Atheist definitions:

No god belief.

Lack of belief in a god. 

 No not all atheist believe those thing.  The only requirement has already been stated.  Lack belief in god.

Awesome! I'm going to do my best to give you unbiased answers, and here's the way you can verify that I'm telling the truth. Don't believe me. Do your own reading and discover for yourself that what I'm about to say is true.

We don't know how the universe formed.

That's it.

Disappointed? Well, there's a little more to it than that. We have some theories. It's kind of difficult to explain most of them, because they involve cosmology, quantum physics, and some intensely difficult math. Suffice it to say, some of the best minds in the world are working on it, but so far, we haven't been able to prove any theories correct.

So, where does that leave us? That's really what you're asking, isn't it? What do we believe if we don't know the answer to the question, "How did the universe get here?"

Well, holley, the logical answer is....

Nothing.

There's not enough compelling evidence for any of the theories to say that they're overwhelmingly likely.

Forgive me for a second, but I have to pull out some logic to make the important point. There's something in logic called "argument from ignorance." Basically, if someone says, "I don't know how such and such happened, so it must have happened this way," that's an argument from ignorance.

Imagine that you ask me how barbed wire is made. I don't actually know the answer, so I say, "holley, I don't know. So, it makes sense that fairies make it in workshops on top of my neighbor's house when everyone is asleep."

Would you believe me? Why not? Because that's a dumb reason to believe something... What kind of answer is, I don't know, therefore, fairies must have done it? It's illogical, and pretty crazy, actually.

But that's what theists do. They say, "You can't explain how the universe was formed. Therefore, god exists."

See? It's the same thing.

The sad reality is that the formation of the universe has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not god exists. If god exists, or if he doesn't exist, the universe still exists. The two aren't related.

Ask yourself this, holley. If you just said to yourself, "I don't know how the universe was formed," and went to bed, would you wake up tomorrow? Of course! You could go to work, come home, feed the dog, kiss your boyfriend, watch tv... in short, nothing in your life depends on whether or not you know the answer to that question. Theists make it out to be important, but they do it in reverse. They say, "First, you must believe that god exists. Then, you must realize that since he exists, he created everything. Since he created everything, we must worship his son Jesus so that we can go to heaven when we die...."

What????!

Do you see the disconnect here?

What does Jesus have to do with the creator of the universe, if there even is one? How in the world do you get from one place to another?

The answer is that you don't. In logic, it's called a non-sequitur. It's like me saying, "I'm going to the store, and therefore my cat has fleas." My going to the store doesn't have anything to do with my cat having fleas, so that statement is ridiculous.

So, "We don't know how the universe was created. Therefore, believe in Jesus or burn in hell for eternity"

You see? Non-sequitur. One has nothing to do with the other.

We're all here to help.  Almost all of us have been where you are.  Don't be afraid to ask more questions, ok?

I've been there and done that.  It's hard work thinking for yourself.  People don't want to do the work. They want assurances about things they can't control. The answer of "goddidit" can even take away the fear of death.

Honestly seeking the truth is a lot harder, but it's better for you and better for society.  I wish you happy hunting.  

 I have been reading as much as I can here,but since I'm new, I still have a few questions.First, I understand that atheist don't believe in any God,and they all don't believe in Big Bang or evolution and they don't believe in evil or possession.

 What does an atheist believes happens to people when they die?

Also,I've been researching evolution and trying to really understand it,but to me I still don't understand that in the begining what happened first......Is that the Big Bang therory?Thanks, I hope I don't sound too retarded!!

 I'm just trying to understand this from a normal human point of view,rather than a christian/atheist/(or even too scientific) point of view......is that even possible,or do we have to pick a side?

Once again, the only thing that all atheists share is a lack of belief in god. When it comes to other beliefs, all bets are off (although I would like to see all atheists really try to be truth-seekers).

Technically, Buddhists are atheists. They don't believe in an all-powerful superbeing, but many of them believe in reincarnation. My voice teacher happens to be a Zen Buddhist.  Sometimes I find myself internally rolling my eyes when she talks about magical energy fields and reincarnation. That said, she is a wonderful person and I'm very glad to know her.

On this site, most of us try to be rational atheists. Notice I said "try." We don't always succeed. When I say "rational," I mean that we don't believe in outrageous claims without proof. In other words, most rational atheists don't believe in gods, reincarnation, mystic energy fields, New Age woo-wooism, etc. We want to have good reasons for believing what we believe and we want to be able to change our minds if good reasons are given.

I do not believe in life after death because there is no good reason to. The number one tactic religions use to keep people believing ridiculous claims is the fear of death. Since I was born into a fundamentalist Christian family and was raised fundy, giving up the idea that I would live forever was really hard for me. Making peace with the idea that this life is all there is took a lot of time.

I just wanted to say thank you for all your thoughtful reponses.I've been researching and thinking,trying to process all of this information.

Since I've been trying to read all this stuff on this site,it makes me realize that I guess we are just all a human race and aren't for sure either way about anything.It does make me sad though because it seems that people on both sides of the fence seem to be angry and defensive.I've seen cussing/name calling and put downs;I know it a hot topic and can be emotional on both sides  because it's your belief and all,but it just makes it hard for someone like me who's caught in the middle.I wish people could have grown up debates/talks;so everyone can take something from this.

People who are radical in thier beliefs/religion,seem to come off cocky and smug(know- it- alls).I've seen it with so-called christians(who aren't suppossed to act that way) and with aethist and/or others as well.To someone like me it makes me not want to listen to either side.It's kinda like trying to shove it down your throat.Like when you were a teenager,and rebelling against your parents or something!

I do appreciate those who have responded to my statements/ques.,they are helping me.Thanks again and blessing anyways to everybody!

Hambydammit for God, 2008!  

Thank you!! I feel a little better!! 

I'm quite surprised how many people are being nice about this!! I guess people see that I'm not trying to start a war,just trying to "find myself",and learn as much as I can!

That is too funny!! I was just joking,I had no idea that actually exsisted!! WOW-learn something new everyday!!

"What does an atheist believe . . . ?" is exactly the right question. I can only speak to what I believe and hope it is a good example of rational thinking. There is no church of Atheism where people congregate to learn their weekly dosages of dogma.

In fact I really like the name of this website because it is not a negative label. Who really wants to be defined as NOT this or NOT that? If we did not live in a society where the presumption is that we are theistic, we would not need to be identified as atheists

But getting back to the questions, I would like to offer my own answers to two of them--namely the question of the Big Bang and the question of what happens after death.

The Big Bang is an answer to a question with an un-established presumption. But why must we presume there was a beginning or a time when there was a nothing followed by a creation of something? I've never witnessed or experienced such a thing--every note has existed in perpetuity. Therefore, I find the more reasonable position to be the one referred to as the conservation of matter or the third law of thermodynamics or whatever way you choose to describe the fact that anything you've ever seen created was never created out of nothing. It is simply an invalid question to ask how everything was created from nothingness.

As for the basis of the Big Bang theory--the redshift observations of cosmologists--it does imply that the universe (at least the part we can observe) is expanding. But there is no reason to assume that what we see expanding now has always been expanding or that it includes the entire universe. We could be witnessing our part of the universe expanding while more distant and unseen parts are contracting. Or, just as the weather does not constantly go in only one direction (i.e. inexorable global warming, as opposed to cycles of warming and cooling), there is no reason to conclude that if we went back in time, we would find constant contraction of the entire universe to the point of a singularity which is the source of some Big Bang. I am not a professional scientist and I am definitely no great mathematician. But I still trust my own ability to reason these things out for myself and I see no reason to place Einstein or Hawking on any pedestal, simply because they love theoretical mathematics--I couldn't care less about it. So there's my two cents on the Big Bang.

To the question of what happens after death, I always like to respond with the question of what happened before birth? My empirical mind leads me to believe that the two must be pretty much the same, except that there will most likely be people left behind who will keep me in their memories after I die--at least for a brief period of time. But as I inferred in my previous arguments concerning the conservation of matter, I don't see death as anything more than a change of my existence--not an end to it, since there was no beginning either. I have always taught my children that after I die, the materials that make up my body may show up in the trees or the flowers or the stars, etc. Yes, we miss the departed, but they can be just as alive in our minds as if they were too far to go see in person and they were just never able to come to the phone or get online either. But from my point of view, I will have no more thoughts or feelings than I did before I was even conceived.

I celebrate Winter Solstice with my children, which is the real reason for the season in the first place. Similarly, Easter is a seasonal celebration--the rebirth aspect goes along with the springtime blossoms and babies, etc. And Thanksgiving is an American holiday that I take as a time to appreciate the lessons of human cooperation between peoples as imperative for our survival. No god(s) are required for any of these celebrations.

Marriage is nearly a cultural universal, although there are many forms throughout the history of civilization (polygyny, polyandry, serial monogamy, etc.). Personally, I only see marriage as a useful method of enforcing parental responsibilities until the children are raised. But I would not seek to impose my views on religious people any more than I think they should try to impose rules on those of us who do not seek the blessing of the church in the first place. Do Catholics deny the legitimacy of Mormon weddings or vice versa? I certainly hope not. But if they do, I think they are out of bounds.

I believe in free-market education as well. The public schools are a mess because they think one size should fit all. I will not adjust my arguments because of any fear that freeing up the public-education system might lead to strengthening parochial schools. But as with each of these questions, you will not find universal responses from some Atheist Doctrine Handbook.

I consider many Humanists to be Socialists. But it is not a packaged deal. Many of the first Communists were Christians. In fact the author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a Christian Socialist. So don't think that the debate between Capitalism and Communism is equivalent to the debate between Secularism and Theocracy. There are many combinations involved, and I am sure you will find a variety of answers to your questions demonstrating that one's belief system does not determine one's political system.

Hi Holley, as others before me pointed out you can't really generalize atheists other than that they don't believe in God. So I just answer for what is true in my case (I live in Germany, quite a lot of atheists here... I only have one theist in my class at school)

We do celebrate Christmas and we also celebrate Easter. Where I live xmas is more of a family get-together, with nice meals and present exchange, we don't really think of it as "oh this is such a holy-christ-related day" (given the pagan history of christmas, that belief is somewhat strange anyway). But we celebrate it and cherish it as a nice tradition (especially the present exchange).

As for the other questions you raised, for example, about morals and atheism. There are already some threads about this here in the forum, so if you look around carefully you should stumble across one sooner or later But what it boils down to, moral really is something independent from religion.

@Know1Self: I'm very nitpicky, so here go my 2 cents on the topic

Weeeell, there IS VERY good reason to assume this, because what we effectively see IS the PAST of the universe, given the limited speed of light. So what we actually see is the universe expanding over the past, well, 11 billion years! As that is as far as Hubble can see back (about 3 billion years after the big bang). Then again the redshift is not the only evidence for long-term expansion and the big bang theory. I'd say the cosmic background radiation is even more devastating evidence.

Hello and thanks,

Well, I'm pleasantly surprised that you're interested in my views.I will try and answer any questions you may have after I post all things I can think of first.....

I "say" I was raised an atheist,but now I see I should rephrase that statement.I guess the more apropriate way to describe my upbringing would be no religion,but then again when my mom wanted me to "behave"she suddenly would bring up God in a threating way.My dad was Methodist and went to church every single Sunday,but did not live a "Christian life".My parents divorced when I was young,so since I hardly saw my dad,I did not attend much church(and when I did as a young girl,I would fall asleep in the pews!).Anyway,we never went to Sunday school(that's where children are exposed to bible stories and such).So,I never knew much of the bible growing up and never understood what I did know.

 When I was a teenager,I was really bad! I look back on my life and I'm full of regrets.My mom was never there for me and my dad I hardly saw,so I pretty much did as I pleased with little parental guidance.

 I got married when I was 19,had my first child when I was 20.Divorced when I was 28;by then I had a total of 3 kids.I re-married when I was 30,and me and my husband have twins together,he also has a child from his first marriage;that's a total of 6 kids!

 Well, somewhere along those lines I got saved,baptized and "born again".Also,I've back-slidden more than once.

I've tried to be a better parent than what I was exposed to.I love my kids,but they drive me crazy too,but;they've each taught me something and I've grown up myself while raising them.I wouldn't trade anyone of them even though life is somewhat hard and  full of chaos!

 Now, taken my life history(believe me that's very condensed!) as you can see,I've had to make up my own rules along the way.I've developed my own moral/values as well.

 Since I've found this site,I've been researching/reading,and trying to soak it all up.Some of this stuff is beyond me,so if I get things totally wrong,please correct me!

Okay, so here's a few things that I  can think of and if you need more info. just let me know.....

 I do believe in evil(personal experience),but not possession(althought I do think the enemy can tempt/frighten and lie to humans ).

 I believe that when we die,we either go to heaven or hell.

I do celebrate all the major holidays,even though some originated from Pagan,I'm christian.I guess they're all "made up"holidays anyways.

 As far as school is concerned,I am currently homeschooling all 5 of my kids,because of what is going on in Americas schools.Gangs,bullying and the teaching of evolution/big bang therories.I think science is one-way here,it does not allow children to think any different other than "secularism".*I remember that when I went to school!

 I also agree,all religions should be taught in school,so kids can be exposed to more than one belief and make up thier own minds.They will eventually!

 Which brings me to evolution,I just can't believe in it (no offense),to me,it doesn't sound logical.As far as the Big Bang theory:same thing,to me- I can't accept it.Now,I must admit ,even though I 've been reading up on thermodynamics,I can't for sure say how I view this,I can't understand it enough-please feel free to explain this to me in a way that is easier to understand.

 Now,I have a slight problem with gays(although I don't think automatically is a reason to burn in hell-).The reason is,they aren't respectful to the rest of us.The way they act and their attitude towards others is offensive to me.It's almost like "look at me I'm gay".I have children to consider,and with the world like it currently is -everyone's sexuallity is in your face.Well,that goes for straight sex too(t.v./radio/media/magazines/commericals).You can't escape it-no wonder teens are so sexually active/pregnant,etc. It's almost a trend to be gay!

I'm sorry if that is offenisve to anyone,I just feel that if you want to be gay or transgender or whatever-that's private;I shouldn't have to explain that behavior to young children.

 Something should be done about child porn and child rape/abuse,in my opinion the laws are too weak in these areas.Actually,most laws in Americs are off!

Well,I hope I didn't bore you too much!Thanks for looking and I hope no one is offended,as that was not my intention!!Blessings,

  Holley

I have to say this really disturbs me to find so many professed skeptics touting the Big Bang Theory while simultaneously arguing against a God Hypothesis.  We live in a world of applied sciences--not speculative cosmology.  A true skeptic can live without any such speculative theories.  But I can tell you right now, that Holly and anyone else in her position will never be convinced by those who argue that once there was no universe (time/space), then suddenly there was a Big Bang.  That is no different than creation ex nihilo.

  Rudi says:  "Even if you believe god created the universe (perhaps by causing big bang), it still doesn’t advance you any further, because then you have to ask where the creator came from. To say that he was always there presupposes an awful lot. As logical thinking people, we cannot in good conscience base our understanding upon presuppositions of any kind."

 I would argue that it presupposes nothing to say that what is has always been and will always be, since nothing to the contrary has ever been observed.  You can chop, crush, dilute, or burn any substance you choose and in the end, all of the matter will still exist in modified form.  (Holly--that is all that is meant by the third law of thermodynamics, a.k.a. conservation of matter.)

 My best advice is simply to trust your own observations and experiences and then re-examine them in a logical manner.  For example, prayers--you may feel that you have experienced prayers being answered in the affirmative at times and then denied at others.  But you have to ask yourself if your prayers really make any difference at all or if you are simply deceiving yourself for some derived sense of comfort.  I believe this would be a much more fruitful line of inquiry.

People often confuse the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution.

The Big Bang theory does NOT explain the origin of life, simply the way that the universe formed. 

Somewhere on page 1 someone mentioned it. http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/yellow_number_five/science/6944

Take a look at this thread in the Science section, it argues exactly the point you made. 

I have done my best to explain things in plain English (as the title of this thread calls for) and to try to put myself into the shoes of a theist who is trying to understand atheism.  It is very difficult to make any progress when people inject more than what I have said or believe based on what someone else has said somewhere else and when people ignore the actual statements of simple logic as I have stated them in plain English.  (e.g. ". . . if understood as the point without which no time/space exists, then I say again, the big Bang is no different from creation ex nihilo.&quot  But if it makes you feel good, knock yourself out.  I just don't believe it is going to be very helpful to those you presumably would be trying to persuade.

Then I suggest you go back and re-read the original words, Rudi posted, to which I responded.

Clearly the argument being made by Rudi (not by me) is that mass, space, and time—with or without god—did not always exist (necessitating creation ex nihilo). My argument is the opposite. I have no problem with any version of Big Bang theory that does not magically go from nothingness to somethingness, but this is not what Rudi described. I mean no disrespect to Rudi or to Rave or to anyone else. But I know I will not be persuaded by any arguments lacking complete logical-consistency, and I would not expect anyone else to be either.

I personally find the debate about the beginning of the universe to be a red herring. No one has "the" answer to whatever happened before the moments that the evidence leads back to, and further discussion just seems like a distraction.

I'm more convinced that humans created all of this scripture to convince other humans to follow their rules, and to attempt to explain things for which they didn't yet have explanations.

Also, while it's been said before atheists only have one point in common (no belief in gods) , thought i'd share my take on holidays. (since it was asked) If you look back through the history of holidays like Easter and Christmas, you might be surprised to find how little of it is Christian in origin. Much of coming from older borrowed traditions celebrating changes in seasons (or more specifically when the days are getting longer/shorter), pagan holidays, or even from Coca Cola (look up where the current image of Santa Claus comes from.)

If you really look at the modern versions of these holidays, very little of it is related to Christianity: sharing dinners, gifts, consumerism, etc. They've already been repossessed by secularism, for the most part.

So for me, as an atheist and a freethinker, I don't put much thought into cosmology, biology, or even who's really right on Christmas.. I just spend the day with family and friends and enjoy it.  Also I can know that  my enjoyment of it doesn't need any magic at all.

I also agree with Robert Ingersoll here, when he says: