PLEASE MAKE
SURE TO
FOLLOW THE
RULES!
RULES
This is the
Kill Em
With
Kindness
Forum!
PLEASE MAKE
SURE TO
FOLLOW THE
RULES!
RULES
This is the
Kill Em
With
Kindness
Forum!
PLEASE MAKE
SURE TO
FOLLOW THE
RULES!
This is the
Kill Em
With
Kindness
Forum!
RULES
PLEASE MAKE
SURE TO
FOLLOW THE
RULES!
This is the
Kill Em
With
Kindness
Forum!
PLEASE MAKE
SURE TO
FOLLOW THE
RULES!
RULES
This is the
Kill Em
With
Kindness
Forum!
PLEASE MAKE
SURE TO
FOLLOW THE
RULES!
When did you become a believer?
I was probably about 17ish. I originally believed, somewhat strictly, out of curiosity. Theology makes promises of enlightenment, freedom, truth and such. and, of course, the asking price for such life adventures is a leap of faith, so I took it, and believed, in particular in the specific tenets "seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall recieve".
Was a period of intense study needed prior to a transition into, or affirmation of, your beliefs?
Yes. i'm not sure how to qualify that, though I think I should do just to be clear. I studied indeed, and intensely also, but I didn't think to be told what to study or how to study it. And I think this is important in that it goes to my first answer. In my curiosity I chose to trust something, that contract was between me and god, if god himself couldn't justify it to me I was not going any where else for backup.
If applicable, at what age(s) were you born again?
This applies to me somewhat, I think. and I would say, not yet, not quite.
Is the Old Testament still a prescription for behavior? If not, why?
(although this is only applicable in a small way to my beliefs I will answer) No it isn't. And because is : I think it's made abundantly clear in the second half of that book there is only one reasonable prescription for behaviour.
Do you consider yourself a member of a religion?
No.
Do you consider faith a non-contingent belief? If not, why?
No I don't. See - my answer to the first two questions.
I have additional points to make here though about the meaning of the word faith. Faith is purported to acheive ends. For example, a mustard seed of faith to move a mountain. There is an interesting paradox at work here, faith is supposed to do miracles, if it doesn't then it's not faith - that is contingent. If it does, then it is by nature non-contingent. Fascinating no? Okay, so before Todangst comes down here with the logical equivalence of a sledgehammer I had better get that to make some sense. It really is simple, either faith is the equivalent of a property intrinsic to the psyche or it's impossible. (and note that is not at odds with theology since psyche and soul are ancient synonyms). If some non-contingent property of the psyche can construct from a contingent set, one outcome then in our world there must be some evidence in our world of blind experiments with prodigious outcomes. Oh... that's right, there is.
Is your concept of a god or gods omniscient? omnipresent? omnipotent? omnibenevolent?
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
And before someone debates me, please note that my definitions of these are far less anthropomorphic, in the classical sense, than yours probably are.
If applicable, how do you experience your god(s)? What convinces you of its/their existence?
Answering this question would take all week. Suffice it to say My world, my life and I are on personal terms.
If you don't believe in evolution, can you give a brief description of what it is?
Now I sort of believe in evolution, not insofar as being the origins of life. The description I would give: it is valid exploration of the human state.
If you consider Creationism/Intelligent Design scientific theories, what future evidence can we expect to reinforce their hypotheses?
No. I don't support apologetics.
If you consider Creationism/Intelligent Design scientific theories, what potential applications do they have?
ID might have the potential to raise the general level of cognisance in religious consciousness. I guess.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
www.mathematicianspictures.com
I was Christian until High School, then atheist, then about a year ago, my current beliefs.
Somewhat. Some study is needed to justify it.
Not really, but if people ask I usually respond Christian.
No, it could change.
I'm not sure about the omniscient. The others yes, but depending on the defenition.
Science.
Science and wonder.
[Bump]
I was raised Catholic. Pretty serious about until my late teens, then felll away from religion atogether. I became pretty agnostic, lenaing toward a vague acknoledgement of some sort of deity. I spent about 20 years like that. As a result of a kinda "spritual awakening", I started experimenting with religions, Quaker (because my wife was, oddly enough since she was married to a soldier), Presbyterian (mostly as a compromise with her so that we could worship together). I reaized all along that neither one really satisfied what I really believed. The Presbyterians, I think, actually dreaded me coming to Bible study, because they knew I was haulign my Catholic views around with me still. After her death, I returned to Catholicism.
Yeah. I really gave Cavinism a try, but found it wanting before my reversion to Catholicism.
By water and the Spirit in infancy.
No...and yes.
First, no. With the coming of Christ, the Law of Moses was abrogated even for the Jewish people. Jesus "canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross" (Col. 2:14). Paul tells us that we must " let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ" (Col. 2:16). Rather than fulfilling the Law of Moses, Paul points us toward fulfilling the Law of Christ: "To those outside the [Mosaic] law I became as one outside the [Mosaic] law—not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ—that I might win those outside the [Mosaic] law" (1 Cor. 9:21). He wrote also, "Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2).
Now, yes. The Roman Catechism explains it thus, "The other Commandments of the Decalogue are precepts of the natural law, obligatory at all times and unalterable. Hence, after the abrogation of the Law of Moses, all the Commandments contained in the two tables are observed by Christians, not indeed because their observance is commanded by Moses, but because they are in conformity with nature which dictates obedience to them.
"This Commandment about the observance of the Sabbath, on the other hand, considered as to the time appointed for its fulfillment, is not fixed and constant, but changeable, pertaining not so much to mores but to ceremonies. Neither is it a principle of the natural law; we are not instructed by nature to give external worship to God on that day, rather than on any other. And in fact the Sabbath was kept holy only from the time of the liberation of the people of Israel from the bondage of Pharaoh."
Take a guess. LOL
I'm not sure I understand he concept of contingent and non-contingent beliefs.
Don't forget transcendent, but yeah.
I experience my God through prayer, particularly through prayer in the sacrifice of the Mass and in the presence of Jesus in he Blessed Sacrament. I practice the Carmelite form of sprituality taught by St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross and followed by St Therese of Lisieux and St Edith Stein. This involves emptying one's self of attachment to creatures and reaching a state of contemplative prayer, that is being able to enter directly into the presence of God through prayer.
As for the existence of God, the traditional Thomistic proofs work well for me. Perhaps it's just the effects of my mind disorder, but many of the attempts to argue around, or through Aquinas reasoning by atheists seems like semantic gymnatics. Ol' Tom did a pretty good job, I think.
I'm gonna my response to these questions to expand some on my beliefs on Creation.
I think that regardless of the time period, whether seven days or 15 billion years, the universe in which we live is awesome and miraculous. Believers must realize that the Scriptures are not a science text, nor did the writers ever intend them to be. The point of the Creation accounts is to teach that God was the originator of the universe. He intended its existence. Humanity (and probably any other rational life forms who could possibly existing in it) are pinnacle of His creation, are especially designed by Him.
"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." (Kris Kristofferson)
I'm nitpicking here because of your usage of the word convincing. What do you mean? Convincing for you? Convincing for the majority of the scientific community? Convincing for a Christian?
Because, yes, there is a convincing scientific theory as to the origin of the materials that comprise the universe, or to what caused the Big Bang.
Edit: By convincing, I mean for the scientific community.
Edit Edit: Please guys, lets keep it on topic. I would really hate to see this thread turn into a discussion about origin. I am simply curious as to what he means by convincing.
Fair nitpick, I do like to play with words. I should have said "scientific proof" perhaps (although scientists used to believe in phlogiston, right?)
As I understand it there is only speculation as it relates to the 'Augustinian era' and no scientific consensus.
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." (Kris Kristofferson)
1. I was raised Catholic, but we were "Easter/Christmas" Catholics. When I started dating my (now) wife, I went to her church (charismatic/evangelical/"seeker" ). There, I "asked Jesus into my heart". A couple years later, I realized I was a false convert, and had never been a Christian. That was two years ago.
2. During my time as a false convert, I worked very hard to be a "proper" believer. It was during this time that I came to a proper understanding of the Gospel. I wouldn't describe this as "necessary". I would call it, "the hard way"
3. ~30
4. No, the Old Testament was given to the nation of Israel. The New Testament fulfills the Old, and is better.
5. Yes (non-denominational, Bible-based Christian)
6. No. My belief is based on "trust". Trust that God keeps His Word.
7. Yes
8. I experience God primarily through reading the Bible. Any other experience must be viewed in light of what is spelled out in the Bible.
9. I learned evolution in my Catholic high school. Since coming to a right understanding of God, my "faith" (trust) in evolution has been damaged. Evolution can mean different things to different people. I believe micro-evolution is undeniable. My main concern is with "common descent" from a single organism.
10/11. Ultimately, creationist efforts are a form of apologetics.
[bump]
what would be an example of God not keeping his word? what could God do to break this trust?
Ethics and aesthetics are one
-Wittgenstein
I think this question means, is there anything that would cause you to change your beliefs in/of (I guess in your case) the Catholic Church, or of God in general; are your beliefs contingent upon requirements being met by the Catholic Church/God?
Please correct me if I've got the meaning wrong;
Ethics and aesthetics are one
-Wittgenstein
[bump]
Thanks for indulging me. I appreciate the responses so far.
Crap, we lost some in the crash.
[bump]
Got some fresh theist chub for you right here. Be gentle, i'm new.
BTW i REALLY hate being called a theist rather than a Christian. It's like being called a european instead of English. Accurate but vexing
When did you become a believer?
Bout 7 years ago
Was a period of intense study needed prior to a transition into, or affirmation of, your beliefs?
I would'nt really say intense study. Some. But it was pretty peripheral
If applicable, at what age(s) were you born again?
22ish
Is the Old Testament still a prescription for behavior? If not, why?
No. Because much of it is at odds with the NT. And because there are places where the NT specifically superceeds the OT. THerefore i presume a progression of morality parallelling the development of society.
Do you consider yourself a member of a religion?
Bit. Ish. Some days. Mainly not.
Do you consider faith a non-contingent belief? If not, why?
Sorry, don't understand the question.
Is your concept of a god or gods omniscient? omnipresent? omnipotent? omnibenevolent?
Yes, yes, yes by definition and yes but only after some thought
If applicable, how do you experience your god(s)? What convinces you of its/their existence?
Looooong story. A combination of a perception in my subconcious, a consistancy with some elements of the bible (yes, some, not all, have fun with that), and a load of other stuff i shan't bore you with.
If you don't believe in evolution, can you give a brief description of what it is?
NA. I beleive in evolution
If you consider Creationism/Intelligent Design scientific theories, what future evidence can we expect to reinforce their hypotheses?
They are not scientific theories. As i suspect you know you scamp.
If you consider Creationism/Intelligent Design scientific theories, what potential applications do they have?
See above.
Hope this helps.
Can i ask you one back?
Is the support of RRS for you or anyone, mainly based in the approval of atheism, or the disapproval of religion. What is the motivator for you?
Is it just my imagination, or do we keep losing posts?
Server crashed again.
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I grew up in a family that had mixed feelings about religion. Mom loved church and dad hated going but was still a believer until his late 30’s. I was introduced to many churches in my pre-teens and finally made the decision on my own, against my families wishes, to join the LDS (Mormon) church. I would say that is when I truly became a believer.
I wouldn’t call it an intense study. I did have to have the missionaries to my home for several lessons to teach me things I didn’t know and to ask me if these things felt right to me. I was NEVER pushed into the church or into religion. It was done by choice.
I believe that you can only be “born again” once. That is when you first choose to be baptised. I chose that at the age of 13. Partaking of a sacarament is the renewal of those baptismal covienants, therefore you do not need to be baptised “born again” over and over.
As a Christian, when Christ died, he took on all the sin of the world; making each of us automatically forgiven if we ask for forgiveness to Heavenly Father. The Ten Commandments are guidelines so to speak. There is only one prescription for behavior and we all know the famous line “What Would Jesus Do?”.
Absolutely.
Yes I do. Faith has been around since the beginning of man. Whether it be in religion or not. Do you not have faith getting on an airplane that you will safely arrive to your destination or that the medical doctor performing surgey on you today will do his job correctly and you will wake up healthier than before? Having faith is more than just a religious concept.
My Heavnely Father (I say mine, because, everyone believes differently) is a wonderful man. He is here whenever I need him. He sees everything I do and keeps an eye on things. He has endless and undieing power over all living things. To answer your question – He is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and benevolent.
I experience my Heavenly Father through many things. Reading scripture, prayer, family gatherings, church, faith, love…the list can go on. I KNOW he is with me always because I can feel it in my heart. If you’ve ever felt that warm tingle within your chest and became overwhelmed by something so great, that is HIM.
I believe in both evolution and creationism. Call me weird but it is possible for both to be. Things do evolve over time. However, no one KNOWS how the evolution process works or why it happens. There may be many theories but we’ll only know how to prove those theories right or wrong through studying, praying and having faith in your beliefs. I know that each human being has a soul and was given by only Him. God created everything. I believe that with all my heart. There is a wonderful article called “Seek Ye Diligently” by George R. Hill III. You can see the article here: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=42849209df38b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
I’m going to agree with totus_tuus on these two questions.Quote:
Well said totus_tuus!
.::Proud to be an American Christian::.
Thanks, Temple. Just to set the record straight, I'm firmly in the 15 billion year camp. One of the most destructive ideas to come out of the Reformaton is the whole idea of sola scriptura. It's obviously a broken concept. Where faith and reason clash, there is something wrong with our interpretation of the faith, and we need to examine our theology, not deny the science.
BTW, your post on your marriage quandry is quite interesting and touching. I pray for you daily.
"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II
Past few months.
Very. I was a strong atheist for some time before having personal experiences which are not easily explainable without some kind of God.
18
Yes and no. 10 Commandments are a go, but the rest of it is laws made by the Israelites trying to interpret the 10 laws.
Not necessarily.
No. One must have a reasonable faith, not a blind one.
Omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, but not necessarily omnipresent.
Through prayer. The answer of said prayers, some immediately.
I don't mind evolution, I do realize I will get my but kicked by DG if I go on a crusade against it. I see no problem with it in relation to a God, and people are stupid to relate evolution to atheism.
Possibly the rapture (or such events as described in the Bible), or some way of God giving us irrefutable evidence of His existence.
None really, if one believes that the world was created we get no scientific value out of it, nothing to be applied to the world other than the fact that we were created.
Sorry it took me so long to do this Magillum. Here are my answers
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