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This is the beauty of atheism. I think you can believe in whatever you wanted However, I tend to be cautious of anything that seems absolute. I think evidence clearly points to an infinite universe with infinite possiblities. Quantum theory suggests so.
"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."
That's one who leans towards the infinite. Is anyone for sure on what they think?
P.S. I'm glad you posted, RationalSchema. I would like to use this space to apologize. I must have gotten mad and I probably spouted off random bullshit and nonsense on that earlier thread. I really don't want to look back on it. Heh, I'm sorry.
It kind of depends on how you define infinate. Are you talking temporally or physically?
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
As in has the physical matter of the universe always been or did it have a beginning of time?
I know this might sound like a dodge, Dylan. However, my answer has always been: "I don't know, but let's find out." I think that, more often than not, will be the answer that you will get from atheists.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
I actually like your answer, Darth Josh.
Not only is Darth a wise man, I agree with him!
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I actually theorize that it's a bit of both. Bear with me here as I explain.
As far back as we are able to trace, the universe today began with a singularity which resulted in the big bang. Once that occurred matter was scattered throughout the vastness of space and is still travelling at an incredible rate. As we all know gravity is not only what keeps our feet planted on this big ball of dirt as it's flying through space, but it also makes us revolve around the sun; utterly chaotic gravity results in black holes. I theorize that super massive black holes will begin to revolve around eachother, eventually combining to form another singularity resulting in another big bang.
Now the reason I state that I think it's a bit of both is because if my theory is correct then the next big bang would result in the formation of another universe. However, matter can not be created nor destroyed - only changed - therefore while it is a new universe the matter contained is infinite.
I'd like to answer this.
Yes/No
Yes/No
Of course you know atheism isn't suggestive of personal beliefs beyond the eponymous (which isn't really a belief). Speaking for myself, I have no idea. I'm open to theories but I'll refrain from speculation.
I can't speak for anybody else, but as far as I've seen from distillations of the currently available evidence I am inclined to believe that the universe is finite. A much more interesting question to me is whether space-time is discrete or continuous and to that I can offer no personal opinion.
Of course, I could certainly have my opinion turned around if the weight of evidence changes or if I learn that I've misunderstood the existing evidence.
My response has been hinted at by others, but I'm going to make it explicit.
What does atheism have to do with this question? Nothing. Atheism doesn't necessarily prescribe any beliefs about cosmology. Atheism is simply a lack of "god belief."
Moreover, I don't even think theist, such as Christians, have to believe in one or the other.
Sorry if I sound cross, but I'm tired of questions like, "Do atheist believe in [insert something that's independent of being an atheist]?"
Interesting question though, Dylan. I think the universe is finite.
Interesting theory AnointedHeathen. I think I get from it though that you think the universe is finite, but now it will never end.
MrRage, I understand your annoyance. However, when I release my other threads, I will try to explain why this question is important.
Dylan, I really liked your thread. I'm no physicist but this subject interests me quite a lot.
I don't know exactley what kind of person you are, but if you're really interested in knowing what the latest theories are (if you don't already), I recomend you watch these videos:
The Elegant Universe Part 1: Einstein's Dream (1/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 1: Einstein's Dream (2/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 1: Einstein's Dream (3/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 1: Einstein's Dream (4/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 1: Einstein's Dream (5/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 2: String's The Thing (1/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 2: String's The Thing (2/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 2: String's The Thing (3/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 2: String's The Thing (4/5)
The Elegant Universe Part 2: String's The Thing (5/5)
The Elegant Universe 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension (1/5)
The Elegant Universe 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension (2/5)
The Elegant Universe 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension (3/5)
The Elegant Universe 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension (4/5)
The Elegant Universe 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension (5/5)
These explain very thoroughly the theory I subscribe to (M-Theory), which is capable of explaining many aspects of our universe, from the big-bang to the behaviour of single atoms. It is pretty interesting if you are interested ;D
Based on this, I believe the universe as we know it had a beginning and will have an and (and is not unique, for that matter), but energy and time are continuous.
http://youtube.com/phillipetrindade - Reasonable dialogue about atheism. Please visit, rate it and comment. Thanks!
Oh, man. I had to search out this thread, because I hadn't noticed that Dylan was posting a series of questions. As it happens, I answered the question about cause before looking at this one.
I had high hopes for his next thread, but after reading this, and realizing the two questions are meant to lead to a point, I'm feeling a bit let down.
If this is another unmoved mover/first cause/watchmaker/infinite regress line of thinking, I'm not even going to bother responding to the next one.
But, Dylan, for the record, I am not a cosmologist, so I don't actually "believe" that the universe is infinite or finite. I simply don't have enough data to form an opinion. Out of the theories I'm familiar with, the multiverse sounds really cool, so I'd like that one to be true. My preference, of course, has nothing to do with anything, so I'm afraid I've just wasted two minutes of your life by making you read this.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Thank you very much. This looks extremely interesting.
And Hambydammit, I'm sorry you feel that way. And I'm not going to explain why the multiverse theory is flawed yet, and I don't know if I even will, because that would only ruin my flow of questions.
However, I will say one thing. I will not tell you what I believe. I will only ask questions to see what you believe.
Thank you again, Scotch.
I would say the energy contained within the visible universe has always existed in some form or another. Whether or not the universe is the limits of existance is unknown. I do not think that time or existance began. I'm not certain of this, but the evidence suggests as much.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Thank you, Vastet. Good response.
Apology accepted and I would like to extend the same to you. However, I would ask that you be more clear about what your saying at times. Not in this thread, but in our previous thread.
I would also like to stress the idea of many posters here in that atheism would not hold anybody to one idea or the other the belief in this theory or that theory. I do like Darth Josh's answer.
"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."
The only thing atheists believe is that there is no God. Thus to ask this question is meaningless because the answer is: We hitherto do not know. Two theoretical physicists might wholly differ in their opinions on the subject. Let us assume they are both atheist (a very high probability among theoretical phyicists). This small example shows why the question has no inherent meaning.
If atheists believe in no God, the only other thing that unites their beliefs is they require scientific evidence to answer questions. But no conclusive scientific evidence can be fully drawn about the universe singularity.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Yep, yep, yep.
I was trying to make deludedgod's point in my response. Maybe I was trying too hard to be subtle, or something.
My belief (or actually, my lack of a belief since I simply don't know) is pretty irrelevant, but I'm happy to tell you what I'd like to be true.
Frankly, none of it has anything to do with anything. Regardless of how the universe as we know it came to exist, it does, in fact, exist, and the Christian god is still illogical, as are Allah, Zeus, and 10,000 other gods. The origin of the universe is simply not connected to any of them in any way.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Well, it has relevance to me. So... that's that.
And I know atheists aren't tied down to a set of beliefs. That's why I said, in both my threads, that if you didn't agree you should write down your differing views.
That's why I gave you my thoughts. I just like the multiverse theory because it sounds cool. That's it. I don't base any of my life around whether or not it's true, nor do I particularly care if it's true.
And for the record, if you're not heading towards some cosmological proof of the existence of a deity, I do sincerely apologize for pre-emptively ignoring your non-existent theory.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Apology accepted. I'm sorry for giving the impression of trying to find a solution using cosmology. I guess RationalSchema was right and I should try to clarify things, like for this... I'm just asking questions. Questions, in fact, that will help me determine my stand among theists and atheists.