are what addresses nothing.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
I used the term "defective", to describe humans and souls that were created, with Yahweh/Jesus knowing they would use their freewill choices not to worship him/it.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
I think the real question, especially for chrisitians, is how a perfect entity (god) could create an imperfect being (man).
If the christians would like say man was perfect until the fall and use the freewill argument, please tell me how a perfect being created by god would be capable of making an imperfect 'choice'. Logically if something is perfect, it is without flaw and therefore is also incapable of flawed thinking.
Are you just angry that the world isn't Disney Land? People die... people die young, tragically, thats life man. (directed to o.p.)
Prior to the fall of man humans were not perfect, they were simply without the knowledge of right and wrong, hence references to the "tree of knowledge/life"
Let's be clear. Yahweh/Jesus is a fiction in your mind. The baby killers were humans. Sort of like the way humans behave even now. Belief in Yahweh/Jesus is not a necessary condition for baby killing. It is not even a universally sufficient condition as there are many that believe in Yahweh/Jesus that are not baby killers.
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Then the question follows, if your 'god' (yahweh) is perfect how could he then create something imperfect? You cannot use the argument that they had freewill because a perfect entity (god) could only create a being capable of a flawed decision (adam/eve) on purpose.
Therefore either this god of the bible deliberately made his creation flawed or this god is not 'perfect', which is it?
Basically this argument shows what a contradiction the god of the bible is and how completely illogical, incoherent and poorly thought out the mythology is.
If humans had no concept of right and wrong before the fall then the entire story only reveals the unjust and sadistic nature of yahweh. What could possibly be the point of punishing a person who not only didn’t know that they’ve done something wrong but didn’t even have an idea of the concept of right and wrong? The story aside from being a myth is paradoxical, adam and eve had to eat the apple before they could know that eating it was wrong.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
You seem to not understand the myth very well. They were told that eating the fruit was forbidden hence they already had knowledge of a specific wrong. Also, you are assuming that they commited acts of evil but were ignorant of the nature of the act. You could as easily assume that they never commited acts of evil until after they gained the knowledge of good and evil. Also, punishemnt was not part of the Garden of Eden. It was not until after the fall that Adam and Eve become subject to punushment because they had knowledge of the nature of their actions and hence had to bear the responsibility for their actions.
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Wavefreak, I think we understand the 'myth'. I think the point of the post was to show just how little sense it makes when you think about it (which is something most christians do not not do).
I was being expansively facetious. The problem is thatif you really expect to challenge the thinking of Christians, such a confrontational and apparantly ignorant appoach is useless. THere is no Christian dctrine that I am aware of that says god created humans so that he could punish them. Nor a claim that the Christian god is unjust when it is backed up with something such as what is offered in this thread. If the intent is to releive christians of their belief, it will take better than what is attempted here.
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As was the OP (I think). I understand that this argument will not win the hearts and minds, but I believe the OP was just trying to start conversation, though I might be wrong. We should probably let him explain his purpose with this thread.
Fair enough.
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"Let's be clear. Yahweh/Jesus is a fiction in your mind."
Yes, it/he is an everchanging story through history, and various cultures.
"The baby killers were humans."
No, not just humans. Yahweh/Jesus has many stories, where his own "hands" are bloody with the slaughter of humans and creatures of all types, along with the murder of humans and creatures by agents of his/it's design.
"Belief in Yahweh/Jesus is not a necessary condition for baby killing."
True....Nowhere in this thread, is this listed as a requirement.
"It is not even a universally sufficient condition as there are many that believe in Yahweh/Jesus that are not baby killers."
This is a no-brainer, and plainly obvious.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
That myth isn’t meant to be understood. It’s meant to be heard and accepted uncritically by the feeble minded. What good would knowledge of a specific wrong be if you didn’t know the difference between right and wrong?
Challenging the thinking of christans, is that supposed to be a joke? They would have to think first before I could challenge their thinking.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
To point out the evil and illogic that exists in religions, that most believers look away from, or try and bend their logic to make it seem nice or loving. To point out the death, suffering, ignorance, and intolerance these religions cause, even into modern times, in societies all over the world.
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
Irony.
Yup. He also allegeldy created the world which allowed us to exist if you believe that too which could kind of counterbalance things a little.
But hey, feel free to make inflammatory and selective statements if you want. Also what's with the picture? I could show a good number of horrible images portraying the activities of the Tamil Tigers or the variosu Soviet intelligence agencies if you want.
Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.
you should resize your image it's too big.
"Yup. He also allegeldy created the world which allowed us to exist if you believe that too ."
No, no way Jose....
"which could kind of counterbalance things a little."
No, it doesn't
"But hey, feel free to make inflammatory and selective statements if you want."
Yes, in this country, people cannot be stoned for speaking out against religion.
"I could show a good number of horrible images portraying the activities of the Tamil Tigers or the variosu Soviet intelligence agencies if you want."
So now you concede that some religious practices and beliefs, are on par with military and government agencies, to kill opposing beliefs and practices......good for you
"Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Jesus triad)
"So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey" (The Donkey) Numbers Chapter 22:30
Old news. History 101. So people like to hurt other people. No surprise. Humans are rather adept at justifying violence. Religion isn't necessary. Historically, it has been convenient. But eliminate religion (if you can do so non-violently) and other justifications will arise.
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Genesis
17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
12:17 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
20:18 For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Exodus
4:10 And Moses said unto the LORD, O my LORD, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.
4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.
4:25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
Leviticus
14:34 When ye be come into the land of Canaan, which I give to you for a possession, and I put the plague of leprosy in a house of the land of your possession;
20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
21:16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
21:17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
21:18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
21:19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
21:20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21:21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
22:4 What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him;
22:5 Or whosoever toucheth any creeping thing, whereby he may be made unclean, or a man of whom he may take uncleanness, whatsoever uncleanness he hath;
26:16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
Numbers
3:2 And these are the names of the sons of Aaron; Nadab the firstborn, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
3:3 These are the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office.
3:4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.
3:10 And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
5:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
5:2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:
5:3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.
5:4 And the children of Israel did so, and put them out without the camp: as the LORD spake unto Moses, so did the children of Israel.
14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
14:29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me.
17:12 And the children of Israel spake unto Moses, saying, Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish.
31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
33:4 For the Egyptians buried all their firstborn, which the LORD had smitten among them: upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments.
Deuteronomy
2:32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz.
2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LOR
23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
23:10 If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the camp:
23:11 But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again.
24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
28:41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.
28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
30:7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
32:42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Samuel
3:12 In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end.
3:13 For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
24:14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.
24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
Joshua
5:2 At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time.
5:3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
6:26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the LORD, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it.
7:24 And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them unto the valley of Achor.
7:25 And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.
Judges
11:29 Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.
11:30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
11:31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
11:32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.
11:33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.
11:34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
11:35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
11:36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
11:37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
11:38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel
19:25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
19:26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
19:27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
19:28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
19:29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
1 Kings
14:10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
What the Bible says about Blind People
What the Bible says about Handicapped People
What the Bible says about Amputation
But Adonibezek fled; and they pursued after him, and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and his great toes." -- Judges 1:4-6
(See also Matthew 18:8-9 and Mark 9:43-47)
What the Bible says about Children
YA RLY!
So no existence is better than a few enemies of the Lord gettign stiffed then?
Your point is?
I always did, Sport. I just don't look at one side of the coin.
Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.